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mooseyfate

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What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I don't like them. They aren't really ripping us off of other skills, because there are just over 300 new skills even without the duplicate skills. I counted 4 duplicate skills for every class except Monk and Ranger, for which I counted 5. One of the Ranger skills, Beasital Furry (same as Tigers Furry) is actually the same, but has a slightly higher cost (energy, recharge time, or what exactly I can't remember). So if I'm counting right, that's 304 new skills without the 26 duplicates, and they are promoting over 300, so they aren't lying, which is good.

But here are my problems with it.
1) There were a TON of skills in the original game. Which translates to a TON of icons/skill names to memorize so you understand your opponents build. I don't care if these skills are in both Prophesies Campaign and Factions Campaign, but if they were the same icon/skill name, it would be less to memorize. Not that I use flash cards and study these, but through playing I have memorized the general capability of most original skills. This trend sounds like a pain from this point of view.
2) Duplicating one skill on your skill bar. I admit, there is a new necro blood skill that's like Touch of Agony I probably will use in addition to Touch of Agony. This kind of devalues the importance of Echo skills (therefore Mesmer secondary) and Glyph of Renewal.

I don't know, maybe if ANet balanced the skill a little differently (ex. higher energy cost but faster recharge time), it would be justified. I think Beastial Furry is the only skill that would absolutely positively not be useful to duplicate on one skill bar. At least if that one were different, or just flat out called Tigers Furry).

There's probably some storyline styling reason to call the skill something slightly different, but I don't think this is a good enough reason.

That's my take on it at any rate.

03/27/06 17:53

Wulfgar Fireblade

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

Meh, I agree somewhat. I saw Vampiric Bite (pretty much Vmapiric Touch :P), but there are a quite a few duplicates. But some of the new ones make up for it, some skills are pretty cool.

Still, coming up with 75 new skills for each existing profession, plus the two new ones for every campaign can be quite the challenge...especially by the time campaign 6 or 7 hits.

I thought of it this way. Sometimes I'm looking just for basic damage skills, ones without sacrifice, enchantments, whatever. Then you can just casually take some "duplicated" skills for adventuring or whatever.

Off-topic, yay! 200th post!

Wulfgar Fireblade (W/Mo) | Aryanna Flamebearer (E/Me) | Florin Stormbow (R/*) | Flaye Soulstealer (N/Me) | Dracio Spiritbinder (Rt/Me) | Laiya Divinelight (Mo/Me) | Ryu Daggerdance (A/Mo) | Doctor Jung (*/* - PvP)

03/27/06 18:02

Nihil Zarathustra

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/14/2005
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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I dont mind. Now i'm going to be an even more effective smiting monk. I get SoJ + 2X holy strike.. or i can throw down 2 symbols of wrath.

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

03/27/06 18:06

Wulfgar Fireblade

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

Exaclty :) Easier skill spamming, without the Arcane Echo/Echo :D

03/27/06 18:07

TalonWoJ

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Joined: 11/06/2005
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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I have no problem with them at all.

You scored as Monk. You are a Monk: You are an essential piece of any team, keeping the party alive and well-protected. You are always the first target for enemies, so be careful!

Monk

75%

Elementalist

65%

Mesmer

55%

Warrior

50%

Ranger

40%

Necromancer

15%

03/27/06 18:07

evil geek

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/18/2005
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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I wonder just exactly how many skills can you give one class before you start to run out of ideas? Your right alot of the new skills seemed to duplicate some we alraedy have, just very small changes. On the plus side that means that those who use Mes as secondary just for Archane Echo won't necessarily need to use it any more, although none of the new elites seemed to be close enough to the original to warrent this. Most of the time AE is for echoing Elites in my experience.

• Guild Wars: Mutants [MU] • Age of Conan: Ampian Forerunners •

03/27/06 18:08

Lunarx1

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

eh i say who cares

03/27/06 18:08

Nihil Zarathustra

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

OOO evil geek you double posted!

hehe gotta do that because you're the new site manager :P

The Official Self Proclaimed Unofficial Cynic of Gameamp

03/27/06 18:09

Riku Darklight

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I don't have any problem with them as well, for one reason:

some good skills should be duplicated so you can have more the same ownage in your skill bar so you can use/cast one first and then use/cast the duplicate next

but as i said earlier it doesn't really bother me and if it bothers you there's one simple solution...
don't use it! :)

Peace,
Riku

03/27/06 18:10

metaverse

Posts: 3
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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I do not know where the duplicates fall, but I did notice that if you sort skills by campaign you get three listings: Core, Prophecies, Factions. This means that some skills will only be availible to people who have the campaign that they are from. Another thing to note is that this was a beta test so things could still change between now and release.

