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Julia Heartilly

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Dmg reduction proven to be global!

OK, since I'm getting tired of all the people claiming damage reduction only applies to the piece of armor it's on and even more of the fact they manage to convince others of that I decided to conduct a test today proving that dmg reduction is a global effect.

I have heard multiple difference views on this matter, such as people saying dmg reduction from both armor and runes only apply to the piece of armor it's on or people claiming because armor is something physical it's dmg reduction is not global but that of runes is because it's something magical applying to the player or whatever, but here's the truth...

I started off by buying myself some additional gauntlets, I have conducted this test by registering the damage I received while switching between the following sets of gauntles:
1) Glads Gauntlets (clean)
2) Glads Gauntlets (minor abs)
3) Knights Gauntlets (clean)
4) Knights Gauntlets (sup abs)
From here on I will refer to these gauntlets as 'set X' where X is the number mentioned in this list.

Armor

First I went to the Frost Wurm right in front of the 'wurmtunnel' in Lornar's Pass outside Beacon's Perch which is pretty much at the start of the Forgerun.
Why I chose this Frost Wurm? Simple, because their action of rising out of the ground hits you for the exact same damage always.

First I let him knock me down 20 times using set 1 and registered the damage taken, it was 17 every time.
See the following screenshot to confirm:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/mircscipts/gwim...resultsscr1.jpg

Next I switched to set 2 and repeated the process, again 17 dmg every time.
See the following screenshot to confirm:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/mircscipts/gwim...resultsscr2.jpg

Switched to set 3, 15 dmg.
See the following screenshot to confirm:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/mircscipts/gwim...resultsscr3.jpg

Switched to set 4, 15 dmg.
See the following screenshot to confirm:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/mircscipts/gwim...resultsscr4.jpg

See the appendix for an overview of these results.

So what can we conclude from this?
1) The dmg reduction from Knights armor is 2 because that is the reduction in dmg I received when I switched from Glads to Knights.
2) The dmg reduction of Knights armor ALWAYS applies, it is global.
This is proven by the fact the fact the dmg received with Knights Gauntlets was steady and not because it never applied because else there would've been no difference with the dmg received using Glads Gauntlets which is proven untrue by the above.
3) The description of runes, as anything, is to be taken very precisely, it reduced ATTACK dmg, the dmg coming from the action considered an 'attack' by the game which a rising Frost Wurm is not, hence the rune does nothing here.

Runes

So now we know we need to test runes with actual attack damage, let's define this first.

What does the game consider an 'attack'? What dmg do abs runes reduce?
This exists of two types of actions:
1) The standard attack action, any plain hit by a creature.
2) Attack skills.

That said, let's get to the actual test.
For this one I went to see a creature I'm sure all of us know, he's right outside Ascalon City, very close and he's called 'Whiptail Devourer'.
Since he does very little damage I only used sets 1 and 2 on this test.
After all, the armor's already proven to be global, we're just here for the abs rune.

This Devourer uses 'Called Shot' a lot, but I disregarded that and counted only his normal attacks.
I registered the dmg of 30 of his hits with set 1 and 30 hits with set 2.

Here are the resuts:

So, let's have a look at this.
The Devourer does pretty steady dmg as you see.
Considering those who claim the dmg reduction from abs runes only applies to dmg on the piece of armor they're on are right, then there should only be a 12,5% chance that the dmg of a hit would be reduced by 1 and in 87% of these cases (10,9% chance overall) end up as 0.
This means out of 30 hits, theoretically 3 should do 0 dmg, however 29 do.

That said, I think it's safe to conclude the dmg reduction from runes aswell is global.

25-01-'06 18:45 GMT - Update:

In the initial armor damage reduction test with Frost Wurms above I proved the damage reducion of Knights armor was 2 and indeed always applied.
However blackphoenix pointed out to me this did not have to mean the damage reduction from Knights armor is global, it could also mean the damage itself is global meaning action of rising out of the ground as the Frost Wurm does could have impact on every bodypart thus also always hitting the piece of Knights armor.

Since I am currently preparing a more precise test on the matter of armor damage reduction I figured I'd do another minor test first and add the results here.

What I did was I went back to the Whiptail Devourer I used in my test on abs rune damage reduction.
First I took off and put back pieces of my armor randomly and registered the damage received while doing so, this way I ensured the Devourer does indeed hit only one part of your body and that which bodypart it is is indeed totally random.

