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Archangelcoh

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MasterMinds and Patron Powers

What the hell. . .The Master Minds are getting all the \"left over\" powers from each of the patrons. What is the incentive to play to 49 if there is going to be crap waiting for you in the power choice. Do the Dev's think that the MM's are to powerful, so they stuck them with a bunch of holds?! I think that the patron power selection for MM's is a total bust!! Back to the drawing board!!! Every single power casues aggro to the player and not his/her minions. MM's are squishy, so why would anyone want to call MORE attention to themselves, when their pets can take it?

04/02/06 07:40

Shock Trooper 0083

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

i honestly think this is wat u mms get for bein lazy

really i think that u guys need holds to help the team out
plus wat if u hold a mob and ur pets can take em out 1 by 1

Hand of Blood Lvl X Spines/Regen Stalker...Triumph
Mystic Entity lvl 24 Katana/Regen Scrapper...Champion
Panzer Faust Lvl 23 SS/Energy Brute (retired)...Protector
Arbiter Darkwind Lvl 33 Thugs/Dark MM (retired)...Protector

Thanks to Mimori for the great sig

04/02/06 11:32

RonJ73

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

Like CoH's Epic Powers, the Patron Powers are things that DON'T fit your class. That's why the other ATs get things like Summons and the like. Epic Pool Powers are supposed to be things like ranged attacks for Brutes and Stalkers, Armor and Shields for Corruptors and Dominators...things like that. It only makes sense for MMs to get things like holds and control element powers in their PPPs.

City of Heroes/Villains
Onion - L50 - Katana/Super Reflexes/Body Mastery Scrapper
Scotch Bonnet Girl - L50 - Fire Aura/Fire Melee/Pyre Mastery Tanker
RonJ73 - L50 - Stone/Energy Aura Brute
Aurora Australis - L50 - Willpower/Energy Melee Tanker

04/02/06 13:06

VinceVoltage

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

I agree with Archangel on this one; the Patron powers for MMs are pretty crappy. I know the patron/epic power sets are supposed to give you what your set doesn't have, but look at things: all the other sets get to summon stuff now. Now EVERYONE can be a high level whatever their AT is and get the best of a low level MM too. I mean, there are a couple powers for other ATs where you can summon 3 of something (I can't remember right this second and don't feel like pulling up the list) that are one level lower than you...that's the equivalent to having a level 18 MM in addition to your powers! That's insane. Whereas MMs get an extra attack, armor, or at best a hold power. Well whoopty-freakin-doo. What do we need more holds for? Every single MM with Devices secondary is stuck with Web Grenade. We've also got Dark MMs with Petrifying Gaze, Poison MMs with Paralytic Poison & Poison Trap, Trick Arrow MMs with Entanglement Arrow & Ice Arrow...what the heck do we need MORE holds for? Its rediculous.

I like idea of armor & an another attack (maybe). But the holds for us are crap. And our big Patron/epic power is a hold. Oh joy. So now you're gonna take away what makes MMs different from everyone else and give the MMs an extra hold power to compensate us. Bullcrap. Come on, devs...think things out a little more, would ya?

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04/02/06 17:35

Lythos

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

QUOTE

What the hell. . .The Master Minds are getting all the \\"left over\\" powers from each of the patrons. What is the incentive to play to 49 if there is going to be crap waiting for you in the power choice. Do the Dev's think that the MM's are to powerful, so they stuck them with a bunch of holds?! I think that the patron power selection for MM's is a total bust!! Back to the drawing board!!! Every single power casues aggro to the player and not his/her minions. MM's are squishy, so why would anyone want to call MORE attention to themselves, when their pets can take it?

ugh

I feared this same idiotic complaint would reach Gameamp

MMS can get 6/7/8 pets do we really need more?

MMs DO need controll and some attacks
Sadly IM not like most people im the person who TAKES MM attacks and likes them

04/02/06 20:46

Zokushi

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

I already posted my responses to htese powers in the General board, but I'll summarize here.

MMs don't need another single target hold. - The single we get from our secondaries is already a mag3 and if you are ninja you have a pet (oni) that can perma hold any mob you target him at including bosses. I've gotten to 34 without using paralytic poison (/poison's hold) and I Won't be picking it up till 35 for sheer lack of anything else to pick up.

Cone damage = big aggro - Unless you are a PFF using MM that does the cone then hides, or you pick up phase shift for that 30 seconds invuln, a cone damage is going to get you killed. The last thing any MM wants is the mobs looking at them. DM can heal itself atleast, but the rest of us have to either take aid self or do our best not to get any aggro. Most MMs (myself included) do not take ANY of our attack powers because of this. Our pets are supposed to be the damage.