Rage the Berserk-lvl 20 War/X
Smiley the Crazed-lvl 20 E/R
Fear the Deranged-lvl 20 Me/Mo
Angry the Insane-lvl 20 Mo/Rt
Trust the Wise-lvl 20 A/N
Hate the Righteous-lvl 20 D/E

03/27/06 18:26

evil geek

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

QUOTE

OOO evil geek you double posted!

Darn! busted :(

Edit: used my super powered admin delete button muahahahaaa

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

• Guild Wars: Mutants [MU] • Age of Conan: Ampian Forerunners •

03/27/06 18:28

mooseyfate

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

QUOTE

Ha, grats on reaching 200 posts.

Good point about skills over the long run. I did consider that over the weekend, but forgot about it when posting. Some of the skills they came up with were really clever. I can think of plenty of other skills, but probably just enough for another 1, maybe 2 expansions. But I still find two skills for the same exact thing annoying. The easiest ones to come up with variations for are the Warriors. Just like executioners strike, but less adrenaline and less damage. Another point in ANet's favor is that balance for all these slightly different skills would be annoying.

I still don't like it any more, but this isn't a deal breaker. I still plan to get it when it comes out. The only deal breaker for me has been the two character discount for no money discount (character discount meaning you get two less if you tie it to a Prophesies account). That one really really bothers me, but I think I'll get Factions after it comes out anyways. But this is getting off topic, so I'll stop (see link below for more).

http://guildwars.gameamp.com/forum/showTopic/27257.php

03/27/06 18:36

van_goghs_ear

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I really dislike the new duplicates, and was kind of choked to see them. I mean 2 inspired hexes? come on...

The game is supposed to be about creating the perfect deck for you player, which happens to contain 8 cards. Having duplicates...to me that's the equiv of allowing 2 elite skills on your bar, it creates imbalance.

04/01/06 10:35

TheGoatMaster

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I think that the duplicates are skills that are there so that people who only buy factions can have some of the origional prophecies skills. Or maybe so that the monsters in game could have them, so you wouldn't just be fighting a bunch of ritualists and assassins? Could one of those be it? I dunno, but I think that touching necros are going to get a lot more powerful.....

I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.-Edgar Allen Poe

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.-Socrates

04/01/06 11:01

van_goghs_ear

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

but all the original skills will be in factions...

04/01/06 11:02

TheGoatMaster

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

QUOTE

but all the original skills will be in factions...

They will? I didn't know that.

I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.-Edgar Allen Poe

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.-Socrates

04/01/06 11:04

cswella

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/30/2005
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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

I'm under the impression that the skill sets for Prophecies and Factions will be seperated. For example, you won't be able to use Tiger's Fury in Factions and Beastial Frenzy(?) in Prophecies.

This is the easiest way for Anet to balance skills and provide originality. Otherwise you will see all the same builds in Factions.

This assumption is further supported by the Skills List (Core), (Factions), and (Prophecies).

Panda Points x 7

04/01/06 11:07

KahlanXvii

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

Nope only the core skills will be in factions. Thats why some skill are duplicated, so that ppl that only have factions will not have a disadvantage.

ANAKIN EQUALS WIN Questionable Tactics[Hax]

04/01/06 11:07

van_goghs_ear

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

then doesn't this give people with merged accounts an unfair advantage in certain cases?

04/01/06 11:10

Genesis_Dragon

Posts: 64
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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

Not really, because the skills are area specific.

If I add Beastial Frenzy in The Marketplace and then travel to Lion's Arch, Beastial Frenzy will have gone from my Skill Bar I'm assuming. I will then replace it with Tiger's Fury.

04/01/06 11:16

cswella

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

QUOTE

then doesn't this give people with merged accounts an unfair advantage in certain cases?

How do you mean? I'm guessing that PvP for Factions will be in another location than PvP for Prophecies. And you can't use Factions skill in PvE Prophecies.

Panda Points x 7

04/01/06 11:16

van_goghs_ear

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

are you guys certain of this or are you speculating? I know in preview weekend they did not have a unique location for factions characters to duke it out, and you could enter alliance battles through your guild hall bringing whatever skills you wanted...I know that was just a preview, but I was under the impression that factions would be bringing a larger array of skills to the table, and not simply replacing the old ones with new pseudonyms. I don't know, I'm still a little confused as to how the expansion will effect the current landscape of guildwars. I was also under the impression based on what they said that regardless of whether or not you had factions, you could still play side by side with factions toons, thus suggesting that there is not a unique arena for factions players.

