GameAmp: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

Forum >> PvE & Quest Discussion >> Battle in Ascalon >> Ressurection isn't for the commoner

1 2 Next >

User

Message

blackphoenix

Posts: 123
Joined: 09/23/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Ressurection isn't for the commoner

I was goin through the Underworld the other day and it occured to me, why are there ghosts in the UW? Why do we even need a UW?

With so many spells like Ressurect, Rebirth, Restore Life, Vengance, etc.. there shouldn't be any ghosts at all. Apparently you need to be of the elite of Tyria to rate being resurrected.

Or perhaps it's just the shortage of monks. Why should any person have to die just because of a lack of man power? It's time for some of you tanks to stop tanking all the time and assist with ressurecting people.

This discrimination in Tyria has got to stop. Just because a person is "only a peasant" doesn't give them any less right to life than King Adelbern himself (ok, bad analogy, we all know the king is an arse). So who's with me? Ressurection for the masses!!

01/30/06 10:52

Fenninculus

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/03/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

Or is it just that nine times out of ten the monks decide to leave the party at some point, usually amidst the fiercest battle, leaving everyone else behind to die..? ;)

01/30/06 11:03

Sroth The Dead

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/13/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

Or is it just that nine times out of ten the monks decide to leave the party at some point, usually amidst the fiercest battle, leaving everyone else behind to die..? ;)

Or watching them Infuse Health + Offering of Blood themselves to no health, then take 1 hit and die.

Then there's the case of a monk joining as a heal monk, who let every on die, then soloed as a 55hp and took some one's ecto that dropped.

Monks being as needed as they are, have created a new kind of griefing (to make up for the zoning concept that put an end to traditional griefing).

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Sroth The Dead: N/Me lvl 20
Ullr Hoax: R/x lvl 20
Sir Rhuk: W/Mo lvl 20
Open PvP slot

01/30/06 11:14

blackphoenix

Posts: 123
Joined: 09/23/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

Please don't misunderstand. This is not another rant about the percieved requirement of monks... This is about all those other people. The ones that we fight to defend. The poor souls who died in the searing and we fight to take our vengence upon the charr for.

The people need a voice! No one needs die in vain...or from natural causes...or from freak farming accidents...or from an OD on witches brew...or from Grazden the Protector's inadequacies as a protector...or from... um, where was I?
Oh yeah... no more must the villagers of ascalon stay dead when there is an alternative.

Low cost resurrections for all!!

01/30/06 11:46

Sroth The Dead

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/13/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

Please don't misunderstand. This is not another rant about the percieved requirement of monks...

Yeah, we know, but b****ing about evil monks is fun ;-)

But yea, with all the dead stuff walking around, can't we use Restore Life or something and make them an NPC ally? It would sure make Kryta, UW and FoW much easier :D

Sroth The Dead: N/Me lvl 20
Ullr Hoax: R/x lvl 20
Sir Rhuk: W/Mo lvl 20
Open PvP slot

01/30/06 12:18

Fenninculus

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/03/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn\'t for the commoner

What must also be taken into consideration is this:
should all the dead tyrians be resurrected, actions must be
taken in order to survive the massive population boom or
otherwise we'd be in deep trouble.
As an unknown wise old man has once said: "The majority of
world's population is dead", if u catch my point.
How could we arrange housing and occupation to all the idle
reanimated people? It would be a catastrophe, so leave the
dead be, I say! ;)

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/30/06 12:52

Feanaro Anwarun

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 69
Joined: 11/12/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

I think Tyria is over populated already... thats why you have those weird mountain-city-houses-things you see in LA. tho i think its a ghetto, Because we ''Elite'' people are not allowed to come there.

Check out Pirates of the Burning Sea... Yarr! We got some interestin stuff goin on!
Always enjoyed the credibility titles here on GameAmp? Help us with your suggestions for some funny or awesome titles over here at PotBS!

01/30/06 13:00

Sroth The Dead

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/13/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

I want to live in one of those ghettos. But Anet didn't think we'd ever want to go into a building. So we all have to camp outside at night. Which we would if it was ever night.

