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Fat_Smurf
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is it allowed to use macro program in GW? I've heard people from IQ talking about it but I don't think it can be used like a bot. those guy were talking about using it to make quickest combinetion like auto program enchant casting or preparation or should it be use to auto set spirit and trap
personally I don't think it's a bot but I really want to be sure before I start using it don't wanna be banned :S
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| 02/26/06 16:35 |
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Fat_Smurf
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anyone know?
oh hai.
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| 02/26/06 16:41 |
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TarisDale
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Bot or not, any add on to the game can get you in trouble!!
All the add ons I have seen or been told about give that player an unfair bonus and therefor come under the ban offence.
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| 02/26/06 16:44 |
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Fat_Smurf
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it's not an add-on not even a game modification it's a prog that you can buy at store and use it to preprog some action like read mail or auto log on gw with pass and all. it did all the click for you
oh hai.
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| 02/26/06 16:47 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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Yes, using macros is cheating and against the EULA. Anything that gives you advantages over other players and is not available to other players via guildwars.com or ANet is against the EULA and if caught with it you do risk having your character deleted or your account banned.
The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp
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| 02/26/06 16:52 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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also there is the whole moral reason since using it is cheating and if you use it to farm you help mess up the GW economy..
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| 02/26/06 16:53 |
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Fat_Smurf
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it must be hard to use it to farm :S cause you nned to always get the same spawn with rockshot at the same place :S and you wont take anything at your feet...
the prog just allow you to record a click combination so you can use 1 hotkey to chain 2 skill :S
I still not sure if it's ok or not... but it's not like a AI that solo farm all and pickup everything without problem and mistake
the only thing that could look like a bot is the fact that you can use it to spam in LA dist1 ... :S
oh hai.
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| 02/26/06 16:57 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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Yes but you can use it to purchase items from vendors when prices reset, you can use it to record certain farming movements like if you use a 55 monk in griffon farming, and you can use it to farm faction in PvP by having it enter a group and then just sit there. So it is against the EULA and i would advise against using it.
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| 02/26/06 17:00 |
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GStricto
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| QUOTE | | Yes, using macros is cheating and against the EULA. Anything that gives you advantages over other players and is not available to other players via guildwars.com or ANet is against the EULA and if caught with it you do risk having your character deleted or your account banned. |
That can't be right. According to what you just said my monitor, keyboard, mouse and headphones are against EULA since none come from ANet.
The EULA most likely says that nothing can be used that affects the game itself. Not modifying the executable, no low level system hook programs to modify how the game behaves, etc.
My keyboard is a Logitech G15... It has a built in macro editor. Does this mean I should be banned simply because of the hardware I use? Hell, the macros are great just for junk like "WTS Blah" instead of having to scroll back up to your message (for example, when you are mid conversation with someone else). I've also got the 9 emotes I most commonly use bound to keys so I don't have to keep typing out stuff.
According to "NO MACROS EVAR!!!one!!1" I'm a cheater. Let's face it, none of the stuff I use macros for give me an advantage, I just lets me be a little more lazy.
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| 02/26/06 17:04 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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Thats just playing on the technicality of my words. and yes you are a cheater if you use a macro.
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| 02/26/06 17:06 |
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GStricto
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LOL Bulls--t.
There is a difference between hardcore macros that auto farm and harmless macros that just simulate keystrokes.
Oh s--t, I just used a macro that made me say /sit!
I'm a cheater.
Right...
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 02/26/06 17:10 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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Here is a passage taken from the EULA on guildwars.com
| QUOTE | | You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of bots and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input |
Since a macro does not require human input it violates the EULA
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| 02/26/06 17:10 |
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GStricto
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| QUOTE | | Since a macro does not require human input it violates the EULA |
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| 02/26/06 17:12 |
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Kar2uns
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Some of the Farming and Selling Bots are macro based and yes they are against the EULA.