I took off all armor and equipment and registered the damage over 30 hits, then I put on clean Knights Gauntlets and repeated the process.
During the second registration of damage sometimes the damage was so much lower that it was most obvious the Devourer hit me directly on the Gauntlets, that damage and the damage from any attack skills was again disregarded so that I could get a clear idea if the damage reduction bonus on the gauntlets affected the received damage over my entire body.

Here are the results:

As you see, again only one conclusion can be made, armor damage reduction is global...

Overall conclusion:
Damage reduction, be it from armor or absorption runes, is GLOBAL!

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/25/06 07:19

Seeker821

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

Thank you for scientifically testing this and posting your results for all to see (+cred to you!)

This has been proving something that I've been fairly sure of for a while.

L

01/25/06 07:26

kcinshin

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

This is awesome. Now I am no longer confused. Thank you soooo much!

01/25/06 07:31

Ancients Divine One

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

Yeah I actually tried that with boots on my warrior, but I never got around to doing the runes.
Nice work though, you deserve some cred for that.

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01/25/06 07:35

Jamnog

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

i predict this thread will go to about 4 pages nice test
in my efforts to link threads of a similar nature
http://www.gameamp.com/forum/showTopic/22874.php

edit and there is this thread from ages ago http://guildwars.gameamp.com/forum/showTopic/20269.php

like the thread starter says its been looked into allot more than this and normally the conclusion is the same runes dont stack abs runes are global the inherrant effect given by armor that has abs is global a few people will say that inherrant stacks. where the term global has been used universal has also been used.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/25/06 07:43

chucknorris

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

the ? i have is it stacking example full knights or 1 knighs 1 ascolon or is tus counred as 1 absrd and uf you have full knights or ascolon is it more or the same as having just 1 piece each, like my runnin set is ascolon helm knights boots and rest glad with major absd on boots. plus the 2 from my shield. thx for figuring out all this so far though big help

01/25/06 07:50

blackphoenix

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

I'm not entirely convinced that damage reduction is global for one piece of armor. It is clear that the armor considers the wurm knock down an attack. But to what part of the body? The only way I could explain it is that the damage from it's knock down effects all locations. Given that, I am interested to see what happens if you used two pieces of knights armor. If my theory is correct, in essence the knock down damage from the wurm should be reduced by another 2 hp.

The only other ways to say it would be that either, each knock down received was locational to the gauntlets only, or else you are right. I'm leanin toward not enough evidence and here is why:

QUOTE

Weapons & Armor - Frequently Asked Questions

How does armor protect my character?

Each piece of armor protects a specific area of the body, so a full set of armor works together to protect your hero. For example, if your Monk wears a Monk Raiment with armor 30 and Monk Pants with armor 15, a hit to the chest region would cause less damage than the same hit to the legs.

QUOTE

Do runes "stack"?

Runes do not stack, i.e., multiple runes of the same type can't be used together for additional benefit.

Does armor stack?

Not in the strictest sense of the word. Each piece of armor protects a specific area of the body, so a full set of armor works together to protect your character. The benefit of any footwear only applies to the feet, and that of any chest piece only to the chest area. Armor with extra damage-absorption will absorb damage from attacks to a specific area of the body, so in that sense, it doesn't stack. Armor with a plus to Energy, on the other hand, will increase your Energy by the stated amount for each piece of armor, e.g., if your helm, boots, and pauldron all give +5 Energy, your total benefit is +15 Energy.

So, according to ANet:

QUOTE

Each piece of armor protects a specific area of the body, so a full set of armor works together to protect your character.

QUOTE

Armor with extra damage-absorption will absorb damage from attacks to a specific area of the body, so in that sense, it doesn't stack.

So, for an attack to the chest, you would not get any damage reduction with knights gauntlets. However, a hit that damaged both the chest and the gauntlets, you would see that damage reduction. That is what I am saying above, that the wurm attacks must be a full body hit, and therefore if you had knights chest armor and gloves, in theory, it should reduce the damage by 4 instead of just 2. I have no idea why the runes did not figure into the damage.

As for the devourer, that only proves true that the absorbtion runes must be global (i.e. it works like a force field, reducing damage from attacks no matter where it hits on your body).