L/S DR and DEF isn't very useful PVE or PVP - We have the lowest HP in the game, mitigating a little of it, while nice wont save us for one big reason: We have no status protection. Give us another toggle and it's just another thing to drop when a minion or a player uses a massive mag1 hold or stun on us. The DEF armor is useless in PVP since it's so easy to overcome using to-hit such as Aim + buildup.

While I'm glad we're getting epic pools finally, MM sort of got the shot end of the stick. We needed status protection armor, maybe a big single target damager to finish a foe off, maybe some sort of pet buff or heal (like a pet rez). It's nie that they claim to be giving all ATs things their AT doesn't have already, but MM can't use what they're giving us near as effectively as the other ATs can.

All said, I'll probably take Scorpion for my Patron as a Ninja/poison just for the two roots with -jump -fly for PVP.

**editted addition**

In polite response to Ronj: These powers aren't 'additions' to our pools either. As Ninja/ I have a Cone Damage already, Fistfull of Arrows, and I'm relatively certain the other pet ATs do aswell. Sure, it doesn't do an immo, but unless I'm planning to fire it off and run for the hills (bad idea since pets lose supremacy) that doesn't do much anyway.

The armor is an addition, but as I stated earleir not a very useful one.

All MM secondaries get a single target hold already (I think, not sure on FF.. detention field?) so that isn't an addition either.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type First Think Later
------------------------------------------------------------------------
City of Villians/Heros - Virtue Shard (Roleplayer)
34 Ninja/Poison Mastermind - Violet Lotus Flower
32 MA/Regen Scrapper - Oritsu-Kieshu
** Ninja/Dark Mastermind - Zokushii Baikokudo
------------------------------------------------------------------------

04/02/06 22:08

Sapir

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

Meh, I dont know about anybody else, but I'm not worried about Epic/Patron Powers at all. I want Villain-Hammi-O's! I've got too much on my plate as it is. Add another attack or hold, and I'll explode. Just let me slot for MAX damage for me and my bots, and I'll be blissfully ignorant of whatever Patron I choose. Or (being a badge-hoor) give me all of the Patron Badges, and I'll give up any powers from 'em.

To be honest, at least from my build; I have the choices of darn near every power-type in the game. Name one power/effect that a MasterMind cant already put on the table. Okay, perhaps I cant send my enemies screaming directly to the 9th Circle of Hell, but I can get 'em pretty darn close.

:Edit here for another thought:
Maybe we can just consider this the MM nerf, and be done with it. Everyone's been screaming for us (and stalkers) to be nerfed anyway.

I am MasterMind...Dont Patronize me. Patron! I dont need no steenking Patron. I am a Patron! (Hmmm, can I use another Patron here, I dont know if I have enough) Patron, Patron, Patron. (yeah, that's about right)

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

04/03/06 06:21

BishopDon

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

***takes Sapir's coffee and caffeine drinks***

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04/03/06 09:12

Archgardian

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

I do agree that the MM's patron powers are so-so. I think the armor is cool and i dont think we need the extra attacks b/c our henchman do all the fighting. No more holds. I got enough holds available from DM and my henchmen hold as well. Isnt a dominator supposed 2 hold stuff not us. With holds this many playing an MM will bo so ez and useless. Hold mob send henchmen into the slaughter. No strategy in this. Hold kill, hold kill, and so on and so on. With these we r pretty much master dominators mixed wiht a tank's armor. It does sound cool and all but it is just too much. I though the patron powers were going 2 be something like accolade powers or u get to use the actuall gladioator badges outside of the arena.

Like calling the wolf spiders force 2 attack a target or somthing besides holds and armor.

04/03/06 12:44

Zokushi

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

I just want to re-iterrate the uselessness of the armor from PPPs.

We have NO mez protection at all. A mag 1 hold/stun/sleep will drop any toggle we're running. That means minions can detoggle us. And any hero class with any kind of hold/stun/sleep. The armor can't protect us if it isn't ever up.

I also wouldn't get your hopes up to have it be 'tank' armor. At best I'd go for 12% .. maybe. And we have the lowest HP of any AT in the game so that doesn't do much.

Sorry to sound like a downer but the more I analyze the choices the more discouraged I am. Still thinking web grenades ...

Thankfully, my MM is pretty solid without PPPs, and I suppose the other classes could've used a boost to catch up to us in PVE.