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| 02/26/06 17:13 |
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GStricto
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| QUOTE | | Some of the Farming and Selling Bots are macro based and yes they are against the EULA. |
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| 02/26/06 17:14 |
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Janus Anobix
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I gotta agree with GStricto. It is simply like binding a button to do an emote for you instead of typing it, for that I see no problem. And as it was already stated: it will not be playing the game, just simply simulating WTS - blah blah. Or whatever. If it actually moved you, aimed, attacked, and casted, and kept you alive without any sort of input after zoning...then there is a problem, besides that it is a gray area.
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| 02/27/06 00:21 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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| QUOTE | | It is simply like binding a button to do an emote for you instead of typing it, for that I see no problem. And as it was already stated: it will not be playing the game, just simply simulating WTS - blah blah. Or whatever |
Yes but by allowing you to spam WTS doesnt that give you an advantage over a player who has to type out the phrase since it saves you time? It may only save you 10 seconds per typing but in the long run that can add up to hours. Also what if i used a macro to buy up items from a merchant simply by pressing a random button rather than having to go through the options of clicking through the menu? Don't i have a better chance of buying a limited item and therefore have an advantage over the rest of the players?
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| 02/27/06 00:29 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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For example, i'm a computer science minor so i do know and have written macros to help me with programming if i have to type repititious lines so know what they can do. Lets start with the basics. I would probably write it in C++ since i know that language the best and i'd have it work my mouse and keyboard for me by assigning keys. Now i'll run the program and start the game. Now first i can assign my password to some key thats not already used. For the sake of argument we'll use the numpad even though it is already used but i dont have a key layout of the game in front of me. Now i start the program and enter 1 into the game or the program depending on how i write it and my password pops up and i hit enter and i'm in the game. Now i decide to sell something so i go into town and assign a loop to the number 2. so everytime i press it it will say "WTS Item X...1" and it will cycle 1 through 999 then restart at 1 so i'll never get caught spamming. So whereas other players have to type out the WTS message and can only do a few at a time, i can spam it simply by pressing 2. Now i sell my item and decide to make a 55 monk so i warp over to ascalon and then assign multiple mouse and key movements to the program so this time by pressing 3 i'll move my mouse from Position A a set number of pixels until it gets to the the monk runes and selects and attempts to purchase them then resets the mouse to the original position. Of course i wont set a time delay so when i press 3 it'll do this as fast as my computer will allow it to which is alot faster than a normal player can do it. So i buy up 3-4 sup runes in that way and i decide to farm some faction. So i warp off to the CA or RA as it's called now and i do the same thing for key 4. Now everytime i press it i'll click where it says start mission. so all i have to do is keep pressing 4 while reading a book and i'll enter teams and let them work for me.
Does all of this seem fair?
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| 02/27/06 01:00 |
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Lunarx1
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| QUOTE | For example, i'm a computer science minor so i do know and have written macros to help me with programming if i have to type repititious lines so know what they can do. Lets start with the basics. I would probably write it in C++ since i know that language the best and i'd have it work my mouse and keyboard for me by assigning keys. Now i'll run the program and start the game. Now first i can assign my password to some key thats not already used. For the sake of argument we'll use the numpad even though it is already used but i dont have a key layout of the game in front of me. Now i start the program and enter 1 into the game or the program depending on how i write it and my password pops up and i hit enter and i'm in the game. Now i decide to sell something so i go into town and assign a loop to the number 2. so everytime i press it it will say "WTS Item X...1" and it will cycle 1 through 999 then restart at 1 so i'll never get caught spamming. So whereas other players have to type out the WTS message and can only do a few at a time, i can spam it simply by pressing 2. Now i sell my item and decide to make a 55 monk so i warp over to ascalon and then assign multiple mouse and key movements to the program so this time by pressing 3 i'll move my mouse from Position A a set number of pixels until it gets to the the monk runes and selects and attempts to purchase them then resets the mouse to the original position. Of course i wont set a time delay so when i press 3 it'll do this as fast as my computer will allow it to which is alot faster than a normal player can do it. So i buy up 3-4 sup runes in that way and i decide to farm some faction. So i warp off to the CA or RA as it's called now and i do the same thing for key 4. Now everytime i press it i'll click where it says start mission. so all i have to do is keep pressing 4 while reading a book and i'll enter teams and let them work for me.