*cough* hint *cough*

Sroth The Dead: N/Me lvl 20
Ullr Hoax: R/x lvl 20
Sir Rhuk: W/Mo lvl 20
Open PvP slot

01/30/06 23:27

Akhilleus

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

indeed...
i think monks need some S E R I O U S nerfing, that way they wont be the high-and-mighty class of characters played by egotisicial losers that they are now...
the average wammo may be a mentally handicapped kid whose so far down the "retardatius maximus" tree that he'd make the shortbus look like a nobel-prize winners science convention; but at least the average wammo never tried to charge 5k to join your party, with every intention of leaving at the first sign of having to do any work.

Feel free to sign up for the LI forums:
The Legio Immortalii

01/31/06 01:42

Nihil Zarathustra

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

i think monks need some S E R I O U S nerfing, that way they wont be the high-and-mighty class of characters played by egotisicial losers that they are now...

Ehem..i play a monk and i hardly think i'm egotistical about it. In fact i consider myself to be a noob at it since people still die when i do play a monk.

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

01/31/06 01:44

Akhilleus

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

i think monks need some S E R I O U S nerfing, that way they wont be the high-and-mighty class of characters played by egotisicial losers that they are now...

Ehem..i play a monk and i hardly think i'm egotistical about it. In fact i consider myself to be a noob at it since people still die when i do play a monk.

well, its just the fact that monks are in a position of power.
GW is built in such a way that in PvE you can do without the nuker, you can do without the warrior, you can do without the necro, you can do without the mesmer, so long as you have a sufficient player of another class to make up.
but, it is almost impossible in later missions/quests to complete them without a healer.
because of this; monks as a whole have the ability to leave a party the seccond they no logner want to be a part of it, and join another group within secconds; a procedure that takes most other classes a considerably longer period of time (sometimes half an hour or over, assuming you have that much patience).

Feel free to sign up for the LI forums:
The Legio Immortalii

01/31/06 01:50

Nihil Zarathustra

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

well, its just the fact that monks are in a position of power.

Every class has the ability to self-heal in one way or another. It's the dependance on monks that has prevented people from mastering this ability. I, for one, do not go into a mission without at least 1 self-heal ability from either my primary or secondary class.

Also it can be debated that every class has a mission where it excells above the rest. Trappers have their moment of glory in THK, Warriors are runners and can farm, etc.

As for the monks being able to leave whenever they want to, it's not the monks it's the players. As a monk i have always been the last to leave the mission even if i have to try to win it by myself and have little to no hope of doing so. But the fact is that any class can leave and cause the failure of a mission if the rest of the classes cannot function without it. For example if the warriors leave from THK then the rest of the group will have a difficult time protecting the king and will most likely die from high dmg. If the ranger leave then you lose the ability to do good group dmg and put up status effects and can fail from a lack of dmg dealing. Monks have an important role but it's not the role that makes them bad monks it's the players behind that role.

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

01/31/06 01:56

Sroth The Dead

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/13/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

I agree. In later missions, not only is it hard to find a monk (they seem to be getting fewer and fewer), but the success of the mission seems to ride upon how good or how many monks we get. That's why I try to stick with guild help, because I know they're good, and I know they wont leave part of the way through.

Sroth The Dead: N/Me lvl 20
Ullr Hoax: R/x lvl 20
Sir Rhuk: W/Mo lvl 20
Open PvP slot

01/31/06 02:00

Akhilleus

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

well, its just the fact that monks are in a position of power.

again, true...
but for the most part non-monk heals are pretty limited, and are for the most part, not sufficient to sustain ones self in a significant confrontation.
i also think there is a point in that its the characters behind them...
but the monk class itself has a position of power, and because of that, many people exploit it for their own personal benifits, not all, but many.
just like many warriors are aggrotard morons, many monks are abusive rage-quitters.

Feel free to sign up for the LI forums:
The Legio Immortalii

01/31/06 02:04

Sroth The Dead

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/13/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

Monks have an important role but it's not the role that makes them bad monks it's the players behind that role.