04/04/06 00:31

Sapir

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

Hehehe, well, ya got me there, BD. :he wants to take the Precious away: Yeah. I guess sometimes I might be a little frenetic with my posts. :we cant allow that, Precious: Whew, yeah, hehehe. :he may have to suffer a terrible accident, yes, Precious: I'm sure that we will be able to find a use for the Patron Powersets, in any event. :we will NOT be separated from glorious caffeine, Precious: We have the example of the Heroes Epic Power Pools. :tricksy BishopDon wont even see it coming, my Precious: It's not as if we were just playing some Lord of the Rings knock-off. Right?

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

04/04/06 03:40

Archgardian

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

QUOTE

SO the armor is not as effective as "tank" armor or at least brute? That really sux. The patron powers for MMs do suck in a way but i think they were trying not 2 give us 2 much since we get another set of henchmen. I think we got the left overs because things need balance. It would be great to get 2 summon ghost widow's shadow or get some of the brutes/stalker powers. Everything needs balance.

04/04/06 04:59

BishopDon

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

**looks for the rest of Sapir's medication...***

Ok, my opinion on the Patron Powers is such, I play with a stalker and a MM (actually a couple of stalkers and a couple of MMs). I can see why the MMs would not get another henchmen, I mean...6 henchmen total...isn't that enough? As it was stated, they want to give us something that the set lacks or that could tap more into another AT set. Now, do I think that the holds they give are good? Can't say for now, however, I'll be trying out different ones on each MM I have. Do I agree that the last hold should be an AoE hold, yes, however, not too dissappointed because I don't know the recharge time of the hold and what it's capable of doing just yet.

At this point, All I can say is...I'm going to have an Electric Stalker...nah nah nah nah nah!!!!

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04/04/06 07:31

Wolf_Boy71

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

this is for the guy(cant remember name right now) who started this...

Oh, settle down...MMs are already a bit too powerful! I think a couple holds would be good for them, if you hold three of four guys and back away so they can't hit you, your minions will have absolutely no problem wiping them out. I may not be one of the higher toons out there but right now, id love a couple holds...

COV
Tech v4.10 lvl 25 bot/dm MM
Grinning Katana lvl 22 katana/super refl. Stalker
Lord Valnoss lvl 22 ninja/dm MM
Discord Incarnate lvl 8 spines/regen Stalker

Guild Wars
Discord Incarnate lvl 10 Necro

I'm working on an article for Grinning Katana, won't be out for a while and I promise it'll be longer than my last article. lol Oh, and Victim, if you're on this site, thanks for all the good times in PvP, you too Upgrades and Aiyon! lol Don't worry, you guys'll be in there! Oh, and this is for you heroes I've beaten,(LOL!!!) Exorg, Devil Hawk, Battlegator.etc. etc. most of the other guys have very confuzing and hard to remember names. lol and Battlegator. that was great when you took all eight of us on and you still won LOL!!! And, finally, Air Shifter, sorry I bailed on Friday!!! I really am!

04/04/06 10:28

blacktomcat

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

I agree with the holds, but not the direct attacks. I think that a MM's primary provides all the direct damage he or she could need. Maybe a couple of extra buffs we can drop on minions, since the 'buffing' secondaries just don't do a lot with buffs (except for FF).

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04/04/06 11:27

Velocity79

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

I have a Merc Mastermind, Natural with Traps. The thing that disapoints me with the new powers are none really seem to fit with Natural. I like making anti heroes/villains. Like my blaster I was hoping for something along the lines of munitions like in heroes. MM's only really get three attack powers and it sucks that we are so squishy. I fight right alongside my troops and the rest of the team. I'm not one who just stands there commanding my soliders with no attack powers, and have yet to be on a team even with a brute that hasn't had my pets go in first (God forbid the Brute gets a bruise). I'm fine with that, but not all of us MM's are lazy or usless to a team. Back to the point, I just wish there was something to go more with my terrorist themed MM.

CoH
Virtue
Jon Q Vigilante

CoV
Virtue
Rogue Jackal
Vicious Nightmare

04/04/06 12:20

BishopDon

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

I guess just one thing to keep in mind as well...no one has to select any of the new Patron Powers. You can continue to select from your prim/sec power pools for those last 4 power slot options.

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04/04/06 12:24

blacktomcat

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

I think the Developers passed up some great opportunities when they chose their patron powers. I mean, Scirocco's and Scorpion's don't even seem to fit in thematically.

Black Widow's are pretty much how I pictured as far as theme. Although I figured that Mako's powers would be a bit more physical in nature, they at least seem to fit.

Scirocco, however, has never given me the impression of having any real connection with the Mu, nor did Scorpion give the impression of an especially strong connection to the Wolf Spiders.

I pictured Scirocco's benefits being centered around his apparent speed and power as one of bearers of the powers of the winds. I figured he'd have various speed-related powers mixed with wind and air-related attacks.

