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Glasher

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Joined: 01/19/2005
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Fairness in PVP

Stalkers are WAY too over powered. There is no reason in the world there should be a villain that can kill a controller, blaster, scrapper, and defender in one shot and almost take down a tanker in one shot. It is just wrong. Thats why I made one. lol

But really, they should not be that powerful. It is not fair. I am pretty sick of them annoying little bugs coming up and hitting Rage with an assasin strike and taking off half of his life and knocking off 1-3 toggles at the same time. When an AV does not even do that to him. Taking away half of a persons life is bad enough. But, when they do that, as well as knock off 1-3 toggles all in one shot, that is not fair at all. I know of no power a hero has that is going to do that. Even a blasters sniper shot is not going to one shot someone. At least not in my experience. When I take my level 28 energy blaster into Sirens I can knock the crap out of them with my sniper shot, but no one dies in one shot. Even after hitting build up and aim, I still can only take off half of a stalker's, corruptor's, and Master Mind's health. Without build up going it is about 1/4 of their health. As far as if any of their toggles were knocked off who knows.

But they realy need to adjust Sirens Call. Especially considering most of your heroes "good" powers don't come until level 32. Controllers have no pets in Sirens (not that they would help), Scrapper's don't have their knock out blows, and a tank's main AOE attack isn't until then either. A stalker's assasin strike should be something you have to work for, not get at level 6. It needs to be a level 32 or 30 power just like the heroes best attacks. MAYBE NOT A 32, BUT YOU SEE WHERE I AM GOING WITH THAT. A controller works HARD to get to 32 so they can have their pets. The assasin strike should be something of that nature. But I guess if they did that, a stalker wouldn't be any fun. It would be like an under defensed scrapper.

And why do Glasher's holds not effect them, except slow them down? There is supposed to be a 50/50 chance that your holds are going to work, but it doesn't. At least not for Glasher. I can hit a corruptor or a mastermind and nothing happens. I can hit them again and nothing happens. I can hit them a third time and still no hold, only slowing them down. Brutes and stalkers I can understand, they have defenses for that. But so does my tanker Rage. I get held all of the time, mostly it is being terrorized, but I have also been held by cold ( i think a toggle was dropped when that happened). Regardless, I should not be held at all, not even terrorized. When an AV can not hold me or terrorize me, how can they? If they can, then we should be fighting the villains for our AV battles instead of the AVs in game. They are harder to kill and they do more damage than an AV lol.

And these are 2 level 50 heroes we are talking about here. Granted I am dropped to level 30, but my enhancements are all at 53 so I am at level 30 SOs when I go in there.

I really hate writing something like this, because I love this game so much. But I also have really started enjoying PVP. I never really got into the arenas too much, but I really like going into Sirens Call. I just think for fairness, it REALLY needs to be adjusted. Even with the one-sided nature of Sirens, I still LOVE going in there. Kill me all you want, I will still keep coming and I will eventually get you. There is nothing like the feeling of victory in there. It is almost too much fun. " he says with an crazy look in his eye"
I truly think I am addicted to PVP, is there some kind of support group for something like this?

Anyway, are there any other heroes that feel this way, or is it just me.

One more thing that happened last night. There was a villain who was phase shifted or something, and was standing right by the hospital and the heroes gate. He was being fired upon by the Police Robots as well as heroes and NOT DYING !!! He was able to drop tar patch and various other de-buffs right there outsde the hospital and at the gate to enter Steel Canyon, while his villain buddies took pop shots from a distance or TP'd us out to them. Now tell me there isn't something wrong there.

03/08/06 08:03

Captain_IcyHot

Posts: 1
Joined: 02/25/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

You know, a great defence against those pesky stalkers is to have an area of effect toggle. Likek blazing aura running. They can't get that assassin strike off if you have it on. I think there are some controller toggles, like artic air, that will make a stalker expose himself as well.

I am no longer Captain Icy-Hot... I am Brimstone Titan!!!!!!!!

03/08/06 08:25

Solaronn

Posts: 11
Joined: 02/01/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

I tried the PvP stuff and was unimpressed because of the reasoms you cited, but this was on the Warburg area, where heroes were attacking heroes, whcih is just stupid to me. Controllers were fearing tankers, and I had to continually take break frees, and make sure the controller was being TP'd away by a team mate so we could defeat him first, but then he was back a few seconds later after going to the hospital. It was foolish to me and was going no where fast. that was about 2 months ago, and I haven't been back to PvP since, except for that one night we wandered in to clear a mission slot with lower level toons and saw a brute standing right near the heroes area in bloody bay. 3 of us attacked and killed him right away, but that was the last time I've been back there.
The holds and fears are just to much though, you are right about that. I really don't enjoy that play at all. Liek you said, if an AV can't fear or hold my tank, why should a controller or corrupter?

