Kaz
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I would like to know what's a good rogue template for the different types/sytles of rogues that are played.
One for dual daggers, dagger/sword, or dual sword?
I haven't tried to relearn my skills yet, and I know with the incemental cost of doing it I would like to maybe do it only once.
Also keep in mind that I'm usually a solo rogue or buddy up with my hunter friend.
-Kaz
Kazyn 60 Human Rogue - Perenolde
Colgar 50 Dwarf Paladin - Perenolde
If at first you don't succeed, rez rinse repeat.
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| 08/31/05 15:21 |
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Caerbannog
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| QUOTE | I would like to know what's a good rogue template for the different types/styles of rogues that are played.
One for dual daggers, dagger/sword, or dual sword? |
I would use the same template for both dual dagger and dagger/sword. Assuming you have the dagger in the main hand (and why wouldn't you) the skills you use will be the same. The only time I would find a dagger/sword combo preferable to a dual dagger combo is if you find an offhand sword that is very fast and far superior to your off-hand dagger. Otherwise if you are going to put a sword in your main-hand go all the way to dual sword because you already lost the advantages of the dagger wield.
Templates are subjective and people argue the benefits and drawbacks of skill sets all the time so the best I can do is offer the ones I like and let you tweak them from there.
For dual dagger and dagger/sword I tend to like the 25/26/0 build.
Assassination Talents
Improved Eviscerate 3/3
Malice 5/5
Murder 2/2
Lethality 5/5
Improved Instant Poison 5/5
Vial Poisons 4/5
Cold Blood 1/1
Seal Fate 1/5
Combat Talents
Lightening Reflexes 5/5
Improved Sinister Strike 2/2
Improved Backstab 3/3
Precision 5/5
Dagger Specialization 5/5
Duel Wield Specialization 5/5
Blade Flury 1/1
Subtlety Talents
None
* You could swap Dagger Spec and increase Vile Poisons to 5/5 and Seal Fate to 5/5 or couple points to Subtlety if your planning on doing a lot of weapon switching.
** Nogame also has a dual dagger build in his Rogue Guide which is also extremely effective and well thought out.
For Dual Sword Builds I kind of like the 16/35/0 build of..
Assassination Talents
Improved Eviscerate 3/3
Malice 5/5
Improved Slice and Dice 3/3
Relentless Strikes 1/1
Vile Poisons 1/5
Combat Talents
Lightning Reflexes 5/5
Improved Sinister Strike 2/2
Deflection 5/5
Precision 5/5
Improved Evasion 2/2
Riposte 1/1
Dual Wield Spec 5/5
Blade Flury 1/1
Sword Spec 5/5
Aggression 3/3
Adrenaline Rush 1/1
*alternately dropping adrenaline rush and putting the extra point into Vile Poisons.
| QUOTE | | Also keep in mind that I'm usually a solo rogue or buddy up with my hunter friend. |
Not much will change here. Rogues are designed to do massive damage to single targets. There aren't any talents which would really change the dynamic for solo vs group play.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
Cεerbannog Level 60 Troll Rogue (Eldre'THalas)
Tathariel Level 60 Night Elf Druid (Skywall)
Talinarae Level 60 Night Elf Hunter (Skywall)
Moriquendi Level 54 Night Elf Rogue (Skywall)
Caerbannog Level 45 Gnome Mage (Skywall)
Avantia- Level 36 Human Priest (Skywall)
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| 09/05/05 15:58 |
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Kaz
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Currently I'm running with Improved Sap, which has made some solo encounters a bit easier being able to sap one take out the other then jump in on the second.
None of your template suggestions has this in it, how come you seem to stay away from the Sub spec line?
-Kaz
Kazyn 60 Human Rogue - Perenolde
Colgar 50 Dwarf Paladin - Perenolde
If at first you don't succeed, rez rinse repeat.
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| 09/09/05 10:49 |
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Caerbannog
Posts: 15
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| QUOTE | Currently I'm running with Improved Sap, which has made some solo encounters a bit easier being able to sap one take out the other then jump in on the second.
None of your template suggestions has this in it, how come you seem to stay away from the Sub spec line? |
As you have discoved Sap is an extremely usefull tool, both for Solo encounters and for grouping by being able to eliminate one mob from the fight. Improved Sap doesn't improve your chances of landing Sap nor does it increase the amount of time a MOB stayes sapped. It just adds a percentage chance (30% per rank) of returning to stealth after you Sap. Personally I have never found this ability worth the points, but that is a personal decision. For the most part I never found it very usefull for the points invested.
