GameAmp: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

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All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

the CEO of the telco giant let slip his plans to create a "walled garden" where your freedom to surf is sacrificed at the altar of SBC profits

Im just speachless right now...

The 'Walled Garden'

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12/12/05 23:36

robabaldwin

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Re: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

Um, DOOOOOOOOOM

Wait, that's someone else's line.....

Sorry.

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12/13/05 07:46

IceMizer

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Re: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

I really dont see this as a cause for concern. What this is really targeting is the other companies who are using SBC's infra structure for nothing. Look at it this way. SBCX gives you your high speed DSL. It is their modem, lines, switching house, etc. Now you go online using their service and make a phone call using Verizon. SBC makes no money off that. They should, because it is their equipment. That is what they are angry about, not Joe comsumer. I would expect that what they really want is for competeing companies to pay to use their lines and service. If you just use SBC you should not even notice anything.

12/13/05 07:58

govtmorgue

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Re: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

I would worry about that. You see, what that means is basically they can tax the phones companies/whomever uses thier lines right. Well what happens when your phone company now has to pay more to provide for you? Nothing, all that happens is they raise the prices for you, the consumer. Then if you take SBC, or whomever owns those lines, they begin to monopolize, and can start raising the prices as they see fit. Classic case of supply and demand.

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12/13/05 08:03

IceMizer

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Re: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

You know the phone company ran much better and was much cheaper when it was a monopoly called good old Ma Bell. You will pay more anyway, things never get cheaper. The goverment thought that breaking up the Ma Bell into many smaller regional bells would bring cheaper prices and better service. Well that worked out so well that the phone system in this country is only a few small steps away from being back to a monopoly again. Competition does not drive down prices that is one of the great economic myths.

12/13/05 08:15

Transmission

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Re: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

I really dont see this as a cause for concern. What this is really targeting is the other companies who are using SBC's infra structure for nothing.

Im not concerned about SBC's FTTN (fibre-to-the-node) infrastructure, I dont like the thought of a Federal nationwide law eliminating municipally-sponsored networks.
The Preserving Innovation in Telecom Act of 2005 does scare me but it doesnt really surprise me. Local access restriction law is another step towards the elimination of consumer choices.

What does concern me is thought of SBC, Verio, NTT, CHOOSING WHAT I see while I am forced to use their service. A v-chip controlled by SBC that dramatically reduces access to content they dont profit from. It would render Ad-ware programs obsolete because thats all the net would be. Ever use AoL? Like the idea of being charged .30¢ a minute for for 'out-of-range' vistits to gameamp? or a flat $5.00 charge each time you log into CoH since the gameserver isnt on their network? And add this ON-top of the monthly charges you already pay for the 'service'.

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12/13/05 10:04

WarShadow

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Re: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

Well I don't like this idea one little bit. Bad enough paying god awful prices for a broadband connection but even the possability of paying for going to sites not on the "approved list" is just sheer crap.

While I relize that the article did not say anything about paying for sites outside of the providers domain and just said something along the lines of making it so only thier stuff works at maximum capacity on thier networks, which I can understand that idea as it would make it so people use more of thier sites so they have a greater chance to make a buck, it is not that huge of a step to start charging for access to other sites. I mean just look at how long distance is set up, back in my home town I could not call my friend that lived 3 miles away from me without getting charged for long distance but I could call my family that lived 30 miles in the other direction and it would still be a local call. All that just because my telephone providers territory stopped about halfway through town.

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12/13/05 11:00

BishopDon

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Re: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

Actually, this is not totally true. Pricing and what is charged to either customer (end user or other telcom) is determined by either the FCC and/or PUC. Each state dictates to each telcom a maximum of what they can charge for each and every service that's offered. Prior to offering a service to the public, the telcoms need to get approval from the FCC/PUC to make this service available (nothing hits the live server without being approved by each state that it's going to be offered in).

Now, as for charging other telcoms to use their service...well, this has been a big debate for years. Let's say (since their name is already out there) SBC has a service line and due to the telecom act, they have to...not maybe or can deny....they have to provide their access lines to any competitor at a very discounted rate. This said rate is usually somewhere in the ballpark of cutthroat pricing which equates to pennies on the dollar. Now, what they receive from this telcom does not even cover the costs of maintaining the network that is now being utilized by their (SBC) customers and any other telcom that is utilzing the line. Now, up until a few years ago, there were set prices of what could be charged, but recently that changed, now they can bargain for a more reasonable price that other telcoms pay for use of lines (which is still monitored by the FCC/PUC for fair practice).

Now, as for the content of which they charge or provide, now this gets real tricky. Yes, it is feasible for a company to limit what they allow to pass through their network (see AOL), and it is also feasible that said company could charge premium rates for access to extra material. However, with the issues that the telcoms are facing, I doubt seriously that they would even entertain this idea. They stand to lose a lot of customer base, market share, share holders and the bottom line...money. No one would pay, they would all leave out of spite even if the grass is not greener on the other side.

The consumer (us), will not be affected by this, however, the wholesalers would be charged for use of the network and access to the premium areas which they may be forced to pass on to their customers. This would be more of the effect as to what can/would happen before they would impose something like this onto their own consumers.

