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Atkunra
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My friend Mike committed suicide shortly after his 25th birthday, his parents are working to help set up a foundation to help other kids who are dealing with issues of suicide. The church of scientology is opposing this because of their belief that psychology is flawed, and while I welcome them to their opinion this foundation could help many trouble kids.
This is the letter she shared with me. If anyone has a moment of time and could send an email, I would greatly appreciate it. Michael was a good guy and he did several web comics, Dr. Lobster was one of his most popular.
Thanks for listening,
Michael Musial
I’m writing in hopes you will be willing to send a few emails to the legislators in Tallahassee to help get the above mentioned bills passed. These two bills, HB 999 and SB 1876 will establish the SOS (Signs of Suicide) program as a pilot program in the high schools in the Central Florida Legislative District, and call for matching funds with the Michael Buonauro Foundation - $600,000 to put the program into Osceola, Seminole and Brevard Counties. As you know, Frank and I have already paid for the SOS program, through the Michael Buonauro Foundation, to be in all high schools in Orange County. So far over 150 children have come forward seeking help. We feel we are making a difference.
Our hope is that once the program is established in the Central Florida District and proven itself, it will then be put into all schools in the State. The central Florida area is a test area.
Our problem is that we are encountering resistance from the Scientologists who are bombarding (3000 emails last week) the legislators with anti-SOS emails. Therefore it is necessary to show that there are just as many concerned parents who are in favor of the SOS program and want it established in the schools.
Would you email the following people and tell them that you are in favor of the SOS program?
For SB#1876:
campbell.walter.web@flsenate.gov
Senator Campbell chairs the kids and families committee which will hear SB 1876 next Tuesday.
For HB #999:
Dennis.baxley@myfloridahouse.gov
Representative Baxley chairs the Education Council committee which will hear HB 999 next Tuesday.
Please forward this on to as many people that you feel would look favorably on this legislation and ask them to email also.
Thank you so much,
Judy Buonauro
Michael’s mom always
May 27 1979 – may 28 2004
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| 04/14/06 09:21 |
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thejeni
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Why exactly is the church of scientology against this? It seems odd that they wouldn't want to help out troubled kids.
I'll be sending an email later today.
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| 04/14/06 12:06 |
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Atkunra
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From what I understand their contention is that the program will involve the youths talking with licensed counselors and psychologist that might or might not prescribe medication.
The church of Scientology is fairly large in central Florida. They contend that the money for the program will be coming from the pharmaceutical companies, which is not true. All the money is coming from the Michael Buonauro Foundation.
The church of Scientology has a very unique view on Psychology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry
Hope this helps.
Atkunra Kamael
Cleric of the 4th Circle,
Paladin of the First
The original Father Drop-Kick
------------------------------
Simetra Stormsong,
Bard of the 2nd Verse
Adventurer Extraordinaire
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| 04/14/06 12:34 |
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blackphoenix
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Well, I dunno, but it sounds to me like those scientology ppl need a psychiatrist.
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| 04/14/06 12:52 |
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Ozone_Friendly
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Yeah scientologists hate Psychiatry... prevention programs lead to kids going to to get help and talking to psychiatris and or being perscribed medication, which to them is a bad thing. Probably because if any of the quack pots actually went to a psychiatrist they would find out they are in a cult... but anyway here is an article on it from the Tampa tribune about a month ago.
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| 04/14/06 12:56 |
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thejeni
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Thanks for the article Oz, I never even knew they were trying to get programs like this up everywhere. What a wonderful idea!!!
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| 04/14/06 14:45 |
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Loosing friends this way sucks! I've lost a few friends while I grew up and now that I'm a parent myself I'm obviously no less interested in helping kids in trouble.
I volunteer as a Guardian Ad Litem, which is a spokes person for children under the protection of the court. I'm the eyes and ears of the judge.
Besides playing Ghost Recon online : ) few things are more satisfying than helping others. Being from Sweden which has a very high suicide rate I've been rather aware of the problem. The cry for help, which most seem to be, must be heard.
Now that I live in the US I've done a lot of research and found some big discrepancies from what the "experts" say and do. Scientology by all accounts seem to have caught on to the same things as far as I can tell. Which is that psychiatry seem more interested in lining their pockets than helping others. For example, insurance companies are discovering that people are mysteriously getting well as soon as they run out of insurance money...
Just look at quotes from these papers: (The DSM is a billing manual.)
