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Fates Dark Hand
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Ok, I have sat here and watched strategy after strategy be nerfed, and started thinking, why haven't they nerfed rangers yet? I mean it is one of the very few professions that has yet to be ruined. Do you think they will eventually nerf traps and suck?
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| 12/13/05 18:24 |
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DAMAGE_CONTROL
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what do you mean? UW trapping? cause its easy to find away around that. trap heavy or bring more trappers
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| 12/13/05 18:28 |
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supersayaingoku
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well they have made it where the monsters now run from the traps becuase they think its AOE damage so they run. but i think theres not much to nerf on a ranger if they waqnted to stop some of the ranger builds they would have to completly redo all the ranger skills as theres are just so many u can change and still do the same effect
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| 12/13/05 18:30 |
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NecroRebel
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I have yet to see any tactic rendered useless, so I don't know what you're talking about there, but Rangers have been changed in many updates. Basically, initially except for having Expertise Rangers were relatively underpowered. Anet has increased the power of many traps over time and other skills have been manipulated as well. Now Rangers are at the same level as everyone else is, but no totally broken tactics have been made that Anet can fairly eliminate.
For example, there are really only a few types of rangers out there, including trappers, interrupters, debilitators, and beastmasters. Interrupters, debilitators, and beastmasters really require a team build to work well because they're fairly specialized. Trappers, though, are used to solo the Underworld, among some other places, because they can use traps to take out large numbers of enemies at once by stacking traps. Now, Anet COULD reduce the power of the traps, but that would weaken the Ranger class too much, or they could make enemies avoid traps which simply isn't fair since humans can't really avoid traps once they have been set. So, they have to leave them as is.
Rangers may or may not be "nerfed" as you put it, but even if they are, all types of rangers will still be used.
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| 12/13/05 18:32 |
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TalonWoJ
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I do not think they would nerf traps they are already easily interrupted and many stances that help put them down dont last long or cost energy each time it would be broken.
As far as UW FoW etc as said above they run from the AoE of flame and Dust.
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| 12/13/05 18:32 |
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DAMAGE_CONTROL
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i agree completely Goku +
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| 12/13/05 18:33 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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ANet doesn't just nerf things because they want to they do it because people overuse certain things like builds or the builds are easy to exploit or hack. Unless someone finds a way to make an invince ranger like the old invince monk then there is no reason for them to nerf rangers as of now. Also, in theory any class (even mesmers. Yes i said Mesmers) can solo UW or FoW if the appropriate build is discovered and to take away that ability from one class would mean lowering the usefullness of a class. If anything ANet might INCREASE the abilities of mesmers to include specific PVE only skills to increase their chances of being in a group. Also in PVP (GVG and HOH included) there is no one class. Even in the cheap builds such as IWAY no class exists for a single purpose but rather exists for support of the other classes so if they nerf rangers then their ability to support, not their ability to solo, is what will suffer the most and what would be the point of having an overall weak and useless class in the game?
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| 12/13/05 18:42 |
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cswella
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**Anet, DON'T READ THIS**
**Don't tell Anet this**
If they wanted to nerf Rangers, they'd do the same thing that they did to spirits. you can't have more than one type of trap in an area. That or increase the recharge time to 90 secs.
Panda Points x 7
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| 12/13/05 18:44 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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| QUOTE | | If they wanted to nerf Rangers, they'd do the same thing that they did to spirits. you can't have more than one type of trap in an area. That or increase the recharge time to 90 secs. |
Like i said in the above post that would decrease the ability for the ranger to support the team in any form of pvp and then people wouldnt use the ranger at all since then only one area can be trapped at a time reducing the overall strategy that a group can use in Pvp. through traps a group can virtually seal off an area for a time or guard a weaker or necessary character against warriors and whatnot. with only one trap at a time a ranger would only be usefull if they ran in during a fight, trapped the area, backed off, repeated. But with traps so easy to interrupt that strategy might fail quickly making the ranger worthless for support.
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| 12/13/05 18:47 |
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Fates Dark Hand
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Yeah, I guess it would be harder to nerf trapping than I thought, but, I\'m still worried that they might reduce the damage of traps, and make them go away after a shorther period of time. Thanks for the opinions everyone.:P
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| 12/13/05 18:54 |
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lani
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Ya know, I don't really see why they would want to 'nerf' Rangers at this point.