Does all of this seem fair? |
Yup.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 02/27/06 01:06 |
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GStricto
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| QUOTE | | For example, i'm a computer science minor so i do know and have written macros to help me with programming if i have to type repititious lines so know what they can do. Lets start with the basics. I would probably write it in C++ since i know that language the best and i'd have it work my mouse and keyboard for me by assigning keys. |
| QUOTE | | Now i'll run the program and start the game. Now first i can assign my password to some key thats not already used. For the sake of argument we'll use the numpad even though it is already used but i dont have a key layout of the game in front of me. Now i start the program and enter 1 into the game or the program depending on how i write it and my password pops up and i hit enter and i'm in the game. |
| QUOTE | | Now i decide to sell something so i go into town and assign a loop to the number 2. so everytime i press it it will say "WTS Item X...1" and it will cycle 1 through 999 then restart at 1 so i'll never get caught spamming. So whereas other players have to type out the WTS message and can only do a few at a time, i can spam it simply by pressing 2. |
| QUOTE | | Now i sell my item and decide to make a 55 monk so i warp over to ascalon and then assign multiple mouse and key movements to the program so this time by pressing 3 i'll move my mouse from Position A a set number of pixels until it gets to the the monk runes and selects and attempts to purchase them then resets the mouse to the original position. Of course i wont set a time delay so when i press 3 it'll do this as fast as my computer will allow it to which is alot faster than a normal player can do it. So i buy up 3-4 sup runes in that way and i decide to farm some faction. |
| QUOTE | | So i warp off to the CA or RA as it's called now and i do the same thing for key 4. Now everytime i press it i'll click where it says start mission. so all i have to do is keep pressing 4 while reading a book and i'll enter teams and let them work for me. |
| QUOTE | | Does all of this seem fair? |
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| 02/27/06 01:39 |
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Nihil Zarathustra
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| QUOTE | Oooh, buying three runes super fast. That's gotta be horrible. You would spend more time getting the mouse coordinates and debugging than it would take to just click yourself. This point is also moot.
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Well since the items in the menus are in a fixed order if i dont adjust the position of the menus i can assign values to any item. Thats what alot of people did for ectos after the market reset.
Edit: of course this is just a minor technical issue and a loophole in your statement :P
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 02/27/06 02:36 |
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GStricto
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| QUOTE | | Well since the items in the menus are in a fixed order if i dont adjust the position of the menus i can assign values to any item. Thats what alot of people did for ectos after the market reset. |
*edit* I've decided to throw some cred your way, debates are always entertaining and while we might not agree, it does refine the global understanding of the different sides of an issue.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 02/27/06 03:08 |
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Fenninculus
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | Yes, using macros is cheating and against the EULA. Anything that gives you advantages over other players and is not available to other players via guildwars.com or ANet is against the EULA and if caught with it you do risk having your character deleted or your account banned. |
That can't be right. According to what you just said my monitor, keyboard, mouse and headphones are against EULA since none come from ANet.
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Actually, you are completely mistaken. What Nihil said was that "Anything that gives you advantages over other players and is not available to others thru Anet" etc.
Everynone needs to have a monitor and a keyboard (without which you couldn't opererate your computer), so you are splitting hairs here.
Using bots is wrong. Using macros, no matter what kind, is wrong. Both deeds are unacceptable. Even if you didn't misuse your key binding macros, they enable you to do so at will, so it's wrong.
If you use hardware key binds, you won't probably ever get caught, but it is still wrong. Being lazy is no excuse.
Using third party devices, macros, bots etc. is unacceptable because they enable you to exploit the system, no matter whether you choose to do so or not, and no matter if the gain from the possible exploitance is profitable or not.
 
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| 02/27/06 04:09 |
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honnaja
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People disagreeing but not flaming each other. I like it. +cred to GStricto for actually appreciating a civilised 'debate'.
I can't add anything in a technical sense but it just got me thinking.. you could argue that anyone can get a bot running, just like anyone can buy GW. What would we end up with then? I game played by.. computers? LoL. What's the point.. If you like it play, if you can't be bothered, then don't :p
It's kinda like buying GW currency with the real thing. Anyone can do it but it's just not playing the game is it.