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03/08/06 08:41

Glasher

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Joined: 01/19/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

Arctic air does work rather nicely, but they do still get the shot in on you quite often. WAY TOO OFTEN. When I can confuse a mob a level 53s without getting attacked, then they should not even be able to get near me let alone attack me.

Glasher - Level 50 Ice/bubbles controller
Flaming Rage - level 50 Fire/Invul tanker
Realm Walker - Level 40 MA/SR scrapper
Greshan - Level 29 Peace Bringer
Greffarr - Level 24 Warshade

Lin-Ki - MA/Invul scrapper Level 28 Gameamp SG
Acrtic Hurricane - Ice/storm controller Level 21 Game SG

All on Virtue excpet for Gameamp SG members

03/08/06 09:08

Red_Scout

Posts: 23
Joined: 06/27/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

I feel most Villains have a huge advantage over Heroes. Brute's having Fury to help them out in long fights, Stalkers can oneshot and/drop toggles on everything. I didn't get my best attack until 38 with my Tank and that was Greater Fire Sword... but Stalkers have the best practically the only attack they need at the low levels. Hell Stalkers even have the power to dodge Melee attacks, there is a defense for them that allows them to take very little Melee hits... I've fought seveal of these and it's bullshi..poopy. Stalkers can't even be Teleported, there needs to be some nerfs to them in I7... cause there really isn't much reason to go into PvP zones as a hero.

Warning, my stories and blog is not meant for those who are easily offended. If you are one of them, then avoid the link, you wussies.

Red's Blogs

Red's Stories.

03/08/06 09:18

VinceVoltage

Posts: 1
Joined: 07/14/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

First off, I've moved this topic to the "Rant and Rave" section for obvious reasons.

Secondly, if your secondary is Force Fields, you should keep Repulsion Field up in the PvP zones. It'll repel even the hidden Stalkers. If you keep a Storm or Empathy Defender with you, "Clear Mind" and "O2 Boost" will help you see the Stalkers a lot easier.

Next, Stalkers are NOT as powerful as you make them out to be. They are easily defeated in PvP if you play your character right. If you stay in groups, you'll have a much better chance of surviving a Stalker attack. 9/10 times, a Stalker will not attack a group of heroes. They'll go for the solo Blasters or Controllers almost every time they see one alone. Stalkers will also almost always go for the Defender in a group first. Once a Stalker reveals himself, you need to hit him with everything you've got before he can hide again. Stay in groups and you'll be ok.

Fourth, if you've got FF powers and you get one-shotted by a Stalker's assassin strike with all your defenses up, you need to rethink your slots BIG TIME. In all my Stalker experiences (on both sides), I've never once seen a one-shot-kill. It takes at least 2 shots (usually 2 Stalkers working in tandem to Assassin Strike at the same time) to pull off a OSK.

Finally...

QUOTE

There was a villain who was phase shifted or something, and was standing right by the hospital and the heroes gate. He was being fired upon by the Police Robots as well as heroes and NOT DYING !!! He was able to drop tar patch and various other de-buffs right there outsde the hospital and at the gate to enter Steel Canyon, while his villain buddies took pop shots from a distance or TP'd us out to them. Now tell me there isn't something wrong there.

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03/08/06 09:49

Glasher

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RE: Fairness in PVP

If he was Phase Shifting, he can't use any powers that affect anyone but himself. In other words, he could be dropping that stuff from Phase Shift, it'd have to be that he went Invisible or Stealth, dropped the tar patch, and hit Phase Shift. If he was getting hit by the Police Drones, he had to have had on Phase Shift, but from Phase Shift, you can't activate powers that aren't already on. And if his friends were trying to snipe from a distance, they must have been pretty far away from the drones or they'd get zapped. TP Foe doesn't have the greatest range on it either, so there is NOTHING wrong with using tactics. Just because you're in your base doesn't mean you're safe. Always expect the unexpected. I recommend reading up on your Sun Tsu..."The Art of War."[/QUOTE]