Let's look at the 'big' nerfs shall we?
1) They balanced the Air Elementalists due to those being overbalanced in HoH teams. All the Elementalist players screamed bloody murder at that time.
2) Spirit spam nerf. Again something that was overpowering in HoH, it got nerfed. Rangers were considered to have lost their one use in the entire game, as some claimed at that point.
3) AoE/55 monk build nerf. This was twofold, they upgraded the AI and made Solo-farming in UW (nigh to) impossible. Like ArenaNet said, UW was not ment to be 'solo-able'. This was the end of the world for a lot of people who are now thankfully still with us.
Having summarized this I see no reason why Rangers would need to be nerfed right now. Traps (which this seems to be all about) aren't overpowering in HoH except against teams that play with their eyes closed. I mean they didn't nerf IWAY because it doesn't hold out in the higher maps of HoH or GvG battles, and that appears to be more of a pain than trapper teams in PvP. Trapper teams in UW aren't solo, so that's no reason either.
Really, I can't see why.
Now maybe, if ArenaNet were a group of people who think it fun to nerf something every month, just for nerfing's sake, then maybe they would nerf something, but I doubt that would be Rangers. Besides, they're not looking for something to nerf for the fun of it, they're looking for imbalancing trends in the game and will do their best to face those issues. Somethimes that means nerfing, sometimes it means buffing something. Case in point Rangers/Traps and Necro spells were actually buffed during some of this summer's updates. Nobody ever screams bloody murder about those updates for some reason :-)
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| 12/13/05 19:06 |
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Krypper
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Let me start out by saying I love rangers...I really do. 90% of my time in-game (at least) is on my ranger.
That being said, I really wouldnt mind if they nicked traps a bit...just enough to make it necessary to bring another ranger to the Underworld with the team on a run. That would tick people off a bit, but that's fine with me.
Although, after a bit of playing around, I really do think that ANet needs to give pets a little more of a boost. The extra 20 AR from a past update was nice, but I have yet to find a decent Beastmaster build.
No class is truly overpowered. Some people think that Warriors have the advantage (farming, running, etc.), but to offset that, lots of people make warriors and there's almost always an excess of them. Rangers are simply versatile, having a more complicated set of skills to explore and combine. Any character that focuses totally on one style of play should exceed at it, much like an axe warrior will have a massive advantage over a warrior split between Sword and Axe at the same time.
Basically, it takes skill to use a ranger, and a skilled player or set of players can make any profession look superior. What gets me going is clone builds (trappers all the same, IWay, etc.). Once a style of play (or build, if you prefer) is brought to the point where an idiot can use it effectively, it should be nerfed until it once again requires intelligence to use.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 12/13/05 19:16 |
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ScorpDeception63
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Well, rangers are nice, there arent a ton of stuff that they could nerf for em, the traps are good but not godly, but maybe some of the shots or something, the other professions like monk have had some insta-kill or massa-kill skills that they didnt know people would use them for. I don't know but i guess their alright as they are.
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| 12/13/05 19:31 |
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loki714
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i hope they dont nerf the poor rangers! i just started getting into my ranger, got him trapping sand drakes outside of elona reach, helped him lvl from 17-19 today...woohoo
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| 12/13/05 19:35 |
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DexAholic
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| QUOTE | | Case in point Rangers/Traps and Necro spells were actually buffed during some of this summer's updates. Nobody ever screams bloody murder about those updates for some reason :-) |
Well said, Lani. By the way, Lani, you have an awful lot of credibility. Has anyone bothered to check to make sure that you're not using some kind of exploit in the credibility system?
=P
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| 12/13/05 19:55 |
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Botchu
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My only peeve with rangers is when they INTERRUPT ME! I think they should at least take the recharge time up a little. Of course, I've never played an interrupt ranger, so I wouldn't know how entertaining annoying someone like that is, but I still don't like it.
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| 12/13/05 20:18 |
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ttn_2005
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I don\'t play PvP but to avoid being interrupted in PvE, you can:
1. use stances and spells that improve your chance of evading or blocking attacks (Bonetti\'s Defense, Aegis, Lightning Reflex,...) 75% chance of evading is good enough in most cases.