Murder is going to increase your chances of landing Sap which is more important than being able to return to stealth afterwards. I just never found enough utility in being able to do that to make it worth the investment of points which is why I leave it out of my templates. Usually I am sapping one and killing the other. Making sure my Sap lands on the target is a lot more important to me than returning to stealth afterwards. When in groups I am just trying to eliminate one from the fight for awhile until my group kills the others so again returning to stealth isn't a big factor for me.
Not that I don't agree that it is usefull at times and maybe more so in PvP than in PvE, but I find it to be a mostly situational skill. The amount of talent points we get is limited and IMHO I just feel there are better places to put the points. For every combat where I think "Wow it would have been nice to be able to do (insert situational ability) I am probably in a hundred combats where points elsewhere have benefited me more. For this reason I shy away from investing the few points we get into situational skills.
I have to say I have not seen many builds that have included it, but different people have diffecent styles of play and the best builds for any of us are the ones that suite our play styles best.
As far as why I stay away from the Sub spec line? I think if you are a smart and patient player you work fine without the Sub talents and use the points to increase your abilities to do higher sustained dps, crit high and crit often hit consistantly and land poisons consistantly. But again that is a play style choice.
I know Nogame delves into Sub more than me with his template in his Rogue guide, but there also he stays away from Improve Sap.
Decide on your own what works best for you though. Everyone has their opinions :)
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
Cεerbannog Level 60 Troll Rogue (Eldre'THalas)
Tathariel Level 60 Night Elf Druid (Skywall)
Talinarae Level 60 Night Elf Hunter (Skywall)
Moriquendi Level 54 Night Elf Rogue (Skywall)
Caerbannog Level 45 Gnome Mage (Skywall)
Avantia- Level 36 Human Priest (Skywall)
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| 09/13/05 09:41 |
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Bened0s
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I have a couple builds that I find might be useful, most of it is "on paper" thinking so i dont know how well they will work in the field but, here they are.
EDIT: These mainly focus on dagger/sword or DaggerX2 combos, seeing that they both mainly focus on either speed of the dagger only skills.
Build One: Assassination/Subtlety Critical Shadow
This build is more of a hybrid that leans toward high critical and combo point melee with some good stealth to make the playing field be more to your advantage. Improved Sap can help when you want to KO one of the enemies then Ambush the other or something like that, while you can still do fairly well in melee.
Assassination Talents - 30 points
Improved Eviscerate - rank 1/3
Remorseless Attacks - rank 5/5
Malice - rank 5/5
Ruthlessness - rank 3/3
Relentless Strikes - rank 1/1
Improved Instant Poison - rank 5/5
Cold Blood - rank 1/1
Improved Deadly Poison - rank 4/5
Seal Fate - rank 5/5
Subtlety Talents - 21 points
Master of Deception - rank 5/5
Elusiveness - rank 5/5
Initiative - rank 4/5
Ghostly Strike - rank 1/1
Improved Vanish - rank 3/3
Improved Sap - rank 3/3
Build Two
Assassination/Combat Poisonous Fury
This build is meant for melee and lots of poisons, focussing on instant poison for some easy extra damage with and sometimes using deadly poison for drawn out fights. You could remove some of the poison skills in favor of others though, seeing that it would be decent without them, remember i havent used it in the field, so i dont know how useful it would be.
Assassination Talents - 20 points
Remorseless Attacks - rank 2/5
Malice - rank 5/5
Ruthlessness - rank 3/3
Relentless Strikes - rank 1/1
Lethality - rank 5/5
Vile Poisons - rank 4/5
Combat Talents - 31 points
Improved Sinister Strike - rank 2/2
Lightning Reflexes - rank 3/5
Deflection - rank 5/5
Precision - rank 5/5
Improved Evasion - rank 2/2
Riposte - rank 1/1
Improved Sprint - rank 3/3
Dagger Specialization - rank 5/5
Dual Wield Specialization - rank 3/5
Blade Flurry - rank 1/1
Adrenaline Rush - rank 1/1
Well, those are my two builds, if anyone wants to comment on them i wont mind, i still need to level up my rogue anyway to find my niche.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 12/10/05 21:21 |
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