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Aku

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Joined: 09/26/2005
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GW Grind

I belive this statement to be untrue.

QUOTE

Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild.

How many of us have spent endless hours farming so we can by new armor or skills?

If you change your second profession!? You'll spend hours and hours grinding for those skill points to populate your 2nd proffesion.

The truth is that Time spent = Success in GW as in any other MMORPG.

At least there is no monthly fee.

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10/24/05 15:03

Fadra Kahla

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/18/2005
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Re: GW Grind

Hmmm...I don't know. I've spent approximately 565 hours in the last 2 months (typed /age). I've got 3 ascended characters and a 4th I just created two days ago. The most $$$ I've had so far is about 45K, but it seems to come and go so quickly with getting the armor for all my chars. I still haven't beaten the game yet because I've been stuck on farming for greens lol. I have an insane amount of time invested in this damn addicting game, yet I don't feel too successful LOL. *shrugs*

10/24/05 15:12

Balthamos

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Joined: 08/29/2005
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Re: GW Grind

I agree with you both somewhat but I have never had to grind to get weapons and armour. I have always been suffiecient in the salvaging that I had done. I think there is a grint to become a power in PvP with gathering faction and so forth. However, if you compare this to WoW where you must get to level 60. From what I know this takes a VERY VERY VERY long time, compared to other games I think there is very little grind.

Edgwalkers is coming.

10/24/05 16:21

lani

GameAmp Staff
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Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 28 pts

Re: GW Grind

Ooh, another chance for my favorite Rant :-)
I've been playing this game for about 5 months and I can't say I've had to grind. On a few occasions, I've opted to grind. Mainly to get enough stuff for seven! 15K armors. Now I really didn't need those, but I wanted them anyway.

The only real reason to grind/farm is to buy those ridiculously overpriced items that people gather by grinding.
So basically, grinding got introduced to this game by people who felt this uncontrolable urge to grind and used the produce of said grinding to raise prices :-)

As to grinding for skills, you have a bit of a point there.
Ideally you'd play with three PvE characters, together combining all 6 professions, to unlock skills for your 4th slot, a PvP character. Then you'd only need faction for those items and/or skills you didn't unlock through your PvE characters. But hardly anyone gives that much forethought to their characters or wants to play the game that way. That's the great thing about Guild Wars imo, there's so many different ways to play it, you never get tired of it :-)

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10/24/05 18:57

van_goghs_ear

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Joined: 08/31/2005
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Re: GW Grind

It depends on what you consider success in this game. If success is having fissure armor or 15k armor all dyed black with the best godly weapons, then yes, success is marked by time. If you conisder it the ability to make kick ass builds and gain a better understanding of the game, then that is incorrect, especially if you are a PVP player.

I've been playing this game since July. I've created 4 PVE characters that have all ascended, received both attribute quests and completed the fire island chain of missions. My flagship character, a ranger who has completed almost all the quests including all of the titans quests (I just need to do final assault with her and FoW).

So why did I create those other classes? Because they were the ones giving me the most grief in PVP, so I decided to build them to better understand how to destroy them. Along the way I also enjoyed using those characters in their own rights. I now have almost every skill for almost all the classes unlocked (except for ele). I used faction to unlock every rune in the game, and every weapon upgrade in the game. Now I just have a few elites to unlock.

This still takes some time, but it is quality time, where you are actually learning from your gameplay as opposed to grinding. You can then take this experience into the arenas and kick butt. I have a R/Me, a Me/R (who is now an Me/N), and up till a few weeks ago I had a Mo/W who I deleted to make room for my PVP slot after creating my necro. All the monk sup runes that character had helped me with cash flow too.

I admitt, I have subjected myself to the grind so I could by 15k armor for all my characters, but most of the time spent with them was to understand how they work. I now know what virtually every skill does in PVP when I'm facing opponents, and it makes me a very valuable ascet to my team.

If all that matters to you is being a noob with pretty armor, then yes, the game is all about the grind.

10/24/05 19:54

Cyrix

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/19/2005
Credibility: 4 pts

Re: GW Grind

Well, it depends on how you look at it. I, myself, have only grinded a couple times, but my guild is very small, most money I have come across was given to me by guildmates, and GuildWars is based on PvP (this is the personal view from most people)

The PVE portion of GW is used mostly for the Unlocking of Skills and Upgrades. In theory, you could skip PVE altogether and use faction, but where's the fun in that. PvP is based on skill of the player, more or less. Don't get me wrong, I love PVE, and for the most part, I HATE PvP, but we have to face facts, if you play casually for months, then more than likely, you'll unlock skills, runes, and upgrades. Yeah, you have nice PVE characters, but once you have all the armor, weps, and missions/quests completed, what's left? Help others? That gets boring, especially if they are inexperienced, then they will frustrate you. People turn to PvP. You'll see so many things you never expected, and you'll hone skills.