I saw those that followed Black Scorpion as being driven to enhance themselves as he did and saw the possibility of various mechanical enhancements and devices instead of a bunch of powers based upon the Wolf Spiders' (admittedly kinda cool) mace.

Maybe in the future more patron powers will be made available from the various lieutenants such as Barracuda and Silver Mantis that will flesh things out a little better.

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04/04/06 12:59

isaacfarg

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

with scirocco there is stories (on CoH websites) about him being given his power through mages/magical people. he is incharge of the Mu because he sort of started them ( well the arachnos ones) plus it also says there was a hero with same name (if anyone knows anything about that).

with black scorpian i agree that a mace is not really linked to him and should have chosen something else, maybe a wrist blaster or somthing.

04/04/06 13:58

DocVengeance

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

as far as the masterminds "getting the shaft" here's the deal. MMs have pets, some holds and some attacks, the are flexible, so other than armor anything you add would be redundant. As far as the armor of course you dont get mez protection, other than tank/scrap/brute/stalkers no one does, in the COH epics defenders didnt either so not surprised. many of the COV sets seem more rounded so its harder to give you something new without making the toon "too tough". My corr damages and heals if she was armored and had mex protection she'd be unstoppable. So i think that is the 2 reasons you get what you get, heck the other sets look like they think we all have MM envy and need a pet to feel better about ourselves lol.

Doc

04/06/06 07:18

VinceVoltage

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

Yeah but here's the thing...with epic/patron powers, you're supposed to get what your AT lacks, not a piece of everyone else's AT. I mean, in CoH, the Epic powers aren't comparable to what happens to MMs with patrons. In CoH, there's nothing really "special" to each set (besides maybe the Blaster's "nova" attack, but Defenders can get it too at 38). In CoH, its more like the devs said "here you go, we'll give you what your AT needs to be more rounded." In CoV, its like they said "here you go, we'll give you one power from each of the other ATs & let everyone be a low-level Mastermind in addition to whatever they are!" I mean, the thing that makes MMs special is that they can summon minions. Nothing else. If you're gonna take that away from us, you might as well get rid of MMs altogether. Every AT has its specialty. Let the Brutes be maniacs and jump into the middle of battles. Let the Stalkers AS. Let the Doms hold. And let us, and [B]ONLY[/B us, summon our minions.

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04/06/06 12:56

DocVengeance

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

Well i dont have much interest in getting pets for mine, but keep in mind, my dom has a pet, but it's "dumb" MMs strength is that they have the ability to control pets, tell them when to attack and whom to attack. dont get me wrong, i dont much like the sets, but a brute having a pet is nothing like him being an MM. As far as mez protection, cant MMs control pets when mzzed or at least they keep fighting or was that changed (i know it stops you from healing them etc)

Curious what powers do you think the MM "should" get.

Doc

oh and all the Dom power pools have holds whew been waiting 43 levels for that! personally I dont think MMs are getting shaft i think the pools overall are kinda stinky.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Current Faves:
COV:
Doc Mandrake L50 Plant/Thorn -269 Badges
Katie 80 L50 NRG/Therm Corr
Radicator L50 Sonic/Rad Corr- 192 Badges
Deadpan L50 Dark/Dark Brute
Luther Rogue L47 Thug MM

COH:
Doc Vengeance L50 Dark Dark Dark Def
Sabrina Reborn L37 PB
Doc Vengence L50 DM/SR Scrapper
Neutron Princess L34 rad/sonic Def

04/07/06 07:45

BishopDon

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

QUOTE

As far as mez protection, cant MMs control pets when mzzed or at least they keep fighting or was that changed (i know it stops you from healing them etc)

No. If a henchmen is mezzed, they do not keep fighting. You can heal and buff them, however, no fighting they will do. You can even send them a command, but they will not execute the command until the mez wears off.

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04/07/06 08:12

blacktomcat

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

QUOTE

As far as mez protection, cant MMs control pets when mzzed or at least they keep fighting or was that changed (i know it stops you from healing them etc)

I think they meant that MM's can control their minions even when the MM is mez'd. I don't know if it's possible. Does anyone know?

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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04/07/06 08:31

BishopDon

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RE: MasterMinds and Patron Powers

QUOTE

As far as mez protection, cant MMs control pets when mzzed or at least they keep fighting or was that changed (i know it stops you from healing them etc)

I think they meant that MM's can control their minions even when the MM is mez'd. I don't know if it's possible. Does anyone know?

Yes we can. If I get mezz'd...which happens real frequently, I can still send my henchmen commands that they will follow. The usual command is to attack whoever mezzed me to keep them from killing me.

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04/07/06 09:23

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