So, you may call me an ANet zealot if you like, but I imagine that the people who made the game knew what they were talkin about when they said:

QUOTE

Armor with extra damage-absorption will absorb damage from attacks to a specific area of the body

I'm not saying you ARE wrong, just that you have not done enough testing to prove what you are saying is more correct than what ANet says on their site.

Here is the link to where I got the info and +cred anyway for actually putting forth the effort. :)

01/25/06 08:12

Jamnog

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

ok so inherrant stacks against runes but not against other inherrant and inherrant is supposed to be local... but tests time and time again show runes abs to be global :/

sneaky edit:

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/25/06 08:22

Julia Heartilly

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

QUOTE

The only way I could explain it is that the damage from it's knock down effects all locations.

Ok, you got a point there.

Working on figuring that out as you read this and once I get any results you'll know even if I have to prove myself wrong. :P

I'll be back. ^^ :D

01/25/06 09:02

Seth Oneil

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

just a lil tid bitonthe armor.

I'm Lazy so I didn't feel like getting a headpiece for my monk, so I kept the ascalon tattoo for my head for quite some time. I then went up against some air eles. These attacks come from the air (durr) and land on your head. Needless to say I lost upwards of 50% health per attack, which I thought was due to a lack of armor on my head.

I then Grabbed a new head piece and found the same monster and noticed a large difference in the amount of damage I took. It was drastically improved, to the point where I was convinced the damage I was taking was coming through my head piece.

As hard as it is, I think you will need to try and find where locational damage occurs. (what monsters hit where) and then try it out. keeping in mind that one theory is that the chest piece takes 37% of the damage because most attacks go for the chest piece. As well as the theory that shorter characters, when fighting taller characters, will take damage through the headpiece a little more that the chest.

It's just a Theory I'm not saying it's mine, but I agree with Pheonix in the fact that Anet wouldn't lie and damage is locational. Even though it could be said clearer.[/QUOTE][/H1][/U]

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01/25/06 09:35

Julia Heartilly

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

I thought of a way to check again if the damage reduction applies to damage received elsewhere on the body and this time ruling out the possibility of global damage from the creature instead of global damage reduction however it's gonna take some time, so I'll keep you posted.

01/25/06 09:58

Himself

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

So answer the ultimate question: Platemail or knights?

01/25/06 10:15

Hammerite Rozsda

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

if u want to be good, use platemail or gladiators.

i tested myself full knights vs full plate vs full glads (all 3 set with ascalon helm) and against physdical dmg knights is the worst, plate is middle, glad is best.

against elem dmg glad is worse, kinght is 2nd, plate is best.

so in general plate is best for both type of dmg!!

knight sux sadly dont get fooled by the reduce dmg :(

(edit, and yes, the reduce damage of ascalon helm/knight stuff thing IS global, also tested!)

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/25/06 10:22

Himself

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

Wish i knew this b4 i splashed out on my fissure armor.Also does superior absortion stack cause its doesnt say anything in the armor box.

01/25/06 10:30

Nihil Zarathustra

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

i feel like stirring up a little controversy so....

QUOTE

Does armor stack?

Not in the strictest sense of the word. Each piece of armor protects a specific area of the body, so a full set of armor works together to protect your character. The benefit of any footwear only applies to the feet, and that of any chest piece only to the chest area. Armor with extra damage-absorption will absorb damage from attacks to a specific area of the body, so in that sense, it doesn't stack. Armor with a plus to Energy, on the other hand, will increase your Energy by the stated amount for each piece of armor, e.g., if your helm, boots, and pauldron all give +5 Energy, your total benefit is +15 Energy.

taken from guildwars.com...

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01/25/06 10:33

Hammerite Rozsda

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

QUOTE

Wish i knew this b4 i splashed out on my fissure armor.Also does superior absortion stack cause its doesnt say anything in the armor box.

abs rune is not global however, so put it on your chest piece. YES it stacks with the reduce damage effect of ascalon helm/knight stuff, but not with other abs rune.

simple:

abs+reduce item (OK)

abs+abs (NOT OK - wont make it double abs)

reduce+reduce (NOT OK - wont make it double reduce)

also, to use the abs rune for maximum effekt put it in chest piece cuz thats where u get hit most often, HOWEVER, use the reduce damage item in either helmet or boots because they tend to be lower armor than those of not with such effect yet the reduce is global so you will benefit from it.