:)
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 02/27/06 04:40 |
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Janus Anobix
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I never really looked at the whole macro/bot thing of moving the mouse for you etc, I generally just considered:
(from tfc - a game that I have been familiar with for years):
bind x "say Hello Guildies!" or what have you
binding/alias binds have become such an integral party of the game that still some people look down upon it, but it has generally been accepted by players as a legal move. Although I am unaware of the way that GW macros work, as those binds in tfc could be done -- in game (with console or a text file that is used in game) instead of using a third party program. Which in that case I would agree that it is wrong, although if you would be able to bind keys to say something or whatever in game then I would find it completely legal.
I hope what I said makes sense.
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| 02/27/06 08:04 |
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Genesis_Dragon
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Games like that have Binds built in, so does CoD and CSS, it's part of the game, and the developers tell you how to use them... It's not an unfair advantage, because everyone can, and is allowed to use them.
ANet have no such built in Bind mechanics, except for assigning keys to single actions - the stringing together of these single commands, by means of software or hardware aids, is ofcourse against the EULA. No matter how small or big, you agree to not use them. They don't add a disclaimer later saying, we don't mind you bending our rules ever so slightly, because you deem them to be harmless.
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| 02/27/06 08:30 |
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Janus Anobix
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| QUOTE | Games like that have Binds built in, so does CoD and CSS, it's part of the game, and the developers tell you how to use them... It's not an unfair advantage, because everyone can, and is allowed to use them.
ANet have no such built in Bind mechanics, except for assigning keys to single actions - the stringing together of these single commands, by means of software or hardware aids, is ofcourse against the EULA. No matter how small or big, you agree to not use them. They don't add a disclaimer later saying, we don't mind you bending our rules ever so slightly, because you deem them to be harmless. |
thanks for the clarification, I figured there was a similar feature built into GW, it would be nice anyway, but I can see how it would give somewhat of an unfair advantage if it wasn't.
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| 02/27/06 12:29 |
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rowen200
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Omg if you all really want an answer contact the people who make it themselves they'll settle it faster than this arguing can. DOn't want to be overbaering but this just ridiculous.
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| 02/27/06 12:35 |
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Rogue
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well that killed off the intelegent part of the conversation...
a bot is something that can do the job of a human at the keyboard
a macro is something that will make your playing easier (press a button and it will do a combination of things)
however both things are against the EULA of GW.... not a good idea to break that.
and as for text macroing... you can just hit enter and then the up arrow key to repeat what you last said....
IGN: Rogue Mysst. Guest me for GvG.
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| 02/27/06 12:45 |
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Tor Den Mektige
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ok, I simply dont have the time to read all of these posts. But here is what I think, using a macro for an emote etc, its not a problem. however chaining skills? why? I just hit they keys on my number line 1-8 ... it goes much faster imo, and I can taylor it to every situation I need. Chain the skills your self, and if you have a hard time playing because you click your skills with your mouse, learn to do it with your keys. There is no need for macros what so ever to do skills. Because of that, I see the use of macros for chaining skills as a sign of lazyness from the user side, which in my opinion is one of the biggest signs of immaturity out there. To many people arent willing to just do what needs to be done to get what they want. Everybody looks for shortcuts. Play the game the way it was made to be played. Thats my 2 cents.
I dont know if its against eula to use macros to chain skills, I would think so. I used to play UO, and the game came with a built in macro machine where you could write your own macros = it is legal in that game. Guildwars doesnt come with it = It is not legal. I just look at it the safe way and go the extra mile. Works great for me, I am walking around in 15k armor and victos axe and bulwark. I didnt use macros to gain any advantage. (I know there are many other people out there with 15k armor and expensive weapons that didnt use macros also, im not trying to brag, all im saying is, its not hard to play the game normally, and there is no use in taking short cuts)
Account 1: Tor Den Mektige, Account 2: Ching Chong Whi
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| 02/27/06 12:49 |
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