2. if you\'re a Mesmer primary, you can increase your rank in Fast Casting. This costs attribute points, but it\'s the best.
3. Use spell with short casting time (Reversal of Fortune,...) Some spells can be casted so fast, they\'re almost impossible to interrupt.
4. you can go with decoy (a useless spell), once it is interrupted, you can cast the spell you want. This method can be used against monsters but not very effective against other players since interrupt rangers often carry more than one (ie. Distracting Shot and Savage Shot) and they usually look at the spells first before they interrupt them.
I can't think of anything else right now, but there are probably quite a few more things you can do.
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| 12/13/05 21:00 |
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TarisDale
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| QUOTE | My only peeve with rangers is when they INTERRUPT ME! I think they should at least take the recharge time up a little. Of course, I've never played an interrupt ranger, so I wouldn't know how entertaining annoying someone like that is, but I still don't like it.
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Well my main character spends most of his time as an interupt ranger and "yes" those interupts have been "nurfed" as you would say it!
Now a ranger has to think and time well those interupts as they do not go off right away! Some interupts have 1-2sec wait time before they fire off, this has almost stopped the interupt of the fast skills.
I watch and wait for combo skill use in an enemy (as most people and AI use combo sets alot), then when I see a combo happening I now have to time when I interupt.
Being a r/mes I also have a mes interupt sig but the recharge on that is large.
So if you are being interupted alot, stop and think, are you using the same combo over and over again. If you dont change attack combo's or the order they are in then you are asking for trouble. If I can work out an enemies combo sets then the computer (which can think alot faster than me) will do it better.
So,,
For all those who missed it the ranger has already had some skills "nurfed" as you would say it, or powered down.
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| 12/15/05 08:31 |
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lani
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| QUOTE |
Well said, Lani. By the way, Lani, you have an awful lot of credibility. Has anyone bothered to check to make sure that you're not using some kind of exploit in the credibility system?
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You mean like abusing the "award up to 300 credibility to any member per page load" feature I've got at my disposal as site manager? :-)
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| 12/15/05 08:55 |
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Festival Bobcats
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Rangers have already been screwed over or "nerfed" of an extremely good skill. Trapping. You think hey, rangers sure are low in damage, so let's trap to get through places and actually GET IN TO GROUPS because I can deal damage now. Oh wait, monsters run from the traps now! Dandy!
So ya, rangers have already been stripped of a skill.
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| 12/15/05 09:02 |
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TarisDale
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| QUOTE | Rangers have already been screwed over or "nerfed" of an extremely good skill. Trapping. You think hey, rangers sure are low in damage, so let's trap to get through places and actually GET IN TO GROUPS because I can deal damage now. Oh wait, monsters run from the traps now! Dandy!
So ya, rangers have already been stripped of a skill. |
Monsters run from traps??? did I miss something here :O
I still use traps now n then and as yet they seem to work the same as before.
1, I lay the trap
2, someone agros the enemy
3, they come to us
4, bingo, trap goes off
Traps are also good to set around flighty casters to make them feel defended ;)
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| 12/15/05 09:16 |
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lani
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Traps are different from the AoE spells the Elementalists and Smiters use in that they'll affect the monster/player upon going off. So even if they do run, that doesn't in anyway affect the effectiveness of the Traps. I'd actually say this strengthens them because now a burning or crippled or wounded monster will spend valueable beating-up-players time running away from something there's no escaping from. :-)
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| 12/15/05 09:21 |
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quazi
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | Rangers have already been screwed over or \"nerfed\" of an extremely good skill. Trapping. You think hey, rangers sure are low in damage, so let's trap to get through places and actually GET IN TO GROUPS because I can deal damage now. Oh wait, monsters run from the traps now! Dandy!
So ya, rangers have already been stripped of a skill. |
Monsters run from traps??? did I miss something here :O
I still use traps now n then and as yet they seem to work the same as before.
1, I lay the trap
2, someone agros the enemy
3, they come to us
4, bingo, trap goes off
Traps are also good to set around flighty casters to make them feel defended ;) |
He\'s talking about the fact that since flame and dust are aoe elemental dmg now, the monster AI flees from it. However, if you go to UW in a trap group, and do it right, the monster will never leave your trap area alive.