Oh, and as far as SBC's FTN or whatever they call it. I'm still reviewing this to see just how feasible this would be. I know that the Fiber is the wave of the future and it would make gaming just UBER with the speed it provides. However, if you stop at the Node and not bring it to the premisie, what is being lost in that final step? I know that Verizon (shameless plug) brings their customer's fiber directly to the premise and bypass the old copper entirely and the results are FREAKIN GREAT! They are also offering (in certain areas now but expanding) video services over that same fiber line. Now, how can SBC match this if they are stopping at the Node with Fiber, but continuing the same copper into the home? I'm still trying to dig up information on this to do more homework and comparisons.

Oh, did I mention that I actually work for a Telecommunications company?

12/13/05 11:14

WarShadow

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Re: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

I know that Verizon (shameless plug) brings their customer's fiber directly to the premise and bypass the old copper entirely and the results are FREAKIN GREAT! They are also offering (in certain areas now but expanding) video services over that same fiber line. Now, how can SBC match this if they are stopping at the Node with Fiber, but continuing the same copper into the home? I'm still trying to dig up information on this to do more homework and comparisons.

Oh, did I mention that I actually work for a Telecommunications company?

Wow really I could not tell. :p

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12/13/05 11:25

Transmission

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

Oh, and as far as SBC's FTN or whatever they call it. I'm still reviewing this to see just how feasible this would be.

More on FttN:
GPON and EPON

QUOTE

Oh, did I mention that I actually work for a Telecommunications company?

*Shakes fist in contempt at 'the man'*

QUOTE

Most Japanese consumers can get an Internet connection that’s 16 times faster than the typical American DSL line for a mere $22 per month....
... where consumers can download high-definition movies in less than five minutes.

Quote from an intresting article on National broadband policy:
Free American Broadband

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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12/13/05 12:30

jf007

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

!!!!!!!!1111oneone

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12/13/05 13:30

BishopDon

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

Thanks for the little tid-bits there Trans. I knew there would be a decrease in the speed delivered, but couldn't find anything to prove it (not even calling them personally...lol). Oh..**hides from the waving fists**

But on the issue of Japan and Europe and how they receive better deals...well, in a nutshell, they always have. They are way past the U.S. in the technological advancements. They know how to get there items to market without all of the BS redtape. Some of our biggest hangups with this is...we rely too much on foreign technology (which has to go through a rigorous waiting/testing/voting/customs procedure which then has to come before a panel to decide whether it should be sent to the voting arena to see if it can be used in the U.S.). We are definitely light years behind our neighbors when it comes to technology, pricing and making things available to the public.

12/13/05 14:21

Steampunk

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

I can agree to a certain extent with the previous post about how the technology difference between local and foriegn companies is a determining factor in the availability of low cost, good quality telecommunications services, I doubt that it's entirely the cause of the discrepancy (of course, I don't work for a telecom company, so what the hell do I know). But I think that in addition to the technoogical superiority of many foriegn countries, it also has to do with the politics of states vs. a country as a whole. Yes, I can say that other European and Asian countries have seperations along the lines of states, large counties, whatever you want to call them, but because Interent providers operate on a national scale, while providing a product that is individualized and practically monopolized in each state, you're going to get a lack of control over the companies by any form of government.

If I may, I'd like to draw a historical parable. Remember way back when, when railroads were just getting off the ground? Well, the state governments had trouble with them because they were companies based on interstate commerce, thus negating much of a state's control over the taxation. The effects on indivdual farmers, however, was devestating, because while the states monitered in-state transport, there was little control over interstate shipping, thus farmers got screwed if they wanted to sell stuff where it was needed, namely, in places where their product was in high demand.

Basically, I'm just saying that with the duopoly we have with the providers, small local companies are regulated severly by state laws while larger companies can finagle their way around the local laws. Thus smaller companies have no choice but to siphon off hardware from larger companies.

You know what broke the railroad tycoons? The Sherman anti-trust act. We need someone to go in there and bust them up, as it were. Whoever said competition doesn't lower prices may be correct, but it provides more avenues for the consumer to choose from, and thus, negates the singular power of the internet pipeline holders.

Of course, what the hell do I know about a telecommunications company.

12/13/05 21:30

tk0091

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

I hope this thread or this site doesnt get broiled down in politics. PLEASE!!!. Looking at the blog site that the article comes from, I must say that there are no real good source documentions for any thing that was reported. No way to back up anything that was said. It doesnt mean its not true, but I do prefer some sources to do my own research, not just some soundbites from a blogger. The soundbites in his article seemed to be alot like broadcast journalism. Be it CNN, FOX, MSNBC, take your pick they are all biased. I admit I dont know it just came across as a bit on the paranoid side.

but hey just cause I'm paranoid doesn't mean they arent out to get me.

I think what would probabaly happen here is what occurs with communities that have competeing power companies and telephone companies. Where I live they are regulated and are forced to allow competitors use to thier transfer stations, power lines etc. Its the price they pay for doing business. Yes the cost gets passed down to the consumer, but I have not noticed a change in my power or phoone buy switching to a different carrier.