01/25/06 10:40

Himself

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

K Merci beacoup

01/25/06 10:41

Julia Heartilly

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

QUOTE

abs rune is not global however

You might wanna read the main post.

Armor is an issue atm I'm looking further into that but the reduction from abs runes is definitely a global effect.

Edit: I randomly took off pieces of armor at the Devourer, where he hits you is totally random so that proves it furthermore on the topic of runes.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/25/06 11:05

SirShaitan

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

It has never crossed my mind that abs runes weren't global.

1 rune = X amount of damage
2 runes = X mount of damage it didn't change
3 runes = X amount of damage

It doesnt matter on which piece or armor the runes is applied or in what order.
The damage remains the same. The 1st rune "blankets" all the others. So they don't stack and they are global.

01/25/06 11:29

Rogue

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

I'm tending to go with blackpheonix on this one, why would A-net lie to us?

and from your test anyway it looked like the knights gauntlets were what was absorbing the damage, not the rune.

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01/25/06 11:41

Tor Den Mektige

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

Thank you, you have confirmed what I have suspected/known all allong. Now I can say for sure how it is and on top of that I can say "There was a test done on this, here is the thread"

major + cred for u for taking the time to do all of this!

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01/25/06 11:59

Genesis_Dragon

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

This topic keeps on popping up...

I'll believe what GuildWars.com tells us, the piece of armor (including any additional protection - except Runes) protects the part of the body it is on...

If I get hit in the head, my Boots? protect me :/ It just doesn't make any sense.

01/25/06 12:01

Julia Heartilly

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

QUOTE

and from your test anyway it looked like the knights gauntlets were what was absorbing the damage, not the rune.

Actually if you had read the whole post and not just fragments of it you would've seen that was what I stated.

01/25/06 12:04

Julia Heartilly

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

QUOTE

If I get hit in the head, my Boots? protect me :/ It just doesn't make any sense.

I will keep looking into it and won't blindly believe anything written down anywhere.

If it comes to making sense, there are more things that don't make sense, I was conducting a test on a Stone Summit Scout in Northern Shiverpeaks earlier and stumbled onto the strange matter that where 'Pin Down' hits is totally random, even if I took both my boots and leggings off part of the time I took big damage and the other part very low damage.

So basically, if someone uses 'Pin Down' to fire an arrow in your shoulder... you're crippled all of a sudden, does that make sense to you?

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/25/06 12:11

Rogue

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

you did say that.

where do the runes fall in?

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01/25/06 12:12

Niobium

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

OMFGOD!! ... some of you people still think damage reduction isn't universal? I proved this time and time again in lots of posts on this forum, and again when someone posted a bad guide on warrior armor .. not to mention everyone elses proof

gladiators + knights = best vrs physical and excellent vrs elemental(but not the best), +extra nrg

platemail + 1 knights provides the best protection vrs elemental, just incase you wanted to know

where the knights is doesn't mean anything, or where the rune is doesn't mean anything.

EDIT: Runes however do not provide dmg reduction vrs non attack damage, ie they only work for physical damage, knights however work for all damage ... but again this doesn't change anything, since 1 piece of knights is global.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/25/06 12:28

Hammerite Rozsda

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

QUOTE

gladiators + knights = best vrs physical and excellent vrs elemental(but not the best), +extra nrg

not necessarily only that, glad set + ascalon helmet will do exactly the same (there is no glad helmet anyways)

01/25/06 12:49

Ly Rampart

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

I deduced the same thing, except I didn't take time to graph it out :P GJ.

01/25/06 12:57

Genesis_Dragon

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

QUOTE

If I get hit in the head, my Boots? protect me :/ It just doesn't make any sense.

Ok, although, if you get hit in the chest, you'll be protected by your chest-piece... :D The effect of the skill - well that is strange...

But making arrows appear out of thin air, and projecting them with an invisible sting is stranger...

01/25/06 12:58

mwpeck

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RE: Dmg reduction proven to be global!

I use my warrior for rune farming mainly, so he has full plate except for his boots which are knights. In my own experience, i took about 37-40(with there knockdown-skill) dmg with that setup.....then when i put my major absorb in my boots, that dropped down to 34-36. I also tried taking off then knights and they did 40-45 dmg with the same skill.......I didnt test it against 30 hits or so, just like 10 or so, so in my experience, knights and absorb runes are both global and they both stack(stack as in the armor and the rune stacks with each other).


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01/25/06 12:59

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