Truth is, you don't have to spend a lot of time playing to be good. You don't have to have a lot of skill either. Get in a few good groups in PvP, and you'll be Uber in no time. Nothing beats a good 12 hour session in PVE with a good group, or farming the shiverpeaks, or skill capping on Perdition Rock, but this game is made to not require skill or time. If you believe luck exists, then being lucky enough to find a good group for PvP is all you need.

Ex-Site Admin Cyrix
My GW Sin in Randoms
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10/25/05 01:18

Mann

Posts: 5
Joined: 10/04/2005
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Re: GW Grind

I actually do find that you don't have to spend time to be successful in Guild Wars.

But it DOES depend on how you view successful as.

All great posts :)

But skill does mean being successful, to me. I do not have 15k armor, nor do I have FoW. I have never found a superior rune since a north shiverpeak region. And I still am able to kick ass in the PvP arena with my warrior.

If you are talking about PvE, my arguement is this:

You set your own goals in Guild Wars. No one said that it was required to beat the game in 2 days. No, that's just one goal. You can be skillful in missions in pre-searing, and spend like 10 minutes a day working your way torwards it. Or you feel like you have to make money to compete with other people who spend time farming. But either way, it takes a certain amount of skill to do either. If you feel that you are poor, you set it that way. Gold isn't a priority in the game. Exploring and learning is.

In PvP:

You can spend 5 minutes in PvP and figure it out a bit on how things work. Depending on the situation, you can see what people do, where they go, how they move, etc. There are already pre-made builds you can use, and they wall work just fine. The thing is now, one has to use creativity to adapt to certain situations. Of course, this takes more than a few days, but this doesn't have to be time consuming.

Those who set goals for themselves, set situations as well.

10/25/05 01:41

Lord_VoxBlackRiver

Posts: 21
Joined: 09/15/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: GW Grind

Very short 2 cents here:

If you really want to be the king of the hill with the best stuff, nifty looking gear you will need to grind a bit. Now step down in the PvP arena with just decent stuff but alot of skill and tactics. You know what will happen. I've watched my wife going through the game with at least 3 different character and she doesn't know much about GW. Actually I just found out that she never captured a single elite skill! I see her venturing around all areas and very often making quests with henchies for sole support and doing well.

I thing grinding in that game is optional. But that is, as Van_gogh said, related to your definition of suceeding.

Ok, 2 cents longer than I had intended.

Be well

;)

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Intelligence is like a river: the more it's deep the more it's silent

10/25/05 01:48

Mann

Posts: 5
Joined: 10/04/2005
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Re: GW Grind

Hehe, seemed more like 3. :p

10/25/05 01:50

PsychoJOhnny

Posts: 3
Joined: 09/02/2005
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Re: GW Grind

Well, I don't have any elite skills, and I'm in Elona Reach so far :P .

JOhnny

10/25/05 02:29

Balthamos

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Joined: 08/29/2005
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Re: GW Grind

My first ever capture was at Dragon's Lair. So you are doing fine. My necro got her first elite (Blood Is Power) before she had finished the Kryta area. I chose to push myself to get this skill. Wasn't a grind though. I prefer not to grind, it takes the fun out of the game.

Edgwalkers is coming.

10/25/05 03:38

blackphoenix

Posts: 123
Joined: 09/23/2005
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Re: GW Grind

The only grind I see in the game is Thunderhead Keep.

Fight to the end of the mission - DIE!
Fight to the end of the mission - DIE!
Fight to the end of the mission - DIE!

Tell me how that isn't a grind...

J/K :D

10/25/05 08:42

Dark_Dragon_Claw

Posts: 0
Joined: 10/03/2005
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Re: GW Grind

Warning!!! The post above me will make some people laught and some people cry. ;)

Sry for bad english.

10/25/05 09:03

Lord_VoxBlackRiver

Posts: 21
Joined: 09/15/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: GW Grind

QUOTE

What about just "hard part" instead of "grind"

;)

Intelligence is like a river: the more it's deep the more it's silent

10/25/05 11:55

NecroRebel

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/11/2005
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Re: GW Grind

Alright, you all may get somewhat irritated with me, but I have gone through THK with two of my three chars, and, discounting the one time that I lagged out 5 minutes into the mission, have attempted it two times across those chars. It hasn't ever been hard for me, so I wouldn't call it a grind.

On the other hand, grinding doesn't really help anyway. Sure you get money, sure you get some items, sure you can use the items you get for money and the money you get for items, but nothing that you get in the really grind-able areas are really that good. Favorite places to farm are, of course, the minotaurs and griffons in the desert, but they don't even consistently drop max damage items, griffons and trolls in the South Shiverpeaks, but I personally have never seen too great of drops there, and Sorrow's Furnace, which is just such a challenge that it turns into more fun than a grind would be on top of having many of the green items not being that good.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that the people who sell a lot of kickass stuff aren't the people who farm constantly. They can't get stuff like that by farming, unless they find a base item and upgrade it. They have to have gone through the really high-level areas in the Fire Islands, especially to get things like Fellblades.