But unfortunitly, it's the value of that role that invites cruel players to make monks and piss people off. Which is easier to do with monks. Because, like Akhilleus said, you can go without the ranger, mesmer, necro, or whatever, but when the monk leaves, we all get screwed.

Not all monks are griefers, but probably all griefers have a monk.

Sroth The Dead: N/Me lvl 20
Ullr Hoax: R/x lvl 20
Sir Rhuk: W/Mo lvl 20
Open PvP slot

01/31/06 02:04

Nihil Zarathustra

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

but for the most part non-monk heals are pretty limited, and are for the most part, not sufficient to sustain ones self in a significant confrontation.

Well then my next goal will be to create builds for monkless players...

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

01/31/06 02:08

Akhilleus

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

Not all monks are griefers, but probably all griefers have a monk.

amen.
and unfortunatly, all it takes is ONE monk griefer in your party to ruin the whole thing.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Feel free to sign up for the LI forums:
The Legio Immortalii

01/31/06 02:13

Nihil Zarathustra

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

Not all monks are griefers, but probably all griefers have a monk

But can't any class cause the loss for a team?

Warrior: Let's say he has to go to work or his mother called him for bed or whatever, now he will rush and not let people regen energy (energy management debate excluded from argument) and therefore cause a general defeat of the team.

Ele: Uses too many exhaustion spells thereby prohibiting him from casting nukes at the right moment, or fails to listen to timing during a spike because his attention is split thereby failing to kill an enemy.

Necro: Uses up corpses too quickly and then becomes useless midway through a battle or uses skills that sacrifice health while maintaining aggro leading to quick death.

Mesmer: Doesn't know the timing for his skills or splits his AP points too much to the point where their skills are weak or they simply don't know how to play mesmer effectivly.

Ranger: A trap ranger without expertise or a puller without a longbow..

In general any class can cause a loss for a group from simple things. It's not always the monk. In fact if a group plays very well and takes things slowly they will never really need a monk to begin with. I've been a monk with really good groups where my healing wasnt even necessary so i switched to a smiter for the next mission and we did the same if not better. Even a monk leaving the team is no excuse for poor teamwork and lack of communication.

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

01/31/06 02:16

Akhilleus

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

Not all monks are griefers, but probably all griefers have a monk

yeah. but a monk can aggro as well...
in general the problem is monks LEAVING, they see that the mission is tough and they want a free ride, so they leave in mid-battle, join another group that blind-invites monks, and screw over the former team.
a ranger leaving in mid battle: sucks, but chances are it wont kill ya.
same with virtually any other class minus monk.

Feel free to sign up for the LI forums:
The Legio Immortalii

01/31/06 02:18

manofvalor24

Posts: 0
Joined: 08/27/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn\'t for the commoner

My character is a warrior, tank, or whatever you wanna call it. I personally never carry ressurrect or any spells that restore the dead. I feel if the party is good, we won't need it. I would rather use my skill slots on abilities that will allow me to be a more effect tank. When I go out with a group, I need all of them to be an effective tank. If I am without one of them because of rez or something similar--well, I won't be effective.

Anyways, I think people should stop whining about whether a tank carries rez or not. If the monks and everybody else would do their jobs and know their roles and limitations, well nobody would die to begin with.

That's my fifty cents.

01/31/06 02:24

Nihil Zarathustra

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

a ranger leaving in mid battle: sucks, but chances are it wont kill ya.
same with virtually any other class minus monk.

That's not true. For example what happens if your stance tank leaves in the new UW?
In the right situations, which are more common then you are lead to believe, the loss of any class can cause the general defeat of the team if they lack cooperation and teamwork. If they have cooperation and teamwork then no mission except maybe for defense missions like THK would cause the team to lose a battle since they always have the option of things like hit and run tactics.