That's what I thought too. But he was laying down tar patch and hitting us with dark powers. It was the wierdest thing I have ever seen. None of the heroes could believe it either. Also, the villains can get close enouigh to TP you to them, even if you are standing at the gate, not out in front of the hospital, but at the gate. It has been done to me and several team mates. They can also stay right along the side of the hospital without getting shot by the robots. As a matter of fact they can stand right across the street and not get shot at by the robots. (Great now I gave that away to the villains)

As far as my slots go, they are slotted the way they should be. 3 defenses on each with 1 end reduc on my force fields. I guess I can go 4 defenses, but it is not that much of an improvement. And unfortunatley, my repulsion powers aren't available to me at that level. I need to respec to get some of those by level 30. I am using my PVE build in there with Glasher. He was made to pretty much do nothing but hold and give out shields. Never really had the need for the repulsion powers in game. But yes, I have been one shotted by one stalker. Most of the time I do noly have about 1% of my health left, but I have been one shotted by a stalker on several occasions. But, you are right most of the time it does take two hits. But when I can not hold a Master Mind or Corruptor and they can hold me, something is wrong. My holds have 3 hold and 3 imobiliztions on them. I used to have them with 5 holds or imobilizations, but changed that after ED.
Teaming is about the only way a hero can make it in there succesfully. The villains are always in number, so a solo hero really stands no chance. I do not run around in there without a team. It would be suicide. I have an SG friend who has a stalker. They went in there solo the other day and killed 5 heroes by themselves in about 20 minutes. So yes the stalkers are overpowered. There is no way a solo villain should be able to kill like that. Now granted the heroes they were fighting might not have been fighting in a good way, but come on. And in all honesty, this person is not a person to make up something like this.

03/08/06 11:13

blacktomcat

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Joined: 01/11/2006
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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

In all my Stalker experiences (on both sides), I've never once seen a one-shot-kill. It takes at least 2 shots (usually 2 Stalkers working in tandem to Assassin Strike at the same time) to pull off a OSK.

Sorry, but as a long-time Defender/Controller player, a well-built Stalker will always OSK a Defender or Controller and might even get the occasional Blaster.

=^..^= . o O (Nothing to see. Just a cat.)
(_""_)~

03/08/06 11:15

MajorTwilight

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Joined: 07/19/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

Sorry, but as a long-time Defender/Controller player, a well-built Stalker will always OSK a Defender or Controller and might even get the occasional Blaster.

It has happened to me too... I've even kept my defender inside a circle of teammates, but a jumping stalker OSKed me three times, even with protectives on and watchers all around. And he was even able to escape right afterwards because by the time the team responded to my death and countered, his teammate had tped him to safety.

I liked playing my stalker because he was so brutally overpowered at such low levels. Unfortunately he became dead boring for the same reasons. I'm sure that once sales and subscriptions for CoV pick up to a good steady rate, they'll nerf the hell out of them, just like what happened to CoH.

What we sometimes call the "White Dwarf Effect" from our W40K days...

03/08/06 11:30

VinceVoltage

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Joined: 07/14/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

Hmm...that's really weird that he could pull those powers off and still not be affected. I dunno if he just had really good defense or what...but that's really really odd...

If your build is at best, then I dunno what to say except "don't go into PvP zones alone." If your character just plain can't survive on their own, make sure to always be on a team. Its a pain in the butt, I know, but at least you'll be alive.

I'm not saying I don't believe you on anything, I'm just saying that I've never seen some of the stuff you've said. Its more than possible for that to happen, its just that I've never come across it. I've been playing the game since the CoH Headstart (way back almost 2 years ago) so I've seen a lot, however I am missing out on a ton since I still haven't gotten any characters to 50 yet (I have A LOT of alts). So I believe you, I just found it weird.

With the OSKs, I haven't seen any, but I've seen plenty of tandem Assassin Strike coordinations that result in an immediate kill. Granted most of my PvP has been limited to Bloody Bay and Siren's Call, I'd guess you'd see more of it in Warburg? Like I said, I didn't intend to call anyone a liar or storyteller, just stating my opinions and what I have/haven't seen in my journeys.