"Every psychiatric expert involved in writing the DSM standard diagnostic criteria for disorders such as depression and schizophrenia has had financial ties to drug companies that sell medications for those illnesses." - Washington Post April 20. 2006
"No blood tests exist for the disorders in the DSM. It relies on judgments from practitioners who rely on the manual." - USA Today April 20, 2006
"In recent years, critics have said that the manual has become too expansive, including diagnoses, like social phobia, that they say appear tailor-made to create a market for antidepressants or other drugs." - New York Times April 20, 2006.
I was told to drug my child because of having a pronunciation problem, mainly due to a gap in her front teeth. (The answer is not drugs but braces.) Which led me to investigating psych drugs.
I'm sure you've heard about the shootings at Columbine. The kids who did the shooting was on serious psych drugs. In fact so far most of the school shootings turns out to be done by kids on psych drugs. These drugs are rated on the same level as cocaine!
So as much as you may want to help friends from committing suicide, I really don't feel that psychiatry has the answers, but are taking a free ride on others misfortune.
If you google for teenscreen you'll find that suicide rates have gone up in the schools where they test the program. Now they seem to be trying to change the name to get away with it. No I think you better raise your awareness of who this wolf in sheep skin really is.
PF_Kirian (New on GameAmp)
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| 04/24/06 15:21 |
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thejeni
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Welcome to the site, PF_Kirian. It seems you timed out on your post. Most of the time it is best to click the "remember me" box when you sign in, that way you don't have to worry about timing out while posting.
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| 04/24/06 16:16 |
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Skiddy
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| QUOTE | My friend Mike committed suicide shortly after his 25th birthday, his parents are working to help set up a foundation to help other kids who are dealing with issues of suicide. The church of scientology is opposing this because of their belief that psychology is flawed, and while I welcome them to their opinion this foundation could help many trouble kids.
This is the letter she shared with me. If anyone has a moment of time and could send an email, I would greatly appreciate it. Michael was a good guy and he did several web comics, Dr. Lobster was one of his most popular.
Thanks for listening,
Michael Musial
I’m writing in hopes you will be willing to send a few emails to the legislators in Tallahassee to help get the above mentioned bills passed. These two bills, HB 999 and SB 1876 will establish the SOS (Signs of Suicide) program as a pilot program in the high schools in the Central Florida Legislative District, and call for matching funds with the Michael Buonauro Foundation - $600,000 to put the program into Osceola, Seminole and Brevard Counties. As you know, Frank and I have already paid for the SOS program, through the Michael Buonauro Foundation, to be in all high schools in Orange County. So far over 150 children have come forward seeking help. We feel we are making a difference.
Our hope is that once the program is established in the Central Florida District and proven itself, it will then be put into all schools in the State. The central Florida area is a test area.
Our problem is that we are encountering resistance from the Scientologists who are bombarding (3000 emails last week) the legislators with anti-SOS emails. Therefore it is necessary to show that there are just as many concerned parents who are in favor of the SOS program and want it established in the schools.
Would you email the following people and tell them that you are in favor of the SOS program?
For SB#1876:
campbell.walter.web@flsenate.gov
Senator Campbell chairs the kids and families committee which will hear SB 1876 next Tuesday.
For HB #999:
Dennis.baxley@myfloridahouse.gov
Representative Baxley chairs the Education Council committee which will hear HB 999 next Tuesday.
Please forward this on to as many people that you feel would look favorably on this legislation and ask them to email also.
Thank you so much,
Judy Buonauro
Michael’s mom always
May 27 1979 – may 28 2004 |
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| 04/24/06 20:44 |
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Skiddy
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Seems to me odd that they have to make laws to get people to get mental health testing. They don't force you to see a regular doctor, do they? Why be forced to see some head shrink? I think it's because no one wants anything to do with the shrinks, so they get a bunch of people to give a lot of money to the people who make laws that you gotta see a head shrink because otherwise they would go broke. I for one don't want to be forced to do anything, much less be forced to see get mental health testing and see a shrink. If it was good, people would want it, they wouldn't have to pass laws about it to force you.
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| 04/24/06 20:49 |
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Ozone_Friendly
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| QUOTE | | Seems to me odd that they have to make laws to get people to get mental health testing. They don't force you to see a regular doctor, do they? Why be forced to see some head shrink? I think it's because no one wants anything to do with the shrinks, so they get a bunch of people to give a lot of money to the people who make laws that you gotta see a head shrink because otherwise they would go broke. I for one don't want to be forced to do anything, much less be forced to see get mental health testing and see a shrink. If it was good, people would want it, they wouldn't have to pass laws about it to force you. |
It doesn't seem like a law forcing you to get screening, it seems like a basic funding law of which there are tons, this one to have some money devoted to teen suicide prevention programs, which wouldn't force anyone to do anything. Much like public school funding, or transportation and road bills, or any other number of bills that are passed to fund various things. Hey PF can you give me the links to those articles you posted, I'd like to read the full article where they came from if possible.