And on top of all that, even with just a basic collector's max weapon with no upgrades added, a skilled player can take down an unskilled player who has Fissure armor, 3 different max damage gold Fellblades, superior vigor rune, and superior absorbtion rune(s) just because of the difference in skills. None of the items in the game are so godly that they make that much of a difference, so grinding for items also makes little difference. The only reason why people might consistently get owned by farmers is because the farmers have learned how to best use their characters and how to beat anything with them.

10/25/05 12:10

neoelasticman

Posts: 21
Joined: 07/19/2005
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Re: GW Grind

The problem with Thunderhead Keep is that it requires actual thinking. Most people don't seem to like using their brains, but really that's all you need in order to succeed. I never won until I found a group that was as much into thinking things over as I am, then it was definitely not the hardest mission ever!

Garrett Gervasius R/Me20, Zaya Gervasius A/R20, Artemis Gervasius Me/N, Electric Gervasius E/Mo

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10/25/05 12:22

Lord_VoxBlackRiver

Posts: 21
Joined: 09/15/2005
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Re: GW Grind

@NecroRebel

I couldn't agree more about 100% of all you said.

Intelligence is like a river: the more it's deep the more it's silent

10/25/05 12:39

blackphoenix

Posts: 123
Joined: 09/23/2005
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Re: GW Grind

Ok, I would like to issue an official apology for turning this thread into yet another one about THK. I meant my post as a bit of humor and nothing more. ;-)

10/25/05 12:44

RoxAlot

Posts: 64
Joined: 08/21/2005
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Re: GW Grind

Theres no need to grind its just an option. Being poor dosnt mean you "need" to rob that liquer store. It is just an option.

10/25/05 12:52

van_goghs_ear

Posts: 5
Joined: 08/31/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: GW Grind

we also have to remember that collector's items quite simply rock. It is the easiest and cheapest way to get some of the best items in the game. I got my blood cesta for my necro just outside of camp rankor with +12 energy, 20% recharge on blood skills, 20% casting speed on blood skills, for the low, low price of 5 feathered avicara scalps. My monk got her smite rod for the low price of 5 stone summit badges in droks. Collector's items are exceptional.

And with PVP characters, you get to make a character that starts with the best armor in the game and the best weapons (unmodded). And you know what, it only takes 30 minutes to an hour in TA or Comp arena to unlock the mods you need for your weapon, and the runes for your armor.

Personally I always laugh when I see a ranger strut into the arenas with a stormbow. Meanwhile I have my recurve bow and shortbow equipped, both making me pure function, while his stormbow probably has a higher req than 9 on it, isn't max dmg (15>50), and probably doesn't have max mods. And if it is, it cost him 100K + 20 ectos. My bows cost me nothing except for a couple thousnand faction, and you know what, they don't glow, but they're both better for the task at hand. But then he's probably one of these people driving up the cost of Marksmanship sup runes (not realizing how worthless that is) and probably doesn't even realize how the arch of his bow is effecting his ability to hit and his refire rates.

noobs can continue to farm and grind while I'm having a blast in the arenas and in PVE with virtually no cost to me. Have you ever gone into thunderhead keep and seen a group asking for players who only have 15k armor and max mod weapons? Doubtful. It's only as important as you make yourself think it is.

10/25/05 18:20

Foreverlad

Posts: 3
Joined: 09/17/2005
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Re: GW Grind

(this isn't pointed at anyone specifically)

As stated in a few posts above, Guild Wars does not require a single day of grinding, unless you CHOOSE to.
While it'd be extremely difficult, I don't find it outside the realm of possibility to finish the game (Ring Of Fire Islands) with starter armor, weapons and skills found only through the quests and missions + rewards. You won't be tanking for any of the parties during the missions and you certainly won't be echo-nuking or keeping a Black Widow for a pet.
In that instance, you'd be completely reliant on your fellow party members to Prot you or keep you completely out of harms way.
No grinding.
You want better armor and you've been reckless with your coin? You're going to hunt.
You want an extra 30 skill points for a decent build for your new secondary profession?
You're going to farm.
You want that "Godly" +30 Hale Staff Head but don't have the 45K asking price?
Time to grind.

There is no NECESSARY mission in the game that states "Obtain a Yakslapper Added: Bonus- Pay no less than 30k for it."

The choices you make dictate the lengths you'll go to in order to fulfill your choices. You needn't change your secondary profession. You don't "deserve" a green weapon, 5 black dyes for 700 gold or a free run to Droknar's Forge.

If you think Guild Wars is a grind, try needing 785,000 xp to reach your next level. Spend 8 hours trekking across fully explored land to join your buddy's party in Nevel's Navel because there is no zoning or teleporting.

There is little variation in the quests and missions in Guild Wars. 4/5's of all the quests in the game are NOT profession-specific. You don't have to explore new regions and wait till a specific time of the month to challenge Bore-Monger to a duel to get his Aloof Axe of Alliteration. Once you do a mission or quest, it's gonna work the same way over and over which means you can race through most of them or follow the tactics you learned last time with your newest profession.

In (better-late-than-never) summation:

Grind when you want it all. Bitch when you can't have it all.

10/25/05 18:59

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