~ VV

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03/08/06 12:30

Glasher

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Joined: 01/19/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

I knew you didn't mean anything like that. :) One bad thing about typing. LOL You can't hear the tone in a voice. I wish you could hear the confusion in my typing. lol lol I never thought anything like that could be done, and I would'nt have believed it, if I hadn't seen it. I never solo in there with Glasher. It is instant death. Don't get me wrong, the deaths are not what bothers me. I love fighting in Sirens Call !!! It is the way I die. When my lvl 50 controller can't even hold something, and yet I can be held without any problems, something is not right. And when my tanker can stand toe to toe with an AV without any problems, and a stalker can almost kill me in one shot. There is another problem.

But believe me, I sure didn't mean anything negative towards you either. I knew you weren't going in that direction.

03/08/06 13:10

MajorTwilight

Posts: 2
Joined: 07/19/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Fairness in PVP

You both suck!!!

Sorry guys, my inner villian took control of the typing, and disturbed by the extreme friendliness of this board, make me type that. Or I think I'm funny but I'm not.

Yes, I know which is the true answer. Don't remind me. :-p

Anyway, I will admit that the OSKs I've been on the recieving end of were usually from my blind spot, so it is entirely possible that it was just a well timed coordinated strike by two attackers. Can't say for certain, all I know is I went from standing and full health to prone and KOed in the space of a few seconds. And that was even in a team. Scary!

03/08/06 22:50

Steampunk

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Joined: 03/16/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

Man, it feels weird, but I feel like the only hero who I ever hear saying "Don't nerf the stalkers". I'm serious. I say this, only because each PvP zone has enormous signs next to the doors warning about the dangers assosciated with PvP. All contacts that direct you, even in an auxilary manner, to the PvP zones, have bright red warnings in their chat boxes that say how dangerous PvP can be. Additionally, what do you really *lose* by dying in PvP? Sure, you might have to hit up the hospital staff for some bandaids, but I think of PvP zones as one of those big bouncy castle things. You get to jump around and hit each other with bop-em's, or whatever they call em, and nobody's worse for wear att eh end of the day.

Look, I know I probably sound all exasperated, and Glash, its in no way directed at you personally, but when I hear "Nerf PvP" my facial tic reaserts itself. For a few main reasons, summed up from above. PvP is:

-Positively optional.

-Materialistically unrewarding (aside from a slight bit of bounty. And I'm not even talking about real material gain, I'm talking about *virtual* material gain.

-Utterly debt free (unless you're tp'ed into a group of enemies, that's griefing as defined by the terms of use, I believe.)

So, in conclusion, whenever I hear someone who's been beaten by a stalker and wants them nerfed, I'll chime in as the devil's advocate. If the devs see fit to *balance* PvP, then that's out of my hands, but I just get a little tired when I hear the call of the "Stalkers are too powerfull" brigade. All ATs have different power. Are they balanced? Maybe. But is that a reason for debate in a PvP context? No. SImply because there's nothing to gain or lose from any perspective in PvP whatsoever.

03/08/06 23:27

Redknight8

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Joined: 02/16/2006
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RE: Fairness in PVP

How about the ppl that like to tp ppl from the safe zones and let there stalkers kill them? Thatsy I always say that was a cheap move.

03/09/06 02:24

Red_Scout

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Joined: 06/27/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

I say nerf Stalkers, what's the point if your gonna have the PvP zone only fun for Tankers, Scrappers, Blappers, Stalkers and Master Minds? All the while spitting on the other ATs? All the OSK's I've seen are on Controllers, Blasters and Defenders, and after 1-2 OSK they get sick of it and leave, leaving the the zone with only those 3 Hero ATs that I affore mentioned. A lot of people want to PvP, but they can't when all they get is OSK. I've been in a group with 2 Tanks, 2 Scrappers, 3 Blasters... while everyone was standing around the squishies, Stalkers would do nothing but run up with SS, AS the squishies and SS away leaving everyone else playing catch up. Where's the fun?

Did you know on Triumph, that Stalkers always out number the Heroes in Siren's Call? Everytime I feel like running to Siren's there would be 3-4 Heroes running out of the hospital as I walk in and there would be 5-10 Stalkers standing outside the Hero's base just waiting or TPing, all the while THEY CAN'T BE TPED THEMSELVES. I've seen it, a Scrapper who would TP a villain towards him could not TP any Stalker.

There's nothing MORE fun then getting ASed by 4 Stalkers at once, talk about having no chance to hit Dull Pain.

Warning, my stories and blog is not meant for those who are easily offended. If you are one of them, then avoid the link, you wussies.

Red's Blogs

Red's Stories.