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| 04/24/06 23:28 |
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pf_kirian
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Well, let's see... Two require registration. But they are free.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/hea...ack=1&cset=true
http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://g...HQ20HHjHQ7Bf_qp
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-04
Someone was pointing out that the psych industry is heavily funded by the government or they would apparently run out of business.
It's a bit of a shocker, when you think they have the mind all figured out. Then I discovered from a Professor emeritus of psychiatry no less, that there is no such thing as chemical imbalance. He showed a copy of their billing manual, and said that new disorders are voted in by popular demand. That's how "scientific" it is. Did you know jetlag is a disorder? How about developmental-arithmetic disorder if you have problem with math? If you argue with your parents you have a oppositional-defiant disorder! If yo don't want to be drugged then they have one for that too!
You start googling and you find thing like these two:
http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/lopez200409081130.asp
http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1997/july97/suicide.html
I don't have the link, but Teenscreen was tested in Oklahoma City and the suicides went UP. So when I see people expecting help from psychiatry I get awefully suspicious. People are killing themselves and others after getting on these "psychotropic" drugs they always want to prescribe. (If nothing else you learn new words :)
Anyway, I feel sorry for surviving friends and family. I just feel betrayed and outraged from reading about these guys who portray to help. You look at the shootings of Pres Reagan and John Lennon, kids in Columbine. Adolf Hitler. They all have psych drugs in common. The shooters were on psych drugs, and well, I think you know about Hitler.
Fortunately my kid is doing great. She just scored over 1600 (out of 1700) on a reading test in school. She would not take drugs if you paid her. : )
I hope you get to terms with your buddy killing himself, as you can see I don't think help is where you expect it.
Google on 'psychiatric drugs death'. Just leave your lights on...
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| 04/27/06 21:57 |
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LhazaarCorl
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| QUOTE | | Seems to me odd that they have to make laws to get people to get mental health testing. They don't force you to see a regular doctor, do they? Why be forced to see some head shrink? I think it's because no one wants anything to do with the shrinks, so they get a bunch of people to give a lot of money to the people who make laws that you gotta see a head shrink because otherwise they would go broke. I for one don't want to be forced to do anything, much less be forced to see get mental health testing and see a shrink. If it was good, people would want it, they wouldn't have to pass laws about it to force you. |
Being *forced* to see a psychologist/psychiatrist does not sound that good to me.
*However*, they do help. The problem is that many people still think seeing one is a bad thing. If you've got pneumonia, a broken leg, or large cut, you see a doctor, right? They help you get better. Not seeing a doctor might may cause the problem to be worse, even fatal.
It's the same thing for a psychiatrist/psychologist. If you spend so much time worrying about little things, or feel like life isn't worth living, you need to talk to someone. A friend/family member might be able to help, but these doctors will be able to help you more. Some times it involves medication, sometimes not.
If I hadn't seen one, I could very well be dead myself at this point. I'm much happier and much less anxious these days. (And I'm not on medication, so you can't say it's becaouse of that.)
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| 04/28/06 08:17 |
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pf_kirian
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My experience is that it's more your own inherent ability to get better because someone is listening.
Psychologists are not as dangerous as psychiatrists, but they are all so drug happy it's frightening. They make money every time you get on one so you can see that it's in their interest. I got a picture of one of those psychs behind the suicide thing with a huge paycheck from one of the drug companies.
It's good you did not end up on drugs. My daughter used to have a best friend who got put on psych drugs. Soon she had unpredictable mood swings. Would just turn on her best friend for no apparent reason. Eventually her manners got so bad my daughter just had to stop talking with her all together.
She were on these drugs after her parents having been told she to suffer from ADHD. Of course every kid "suffers" from that. It is normal to not have problems with attention span when you are young. A kid is supposed to be lively. But some parents can deal with the noise and so drug them.
Actually I have a funny story. My mom had a job which ended up placing her at a "funny farm". Soon many troubled, and supposedly dangerous patients were getting better.
After a while they discovered that my mom were simply giving them small responsibilities. She was immediately stopped, and the patients soon got worse again.
I guess that wrecked things. Patients could not just be getting better, who know what would happen, they told her.
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| 04/28/06 10:51 |
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LhazaarCorl
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| QUOTE | My experience is that it's more your own inherent ability to get better because someone is listening.