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

01/31/06 02:24

Nihil Zarathustra

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

What you are talking about is an ideal situation where not only do players behave in a way that is ideal to their current environment, but enemies act in a way that is ideal to the players. For example, let's say you are tanking and have run ahead, the group surrounds you and attacks you and you alone. Then the ele launches a nuke on the enemies or a smiter monk player Bal's aura on you or some AoE skill is used. Due to the new update the enemies run away from you but in a direction that is toward the players and then attack them. One member dies as a result. Who is to take the blame for the death? Do you blame the monk for not healing the player even if the damage done per second was greater then the heal regen in that same amount of time? Do you blame the ele for casting that nuke even though that was expected of him or the smiting monk for casting Bal's aura? Do you blame yourself for failing to be an effective tank and letting aggro get past you?

In that situation there really is no such thing as "the role of the players" since enemies tend to act in their own way and in an unpredictable manner. It's true that you don't have to bring a res sig and you can win without one, but can you really say that one player is responsible for the actions of enemies where another is not?

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

01/31/06 02:32

Akhilleus

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

a ranger leaving in mid battle: sucks, but chances are it wont kill ya.
same with virtually any other class minus monk.

yes, but in the exampel you're giving,t he team has built itself around the use of a stance-tank, and thus cannot function without one.
but very very very very few successful builds run consistently in different regions, without a monk.
in that same team, with the stance tank, if the monk instead leaves, then the stance tank dies, and so goes the rest of the team.
but in general the survival of the team is more heavily linked to the monks than any others.
thats not to say they dont contribute, but the monks in PvE have a more essential role, and i think its about time its more balanced.

Feel free to sign up for the LI forums:
The Legio Immortalii

01/31/06 02:43

Fenninculus

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/03/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn\\\\\\\'t for the commoner

QUOTE

Not all monks are griefers, but probably all griefers have a monk.

I agree, and I'd also like to point out that although u might take it that I despise all monks, that's certainly not the case. I think that the role of a monk is essential to perhaps even every kind of party build, and I really don't see many of the missions doable without a healer, at least not without considerable amount of excess effort.

Unfortunately, this setting does put the monk players in the place of power as other professions are up to a certain limit replaceable and dependant on them, and regrettably that has the tendency of attracting certain short tempered types of players.

What we must also remember is that of course there are these anti-teamwork egoists in all of the professions, e.g. the over-aggressive warrior types, to name a stereotype. I've also witnessed too many times the monks being loaded with an unreasonable amount of responsibility; supposing without bothering to ask that a smite monk should heal also, for instance. So what must be taken into consideration is that it works both ways.

What I would really like to see more "in the field", so to speak, is an increase in mutual respect, some good manners and genuine teamwork. At the moment I feel that the place is a mess and chaos reigns, which I find very regrettable.

01/31/06 02:55

Nihil Zarathustra

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

What I would really like to see more "in the field", so to speak, is an increase in mutual respect, some good manners and genuine teamwork. At the moment I feel that the place is a mess and chaos reigns, which I find very regrettable.

Of course there is no mutual respect. you are asking different people from different age groups, upbringings, cultures, and different mentalities to respect each other. Such a thing doesn't exist in the world today and definatly will not exist in a game.

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

01/31/06 03:01

tmakinen

Posts: 15
Joined: 09/21/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

About the original topic of why only some people get resurrected: it is made clear during the campaign that the player really belongs to a rare class of exceptional people, 'the chosen' and is thus able to attain ascension, whereas most people are not. Furthermore, there may be some other conditions for a successful resurrection, like having an intact body which has died only recently. It's not hard to find enough reasons for the prevalence of ghosts.

About monking then, when I play my monk in a PUG I always try my darnedest to keep everybody alive, which is often impossible with casters who think that they are tanks and tanks who think that they are invincible and the rest of the group is there just to applaud his heroic deeds. And the amount of hatred is unbearable. When people make stupid mistakes and die, they shout at me. When people ignore my announcement that my energy is 1 of 52, go in and die, they shout at me. When I Rebirth them to safety, they charge right back (with no life or energy, and me myself having no energy) and die, and shout at me. It is not once when I have dragged an uncooperative, unreasonable, unwilling to learn and ungrateful as hell, group through the mission just because I need it to be done. The occasional quitter actually makes it that much easier, too, since they are usually those with the most acute ego problem.