03/09/06 07:00

blacktomcat

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Joined: 01/11/2006
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RE: Fairness in PVP

The problem with heroes vs. villains in PvP is that the villain AT's innate abilities are far better suited to PvP, while most hero AT's tend to only work well in PvE (okay, the scrapper's critical hit works anywhere and the blaster and defender abilities don't seem to work very well anywhere, but I digress). The reason for this is that they were developing the villain AT's and the big PvP areas simultaneously, therefore allowing for great thought to be put into them.

I still think the blaster defiance ability should be changed to up damage sooner or increase the damage in relation to End as opposed to Life. I also think an ability for defenders which increases their buffs and debuffs in relation to nearby team-mates would be cool too. Wait, that's a different thread. Sorry.

Anyway, there's my 2 inf.

=^..^= . o O (Nothing to see. Just a cat.)
(_""_)~

03/09/06 08:28

blacktomcat

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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

With the OSKs, I haven't seen any, but I've seen plenty of tandem Assassin Strike coordinations that result in an immediate kill. Granted most of my PvP has been limited to Bloody Bay and Siren's Call, I'd guess you'd see more of it in Warburg? Like I said, I didn't intend to call anyone a liar or storyteller, just stating my opinions and what I have/haven't seen in my journeys.

No problem. Didn't mean to sound catty (okay, bad pun!). And my PvP experiences are limited to BB and SC, so trust me, it happens even there. Sorry about any bad feelings. (please don't hurt me!)

=^..^= . o O (Nothing to see. Just a cat.)
(_""_)~

03/09/06 08:31

VinceVoltage

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Joined: 07/14/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

I say nerf Stalkers, what's the point if your gonna have the PvP zone only fun for Tankers, Scrappers, Blappers, Stalkers and Master Minds?

First off, you just named 3/5 ATs for Heroes (granted, you said Blappers, which would be Blasters technically). I can see how its "not fun" for Defenders since they have to work 24-7 to keep their teammates alive and are usually the first ones targeted. But how is it not fun for Controllers? Every single time I've gone down in PvP as a villain, its been because of a Controller's holds. I can't tell you how many of those PvP events were ruined for me because I just got held the whole time. I tried all the ATs the Villains have...they're all putty in the Controller's hands. Trollers RULE PvP as long as they don't solo. Sure, once in a while, you get the bad day and your holds miss, the other guy's holds hit and you go down a few times.

Second, did you say PvP is fun for MM's? I don't think so, dude. I built my main in CoV to be PvP friendly, and he gets ROCKED. My main MM (Desmond Doom - Level 33 Robotics/Traps) has Stealth, Invisibility, Phase Shift, TP Foe, and Fly. You can't get more PvP minded than those powers. Even when I'm invisible with all my minions out, upgraded, and updated I still get found and blasted somehow. EVERYONE bypasses the minions and goes straight for me. I think that if my cat were to somehow learn how to play CoH, create an account, enter a PvP zone against me, and engage me in battle, even he would pass my minions and go right for me. And let me tell you, a MM is as squishy, if not squishier, than a Blaster or a Controller. We also have very little to defend ourselves besides our pets. So once you get by them, all we have is maybe 3 or 4 attacks of our own, which hit for diddly-squat, if they even hit at all.

PvP is much more fun from the hero side of things. Every single PvP event I've done, the Heroes have WHOOPED the villains. Besides the fact that there are way more people who play CoH than CoV (just look at the difference in our boards), Heroes have been around longer, know how to be played better, and can be more powerful (Heroes can get up to 50, Villains only 40). Sure, the Villains have Stalkers. But they can be easily defeated with the right tactics. Is it somewhat cheap that 4 Stalkers will team up, find a lone victim, and Assassin Strike him/her at the same time? Yes, but no. Its strategy. Sure it might seem like its unecessary or unfair, but its the way the game is played. As stated by another, PvP is 100% optional. There are all the warnings in the world around the game before you go in, and even a chance to get out before you can get hurt in case you do go in one of the zones. Being Staff on the CoV side as well, I've read more than enough posts about the same kinds of things going on with Heroes as the cheap ones and Stalkers and villains as the victims.
"Oh, well 5 Controllers teamed up and held me so long I just couldn't move and had nowhere to go. I had to sit there for 'x' amount of minutes until they finally killed me."
"Everytime I ASd this guy, he'd run away and quit the game, come back and attack me, I'd hit him again, he'd run, and quit...etc etc..."
"These Defenders kept TPing me out of the base and into Troller holds where a Blaster and Scrapper would just pound me till I was dead."
"These heroes kept TPing me into their base right by the Police Drones and they'd zap and kill me."