Psychologists are not as dangerous as psychiatrists, but they are all so drug happy it's frightening. They make money every time you get on one so you can see that it's in their interest. I got a picture of one of those psychs behind the suicide thing with a huge paycheck from one of the drug companies.
It's good you did not end up on drugs. My daughter used to have a best friend who got put on psych drugs. Soon she had unpredictable mood swings. Would just turn on her best friend for no apparent reason. Eventually her manners got so bad my daughter just had to stop talking with her all together.
She were on these drugs after her parents having been told she to suffer from ADHD. Of course every kid "suffers" from that. It is normal to not have problems with attention span when you are young. A kid is supposed to be lively. But some parents can deal with the noise and so drug them.
Actually I have a funny story. My mom had a job which ended up placing her at a "funny farm". Soon many troubled, and supposedly dangerous patients were getting better.
After a while they discovered that my mom were simply giving them small responsibilities. She was immediately stopped, and the patients soon got worse again.
I guess that wrecked things. Patients could not just be getting better, who know what would happen, they told her. |
*chuckle* Methinks we should stop before we start a flame war on each other. This will be my last post on this topic. Feel free to "get the last word".
* I did see both a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Neither tried to push drugs on me. They wanted to do that as a last resort.
* They helped by showing me where my thought patterns were going off course. It's an ugly analogy, but I kinda think of your grey matter as computer hardware and your thought processes as software. If you pick up bad thought patterns while you're young, you can't just go in and replace "code". You need to retrain your software. In my case, I was overly anxious: I was always worried about whether what I was doing or saying was annoying or offending people. I needed to retrain my brain to stop this. This is where the doctors came in, showing me where I was going off course, and teaching me ways of either staying on course or getting back on course. Many friends listened, but none were able to help.
* I actually wish I had gone sooner. I would've had a lot happier time as a teenager. But, psychiatrists/psychologists have this bad reputation. I wonder where that comes from?
* If someone *has proof* that doctors are being paid to prescribe drugs, the person should get that information out. Those doctors/drug companies need to be brought before the courts. This doesn't just apply to doctors: home inspectors, judges, police officers, politicians, athletes, and many others have specific jobs/services for which they are not allowed to take money. There probably are some bad apples, but you don't need to throw out the whole barrel.
* Speaking of drugs, I do know several people on them. They do enjoy life. I don't see any mood swings. Which brings us to...
* If your daughter's friend is worse off on the drugs, said friend's parents should be taking her/him to a new doctor. (Assuming they've complained to the current doctor.) If you had a medical problem and your Medical doctor is making your condition worse, are you going to continue seeing him/her? (Yes, this happens too. The bad doctor usually winds up on the wrong end of a malpractice suit.)
* As for your mother's time working at an institution, I just have to trust you on that one. Just like you have to trust me that I'm truthfully relating my observations.
If anyone else reading this is thinking of seeing a psychiatrist/psychologist, I *highly* recommend it. You can protect yourself from some of the above bad apples though:
* Get multiple opinions if a doctor immediately says "Meds!"
or anything else that sounds major or outright whacked.
* If you do go on a medication, *report* to your doctor if your condition worsens or there are other serious side effects, like mood swings.
* If you make such a report and your doctor doesn't listen, get another opinion.
I'm pretty sure all of the above apply to Medical doctors as well. (Surgery anyone?) They also apply to other things, such as home repair. ("Could you fix this crack in the wall?" "I'll have to replace the whole house to do that." That's another good time to get a second opinion.)
So I've wandered off course from this forum's purpose: D&D. I think it's a little more important that people realize these doctors are there to help if help is needed/wanted. If I've offended or annoyed you, my apologies. But I'm not going to worry about it.
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| 04/28/06 13:44 |
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thejeni
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| QUOTE | | Methinks we should stop before we start a flame war on each other. |
I agree.
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| 04/28/06 16:25 |
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pf_kirian
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If you feel it worked for you then power to you. I'm not interested in a flame and never felt we were.
As far as corruption goes it's very true, and what I've seen there is a lot of people in Congress asking for investigations and stuff so something will probably end up being done about what I've observed.
We can agree that we have different experiences, you are for it and I'm against it. We both have our background and that's part of being alive. Each have his own experiences.
If we can have a civilized discussion with completely different views then I think more power to us!
Good luck!
P.S. I don't know what games you play, I used to be heavily into Ghost Recon, but I'll say hello if I see you. : )
I'm looking at getting back into some game, but my time is still limited. I thought I'd start by slowly fish around.