12/14/05 01:06

BishopDon

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

Nah, we won't get political...or at least I won't...lol. However, some things should be known as to how this industry works. Believe it or not, in the Telecom industry, it's the big businesses that shoulder the greater finincial burden and the little guys that get all the tax breaks and incentives (this is how they aim to keep balance of power). If anyone knows why Ma Bell was broken up and what the aim of that was, it spells it out clearly. Any other sector may operate differently, but in the Telecom arena, the bigger you are, the more hoops you have to jump through to do business.

For instance, SBC just purchased AT&T. In order to complete this deal, they needed to get the OK from the FCC, the Department of Justice and from each state PUC that they currently and will potentially do business in. If any one of those entities feel they should not do business, then the whole entire deal is washed. Now, the catch, each state or entity may place restrictions on how the merger will take place. For instance, Florida may tell them that they have to provide all customers in that state a special price for X amount of years or they may be told, due to duplication and overlapping interests that they have to sell off a portion of their current business in order to not have a monopolistic hold in a certain state.

I won't say that this is political, however, the telecom industry is one of the heaviest regulated industries that i've seen. You literally have to get permission to blow your nose at times and the second request may be denied.

12/14/05 08:14

Transmission

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

Looking at the blog site that the article comes from, I must say that there are no real good source documentions for any thing that was reported.

-not mentioned: (what sparked this thread)

SBC To Acquire AT&T ~ATT

SBC and AT&T Acquisition Close for $16 Billion ~SBC

-mentioned:
Businessweek interviews Edward Whitacre, CEO of SBC ~Businessweek

Other sources (with links) in the article include:
~The Free Press (where the author is the campaign director)
~Publicknowledge.org
~Progress & Freedom Foundation

QUOTE

but hey just cause I\'m paranoid doesn\'t mean they arent out to get me.

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12/14/05 08:45

WarShadow

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

Well political I am not but I do like to vent and this was a good place but now I am done.

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12/14/05 09:37

tk0091

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

Transmission....LOL...I love it see I knew they were out to get me. Great post and pic. The last time something like that happened was when I was at the mall. I went to the large map of the mall and right there on the map it said "you are here." How'd they know that?

As far as a monoply or anysuch thing that could or may happen with broadband. Im sure some regulations will come into play. Such has where I live Verizon has all the infrastructure for telephone lines, the smaller companies that do business have to use the existing lines and to avoid unessacary construction and crossing lines they pay "rent" to use verizons lines, same with the power lines.

12/14/05 10:28

Transmission

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

How'd they know that?

I thought you knew...

http://www.fbi.gov/TK0091

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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12/14/05 11:13

thejeni

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

How'd they know that?

I thought you knew...

http://www.fbi.gov/TK0091

does transmission scare anyone else sometimes?

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12/14/05 20:11

WarShadow

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

He does not scare me just makes me a hair uneasy.

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12/15/05 00:21

Transmission

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

QUOTE

does transmission scare anyone else sometimes?

QUOTE

He does not scare me just makes me a hair uneasy.

ME??

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12/15/05 01:30

LordStarwolf

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RE: All Your Broadband Are Belong To Us

Tranmission doesn't scare me. I always knew they were out to get me and watching everything I do. Luckily I'm an angel (sic).

Anyway just decided I had to respond to IceMizer's first post. First of all competing companies already pay a fee to cross into other phone companies territory, or at least they claim to and charge the consumer for it. I own an IT support company and if we pull a T1 from Valor territory (a smaller local phone conglomerate) into SBC territory they get charged a tarrif, controlled by the FCC, to hook up to SBC, then pass that on to the consumer. I've talked to Valor and SBC both about it and seen the customer bills. It's there and it's not cheap. I've even routed a T1 fron Valor territory to another valor territory and they still got charged by SBC for the intervening area between them, and it drove the consumers price up by 50%, since they charge per mile.

So SBC is already getting paid for this as well as getting paid for every T1, T3, OC3, phone line, DSL line and everything else. Even the cable companies pay SBC for lines. How do you think they connect to the internet backbone when SBC owns the internet backbone? Everything connected to the internet connects to SBC (ATT) or verizon backbones and every single one of those connections gets paid to the respective carrier. They are already paid many times over for these connections. You pay for your connection, be it DSL or Cable. Even cable gets paid to ATT when the cable companies connection hits the backbone. Then whoever hosts a website, like gameamp, pays for there connection, which eventually connects to the bacbone and they get a fee for that. And the carriers, like Verizon and ATT, do charge each other tarrifs for connecting to each other. Now tell me, after all that, how they are getting jipped or ripped off for connecting from one network to another?

Do you realize how much a cable company, or other large ISP other than the bells, pays for an OC12 connection to ATT for their backbone connection? It's on the order of $150, 000 a month. Yes I said a month. Thats almost 2 million dollars a year. And they ahve to do that in every city they have service. And thats just one company. Now, you think they don't get paid for their connections? They made 10 billion dollars in the second quarter of 05 alone. Thats only three months of revenues. Yeah, they are getting paid for their services. They should just stop being greedy, especially when it's at our expense.

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