I might be making up a word or two here or there, but those are the stories I've heard from the villain side of things, almost exactly as I saw them. I've never heard anyone say "I love PvP" or "PvP is great because its so balanced" or really anything praising PvP. Compare PvP in the CoH/CoV world to other games. I've been told WoW PvP is HORRENDOUS. Level 60s attacking level 2s and that kind of thing. The same goes for Lineage II. And what about good ol' Half Life-Counterstrike? EVERYBODY FREAKIN' CHEATS! Or if they're not cheating, they won't stop babbling over their microphone or cursing each other out with their 8 year-old prepubescent voices. Its like listening to a preschool argument with R-rated language. The CoH and CoV community is one of the best, if not THE best one out there. I haven't seen more helpful people in any aspect of the internet (besides Gameamp). As heated as our PvP can be and as frustrating as it is sometimes where things don't go your way, keep this is mind: if Firespray can have a good PvP day with an Empathy Defender, we should all be enjoying it too.

~ VV

PS - Mark, its all in good fun. Hehe.

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03/09/06 08:53

Red_Scout

Posts: 23
Joined: 06/27/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

I don't know any other AT on Villains or Heroes that can one shot anyone like the Stalkers can, I've been 2 shotted by a friend as a Stalker. ASed me, stunned and put a finish move on me. Maybe that's 3... But Stalkers are perfect solo killers, no one else can compare to them. They got too many invisibles that can by pass most Acc buffs, they can't get through clear mind. Nerf their invisiblity or let us attack while having Invisible Power Pool on as well.

Ok for Mastermind's, I'd say there are about 2 types that can stand longer then the rest... bubblers, annoying as hell, and Robotics/Devices MM. I've been brought down by one of those quick, he had all his pets out webgernaded me and caltropsed me so I was pretty stuck in place... couldn't get out to beat dude down and his minions packed a wallop. Bubblers, I just can't hit and I ran into a Bubbler/Robotics... that was fun.

Warning, my stories and blog is not meant for those who are easily offended. If you are one of them, then avoid the link, you wussies.

Red's Blogs

Red's Stories.

03/09/06 09:29

swissarmy68

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 5
Joined: 07/08/2005
Credibility: -10 pts

RE: Fairness in PVP

Seeing that I don't get any debt if I am taken down by a villain in PvP, it doesn't really bother me to much. I have not done to much head to head battles though. I have landed from flying and immediately did a face plant from two stalkers, but it was still all good. I never did see them either. I would have at least liked to have seen who got me.

I just accept that a empathy defender with 3 attacks is not going to dominate solo in PvP. I think when I enter a message comes up on the villains screen saying "fresh Meat - wandering alone." (Well actually fresh veggie being that it was Das Carrot).

Anyway, I guess I can't get that upset when I am not getting any debt from it and I am choosing to enter.

03/09/06 10:34

VinceVoltage

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Joined: 07/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

Actually, there is another AT that can one-shot: Blasters. Their Alpha Strike (Nova, Inferno, Thunderous Blast) can take out multiple enemies in one shot. Its not as effective in PvP as the Assassin Strike, but that's the benefit of being a Stalker. The downside? Once you get your AS off, if it doesn't take out your enemy on the first shot, you are SCREWED since your health is about the same as a Blaster. And when you travel in groups, that equals death for the Stalker. Everyone thinks Stalkers are Scrappers with Invisibility & an Assassin Strike when in fact they have the low HP of a Blaster or Controller.

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03/09/06 11:50

Glasher

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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

If I remember correctly, the Nova type powers are not available until at least level 32. If I am wrong, please correct me. But I do not believe they are available until at least level 32.

03/09/06 12:20

Solaronn

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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

If I remember correctly, the Nova type powers are not available until at least level 32. If I am wrong, please correct me. But I do not believe they are available until at least level 32.

yes level 32 for blasters, level 38 for defenders and their weaker version of Nova and its derivitives.

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03/09/06 12:34

Steampunk

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RE: Fairness in PVP

I believe Vince/Desmond was merely pointing out that Blasters' Nova one shot CAN be done, and not that it can be done in every PvP zone, i.e, it can be used in Warburg as that zone exemps/sk's you to 38, if I'm correct. Clarify if I'm incorrect.