In fact just read the FAQ from the official gw site:

The majority of PvP encounters take place on a new continent: Battle Isles. All players from Guild Wars and Guild Wars Factions will engage in combat on the Battle Isles, although two lower-level PvP areas—the Ascalon Arena and the Shiverpeak Arena—will remain in Tyria and will be accessible on that continent rather than on Battle Isles.

If you purchase Factions, you will be able to travel to the new land, Cantha, with your Ascended characters from Guild Wars (original Prophecies campaign). Inventory items, skills, and other possessions and attainments from Guild Wars remain yours and remain useable within Guild Wars Factions.

04/01/06 11:32

Wulfgar Fireblade

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

No I remember that I read somewhere, players with more campaigns will have an edge (more skills), because the game said that you can travel across continents (if you have both campaigns), with any profession, with any type of items. I'm guessing that if you have Factions skills, and you have Prophecies skills, then you can have both, anywhere. Also, if it meant that you wouldn't have any of your Prophecies skills in Factions, then what's the point of obtaining all of them?

Remember, ANet said that GW will always be balanced, but players with both campaigns will have more selection.

*About the Duplicates: The dupes are mostly created (I think) for Factions only players. I checked GuildWiki last night, and Silverwing Slash is the *Factions* duplicate of Galrath Slash. I guess if you only own Factions, you have a "taste" of the Prophecies Skills.

EDIT: Missed a few words :P

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

04/01/06 11:32

Riotpoll

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

*Goes to make a Dark Aura necro*

04/02/06 15:03

mooseyfate

Posts: 8
Joined: 07/15/2005
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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

Ha, Riot, that's exactly what I'll be doing too. Just because I don't like it, doesn't mean I won't use it to my advantage. They better not debuff it just because of the duplicate skills though.

Press "K" (skill menu), then from the drop down choose "campaign" to sort by. It sorts them into "Core Skills", "Prophesies Campaign", and soon "Factions Campaign". You have access to the core skills, plus all the campaigns you've purchased. So you can equip Tigers Furry and Bestial Furry at once (which is dumb), or Silverwing Slash and Galrath Slash (which is like an echo for a specific skill, and gets into what we don't like). Unbalanced is half the equation, unnecessary waste of mind share the other issue (and the bigger issue for me).

1) Why not just toss those duplicate skills into core skills?
2) If not 1, then why not just put the same exact skill (not a different name/icon) in multiple expansions?
3) The game will be unbalanced in favor of those with all campaigns, with or without duplicate skills. That's fine, but it would be nice if each campaign had it's own lv20 PvP arena (Prophesies does not).

I'll still buy factions, but this is still a poor idea.

04/03/06 15:17

Walter Sickert

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

necessary for solo purchases and adds another dynamic to builds without being obviously overpowering.

QUOTE

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04/03/06 15:25

mooseyfate

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

QUOTE

necessary for solo purchases and adds another dynamic to builds without being obviously overpowering.

I completely dissagree with both these points.

04/03/06 15:32

joepjens

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

QUOTE

necessary for solo purchases and adds another dynamic to builds without being obviously overpowering.

If it was necessary for solo purchases they should have made it a core skill.

Will make a nicer sig when I think of something ^^

04/04/06 12:54

Rainbird

Posts: 21
Joined: 09/26/2005
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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

First of, those who own Prophecies Campaign will have to go to Cantha to purchase the Factions skills and vice-versa. Therefor if you do not own GWF you won't be able to get the new skills...

About the "new" skills which are about the same as some of the skills from another campaign. Factions-owners should be able to have some of the most important skills for balance-purposes... When you own only one campaign you will have access to 50 different skills, the core skill-set and the campaign-specific skill-set.
Per new campaign bought you will gain access to 25 new skills, the new campaign-specific skill-set. ANet can only have 25 core skills, else it would be "cheating" from our point of view.
Let's say you buy Factions without owning Prophecies, you gain the skill-sets, but the core skill-set consist of 29 skills. When you then buy Prophecies you will only have a campaign-specific skill-set consisting of 21 skills. That is the same as saying that ANet is overpricing GWP and underpricing GWF. It has to be equal/balanced... That is why things are the way they are

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04/15/06 14:34

mooseyfate

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RE: What does everyone think of the duplicate skills?

QUOTE

That isn't the issue. They can just put Tigers Furry under both Prophesies and Factions (instead of calling it Beastial Furry for Factions). The bad part is the pointless waste of mind share for players to remember two names and icons for the exact same thing.

04/15/06 15:47

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