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| 04/28/06 18:09 |
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LhazaarCorl
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*chuckle* You're right, I definitely should not have said "flame war". My apologies ;-) . Oh well, live & learn.
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| 04/28/06 19:44 |
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Ozone_Friendly
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| QUOTE | | *chuckle* You're right, I definitely should not have said "flame war". My apologies ;-) . Oh well, live & learn. |
Hey no problems, as long as it doesn't get vicious and or personal, we all have opinions and strong ones as well. I was a philosophy major in college, and forceful and decapitating arguments were a fact of life. I don't think anyone here minds a healthy debate. I just try my best to filter myself. However even me, a crazy( and god like staffer :P er something...) still can write things that can be inciteful or un "pc". I just haven't seen a locked thread on this forum yet and wouldn't wanna have to do it :)
p.s. I argue better in person anyway, because I've never been able to spell, and phil ruined my sentance structure... read some I swear some guys can make one sentance into 3 or 4 pages :P
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| 04/28/06 21:49 |
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| RE: Help.... (psychiatry or not) |
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Oh, nothing to apologize for! : )
I too have a philosophy background. I also studied ethics which is not much into trying to be socially correct. Things just are what they are.
The problem with written messages is that you often cannot tell how someone is feeling. If he's like on the border of exploding or something. Plus sometimes things can be read to mean something different.
Nobody wants to be mistreated and it's easy, sitting here behind a keyboard, to lash out. But both acting in an adult manner...
The subject at hand, psychiatry, is a hot subject with lots of people having had good experiences and lots of people having died. I feel it's a bit like Russian roulette (spinning a six cylinder gun with only one bullet, hoping it won't fire when you aim it to your head). Whereas you feel it might have saved your life.
Obviously we are both right.
Obviously the statement, from a logical viewpoint, cannot be entirely right. But neither can deny the others experience.
So in pursuit of the truth, which I think we both are, we can conclude there's something which has not been revealed. How so different experiences can be had. Don't you agree?
Looking at these psychotropic drugs (mind altering) there are a lot of people who think it's fantastic. And yet we have people going on suicide and killing spree's after taking them. It's a dichotomy (two opposing).
How can something so dangerous be considered good?
I think what it comes down to, is that there are things which has not been revealed.
There's a company (Monsanto) which makes agricultural chemicals who has patented seeds. (Huh!?! You say. How can someone patents seeds?) They genetically altered seed to be more resistive to their pesticide chemicals. Then patented their new seed. Basically managed to force their new seed onto most farmers under threat of lawsuit and now we almost only have their genetically altered seeds in north America. Just so that they could sell more chemicals. Which they do.
Genetically altered food can easily fall into a similar situation as inbreeding. Not enough difference and thus all are susceptible to the same virus. Not enough variation. Plus you can easily ruin the original food value and so on.
So here we have two subjects where I'm sure there are very opposing views.
Indeed we can add people who feel playing games on computers is bad.
The underlying fact, I think we can agree on, is that there is more to it than is publicly known. Missing facts. Which would explain how the above is true.
One thing that seems obvious to me is the money motivation. After seeing people getting killed for a dollar, I think it's clear that anything can be done for money.
Microsoft hires all the attorneys in an area so that they cannot represent their opposition. Very effective if you have a lot of money. Legally speaking it violates the very core of justice.
Drug manufacturers are paying medical and psych doctors to prescribe their "solutions". A typical medical student has four hours of education on vitamins per year. Infact if a med doc heals someone with vitamins he can loose his license. So they are just following what they are learning. Not knowing how good or bad something is.
Money is found everywhere corrupting people's integrity. And you know how it goes. Once lost it's hard to get it back, and much easier to loose even further.
Pills are such an easy solution, and being lazy minded, most of us look for that easy solution.
When I was an admin in a clan (of maybe 50 or more people) every now and then we would hear a guy get in trouble with his wife over playing with us because his priorities were messed up. It was easier for him to play than to handle the problem he obviously had in his relationship.
Truth be told he probably did not know how to solve it either.
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| 04/29/06 06:31 |
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LhazaarCorl
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| RE: Help.... Monetary Motivation |
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| QUOTE |
One thing that seems obvious to me is the money motivation. After seeing people getting killed for a dollar, I think it's clear that anything can be done for money.
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*nod* I really wish we could find a way around money: reward/pay people for "doing the right thing". If that happened, teachers might get paid what they deserve. CEOs wouldn't have motivation to embezzle from their company. (Hyundai's CEO was arrested for alleged embezzlement the other day.)
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| 04/29/06 07:14 |
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