03/09/06 22:40

MajorTwilight

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RE: Fairness in PVP

Various thoughts about PvP and Stalkers:

If I read it right, and if I remember right from my high level blaster friends, the big problem with the nova power is that it completely drains you of endurance, and prevents you from regaining endurance for a bit. As I have seen with my Stalker, my assassin strike does not completely drain me of end, and I can follow up with a second attack much more quickly than the depleted blaster who not only has all his endurance gone, but who usually has lost all his toggles (combat jumping, hover, whatever) and has all the defenses of a newborn once the nova is fired off.

Simple comparison time:

My main reached 32 in about 6 months of play. Yes, I have both alts and limited free time, so six months is longer than average probably. If my main was a blaster instead of a defender, she would now have the 'big stick' power available.

My stalker reached 6 in about 4 hours of play. Now he has his 'big stick' power available.

Assume that my main is a blaster and that both characters go to Warburg and are made equal levels on supposedly equal footing. Of course, the advantage goes to the blaster initially, because the blaster would have more secondary powers gained that would make him hard to reach, because the blaster has 26 more levels than the stalker. But if the stalker is level 14 (taking, say, 1 month at most of casual play), the field is much more level. Advantage begins to swing in the stalkers favor, and if the stalker gains extra levels, by the time he is level 20, he is quite possibly more than a match for the blaster.

Yes, I'm assuming this is solo play, not team, and that they are of equal skill, but it does seem strange that a stalker with much less in the way of powers and levels would quite possibly be at least an equal match for a higher level hero. With team play, it is entirely possible that with a little TP Foe help, the level 6 stalker cleans the blaster's clock, in spite of the blaster having so much more power, be it Combat Jumping, Hover/Fly, Health, Stamina, Hasten, etc.

But PvP is designed to be for cheesemongers, and the average player probably just isn't going to like it or want to play it. There are nice things that can be gained in the various PvP zones, and the lack of debt isn't bad except for the unfortunates that get into a squabble with a mob. The regular game can be frustrating enough, nevermind the PvP zones. So play it if you have the free time and have no problem sucking Awakens, but the rest of us would be better served with out dozen hours a week in the real game.

03/09/06 23:33

MajorTwilight

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RE: Fairness in PVP

03/09/06 23:37

SacredGuardian

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Joined: 03/27/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

Well, I have seen this topic on the official forums more times than I can count:) Seeing as how my "main" villain is a lvl 32 stalker, I figured I would throw in a few thoughts I have on the subject. I PvP a fair amount, I actually hit 375 rep tonight. There are times that I feel "over-powered" but generally when I get that feeling I can check the players rep, and it will not be very high. Having said that, an experienced player can avoid being ASed a large majority of the time. No matter your AT, you can keep moving and become a hard target and a lot of the time stalkers will not bother with you. I have also seen stalkers compared to other ATs such as a blaster, which isn't really fair. If a good stalker and a good blaster fight, I would have to say the stalker should win most of the time. Thats not to say though that the same stalker would win going up against a good controller or defender. Basically, there are powers available, i.e. tactics, that can really make it tough on stalkers. I have a lvl 50 nrg/nrg blaster that I pvp with at times, and I can say that I don't feel stalkers are over powered as much as they make me use more strategy and pay more attention when I know they are around.

03/10/06 00:34

Redknight8

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Joined: 02/16/2006
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RE: Fairness in PVP

Well I like to collect badges and I also like to do missions there. I avoid doing missions in siens and I'll try to do them in warburg or bloody bay since there r hardly any heros there.

03/10/06 01:39

MajorTwilight

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Joined: 07/19/2005
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RE: Fairness in PVP

There is truth in the 'tactics make a difference' thought. Unfortunately, a lot of times some ATs are tactically limited. For instance, when I go into Siren's Call as part of a team, my defender has to pretty much stay with the pack and go where the pack goes because for obvious reasons, they want me well within range so my heals can be there to help them when they need it most, as well as for my buffs. This frequently makes me a sitting duck.

It does seem easier, and often much easier, for my villians to function in PvP. This also seems to be reflected in the fact that usually the villians zone damage bonus is significantly higher than the heroes, which makes it even easier for the villians to kick hero butt.

03/10/06 07:06

VinceVoltage

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RE: Fairness in PVP

QUOTE

Exactly right, thank you. But I think it exemps you to 35...I don't remember as I hate Warburg since its instant death for me too often.

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03/10/06 07:30

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