01/31/06 03:09

Fenninculus

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/03/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn\'t for the commoner

QUOTE

I know it aint gonna happen, but surely one can dream, eh? :)

Actually the only thing that could radically improve the atmosphere ingame (in my opinion) is that of making the game subscribable, but even I don't really want that ('cuz then I couldn't afford it infinitely).
And I'm not even saying that it would change anything, just that it could do so.
Just my observation while having played a few other MMORPG:s with monthly fees: the population in general tends to be more mature, not certainly all of the players, but in general.
But then again, I prefer the GW system, so I guess I just have to live with that, that's life.

01/31/06 03:25

shoofar

Posts: 0
Joined: 01/24/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

Ressurection ... another point of view

Hello everyone, i am an noob as i consider myself. But i am in different way.. i mean That i prefer to play PvE games with henches cuz i have hard times to get along with other players.
My first character i created was primary ele but i quickly switched to a primary Ranger cuz it was fun :) to interrupt other ... i played a little and i saw that most players try to make themselves max dmg characters and try to rush , but not every proffession is made for it (as i see it).

Anyway, as i read your opinions i see that most of u are dependent on player monks.
When my friends and me (3 rangers interruptors and 1 warrior) reached THK, we started to look for healers do do this mission... And at this time my perception of monk started to change. I don't think anymore that u really need human controlled monk (hench healer has unlimited mana i think the same about Foes - my new experiences of mesmer charracter). Henche healers, as for now, do great probably later in Ring of Fire abilities of human monks are greater because of inteligence :D.

We spent about 2 days on looking for 2 monks + random groups of other players cuz we wanted to make THK mission together - we like to play together (3 rangers and warrior).
Finally we took one more warrior and i think we had another random ranger player + 2 monk henches for THK. 8 together. And we beaten this mission.... greatly because of 2 THINKIG warriors :D most gruops lacks that (and this is the most frequent trigger which starts deaths in groups - rushing warriors - but i have a hunch why , and i am prepearing to check it by creating a warrior character).

After that we got back THK and we said loud on main chat that this mission is doable without human healers.

BTW, it really gets your mood down when u enter THK and see 4 -5 groups looking for a monks... and lots of rangers without party ... not knowing how to pass this mission.

Later when i started my new mesmer character i entered pre-ascalon and i was astonished about number of low level players who were rangers.

This is getting too long :D i see you start yawning...

IGN:

Shocking Grasp	E/Me	lvl 20	Abbadons Mouth
Jak Cie Palne	W/xx	lvl 20	Ring Of Fire

01/31/06 04:27

tmakinen

Posts: 15
Joined: 09/21/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

QUOTE

I don't think anymore that u really need human controlled monk (hench healer has unlimited mana i think the same about Foes - my new experiences of mesmer charracter). Henche healers, as for now, do great probably later in Ring of Fire abilities of human monks are greater because of inteligence :D.

Human monks have great advantages and disadvantages in comparison to their NPC counterparts. You have to be aware of those to do the proper decisions. And NPC monks have just as much energy as human ones, and acquire DP at the same rate.

NPC monk advantages:
* never leaves your party
* inhuman reflexes
* doesn't make blunders in tight spots

NPC monk disadvantages:
* often inadequate skill set
* poor sense of positioning
* doesn't avoid AoEs
* inability to plan ahead
* doesn't know when to run and fight another day

If you have only one human monk in the party, it is very much advisable that s/he is the protection monk, and the NPC monk is the healer. That way you can get the best of both worlds, more or less.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/31/06 05:03

blackphoenix

Posts: 123
Joined: 09/23/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Ressurection isn't for the commoner

Well, I meant this thread as a little bit of satire, not to be taken seriously at all. I meant it as a sort of role playing type deal where I was seeing the Tyrian world from the eyes of a lower class Tyrian. Not as a gamer wanting to rant on human nature...lol.

Anyway, I'm glad you guys got some good discussion out of it. It's nice to see people agreeing and disagreeing without flaming.

01/31/06 14:06

1 2 Next >

Don't Forget! - Rate users posts to reward or demerit their posts with Credibility!