As far as interrupt skills and their \"cast\" time, i only notice delay in shooting when not using an IAS skill. If I i have tigers fury or lightning reflexes, the interrupts fire almost instantly.
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| 12/15/05 11:04 |
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quazi
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sry about the double post. not sure why it did that. might have been because i alt-tab'ed back over to AutoCAD while it was purging a file to be emailed.
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| 12/15/05 11:18 |
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TarisDale
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| QUOTE | He's talking about the fact that since flame and dust are aoe elemental dmg now, the monster AI flees from it. However, if you go to UW in a trap group, and do it right, the monster will never leave your trap area alive.
As far as interrupt skills and their "cast" time, i only notice delay in shooting when not using an IAS skill. If I i have tigers fury or lightning reflexes, the interrupts fire almost instantly. |
Thanks,, Thats why I asked if I missed something, thanks for the trap info. Also with "IAS" could you throw a vowl in and help me out please :) having a lack of sleep week so hvaing troubles nutting it out myself.
Edit = lack of sleepzzz also makez yu spellink go out the window :O
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 12/15/05 15:26 |
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lani
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Ok, now I get it a bit more too. They'll run from Flame trap even though they can't outrun the "being on fire" bit. That would pose a problem if they don't go onto the next trap due to that. I think you can still work around that. They seem to need about 3 to 5 seconds to make up their minds to run and if you stack several Traps on each other, that'd set them off almost instantaneously.
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| 12/15/05 15:39 |
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quazi
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | He's talking about the fact that since flame and dust are aoe elemental dmg now, the monster AI flees from it. However, if you go to UW in a trap group, and do it right, the monster will never leave your trap area alive.
As far as interrupt skills and their "cast" time, i only notice delay in shooting when not using an IAS skill. If I i have tigers fury or lightning reflexes, the interrupts fire almost instantly. |
Thanks,, Thats why I asked if I missed something, thanks for the trap info. Also with "IAS" could you throw a vowl in and help me out please :) having a lack of sleep week so hvaing troubles nutting it out myself.
Edit = lack of sleepzzz also makez yu spellink go out the window :O |
IAS = increased attack speed, its derived from Diablo days. So an IAS skill is any skill that makes you atk faster. if no one has noticed, atking cast times are directly related to your refire rate, for bow users. Ive done some testing in the past. even if the skill says .5 seconds cast time, a longbow takes longer than a shortbow. Same reasoning goes for the increased attack speed skills, they reduce the cast time of atk skills cast while in under IAS conditions.
Also, yes, it does look like most creatures take a few seconds for their puny AI brains to figure out wheter to run or fight after having a dust or flame trap sprung on them. Refer to what i said earlier, its the exact reason why stacking traps still works, because by the time the AI realises it should run, its already too late, and 40+ traps have gone off (assuming UW trap team).
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| 12/15/05 16:07 |
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dragoniusx
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i can still remember the time when rangers wherent accepted in hardly any groups during missions and quests =/ that really sucked...
they where considered "irrelevant" and "not worth having in a team". now look at how many rangers u got running arround since the UW trapping build and Tombs Ranger spike team, the number of rangers these days have gone through the roof.
i too see no reason why to nerf the interuption skills...
look at what anet did:
Update - Thursday, September 29:
# Debilitating Shot – Increased recharge to 10 seconds.
# Distracting Shot – Added a delay after skill is used before another can be used.
# Savage Shot – Added a delay after skill is used before another can be used.
# Concussion Shot – Added a delay after skill is used before another can be used.
# Punishing Shot – Added a delay after skill is used before another can be used.
found here: Anet Game Update Archive
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| 12/15/05 16:14 |
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dragoniusx
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| QUOTE | **Anet, DON'T READ THIS**
**Don't tell Anet this**
If they wanted to nerf Rangers, they'd do the same thing that they did to spirits. you can't have more than one type of trap in an area. That or increase the recharge time to 90 secs. |
LOOOOL haha... dw (dont worry) ;) im sure anet wouldnt read that... besides :P , they only got half their company viewing this forum.
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| 12/15/05 16:19 |
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dragoniusx
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Conserning the UW trapping nerf... why dont they just add a minimum of players which can enter, i.e: u need at least 6 players to enter UW.. wont that just put an end to all this UW farming
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| 12/15/05 16:26 |
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