GameAmp: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

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Lonestar

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WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

The topic says it all. The more I play RPGs, the more and more I see people wanting to play dark evil characters. I have always played the good guy out to fight evil, so I figured I would post this so the dark ones could explain their position. Please..I am being serious - im not lookin for the I play a Black Knight just as you play a Whie Knight - because evil is more fun.

I am going to post what I perceive, and then I will let others chime in and/or educate me.

Do you think you are really scary or cool by being a demon, devil, zombie, psychopath, murderer, wraith, ghost, zombie, slayer, freddy kruger, dark angel, seriph, posessor, blood drinker, etc. etc. etc.

Seriously, am I supposed to be frightend of you?

Do you really think that stuff is cool?

What brings you to embrace such a darkness?

Does it make you feel some kind of rush of power to act evil and such?

Is this a reflection of your real life?

I even made a Dark Defender to see if I felt any different, but I did not - actually felt kinda icky.

Any ways - dark ones! Fill me in!

-I find your lack of faith -- disturbing - Darth Vader.
-Life debt can never be repaid, it can only be acknowledged.
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10/06/04 23:22

StevieG

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I'll try to explain from my point of view, at least...

I have a couple of "dark evil" characters (as you call them) and they fight for the forces of good. One, because they would just run around the game and do nothing and two, just because they look evil, doesn't mean they are...too a point.

I like my dark heroes because they are the opposite of me in real life. As my dark character, do I watch while other heroes die and not help them...yes. As my dark character, do I help all the citizens being mugged...no. As my dark character, am I out to scare anyone with the way I look? Yeah, kinda, but, not really. Does this mean I have a mental problem with some dark, evil persona waiting to break free? Fuck no! My dark characters are the ying to my real life yang.

To all the questions I just asked up there, the reason I do that when I play my dark characters is because in real life, the way I was raised and my current way of thinking, I would not permit myself to just walk away and do nothing. If I saw anyone in real life in trouble, I would probably get myself and have gotten myself hurt trying to help them. I hate people who take advantage of others and will get in their face and let them know how I feel about what they are doing. I have been in many scrapes and fights doing what I perceive to be the right thing at that time. I would probably run into a burning building if I knew someone was still trapped inside. In some ways, I'm surprised I have lived as long as I have.

Why do I have dark images of myself in the game and play them? Because I would never permit myself, or perceive of myself becoming them in real life. Pure and simple. I "show" my "dark side" in the game, because that is the ONLY place it will ever exist. That's why I'm excited about the City of Villans expansion set coming out in March. It will let me play characters and act in a way I would never even think of acting in real life.

If this doesn't make sense, I'll try to explain better if you really want more of my ramblings! LOL!!

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10/07/04 00:29

Shockwave

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

First of all I'd like to say that Stevie makes a very good point as to why most people choose to play "dark" heroes, and I'd like to expand upon it a little bit. It's my feeling that people make these "dark" characters because they know that there is that flip side of the coin to explore, the more base and brutal aspect of life where no quarter is given and very seldom is there a truly "happy ending" to be found. So what better way to explore this darker side of the psyche than to express it inside a video game, where no one really gets hurt.

Now, that being said I'll also say that this is not the only reason you encounter so many "dark" heroes. There is also the people out there who make them because it's trendy to have a character of that particular genre. In other words, they do it because it's cool. I'd also make the point of "dark" hero being more popular because there is a certain ammount of realism as I alluded to before with the mention of the "happy ending" scenario. It's the classic Superman/Batman struggle of believability versus fantasy. By the Superman/Batman struggle I mean that a lot of people can more readily identify with Batman than Superman because he is flawed, just like they are. He gets hurt, just like they do. And perhaps most importantly, he acts upon his feelings of vengence, just like they would like to do at times.

There is one other factor that might be considered a major reason for the creation of so many dark heroes. It's more FUN! That's the perception anyways, villains and to some extent dark heroes have no restraints. They can act in whatever manner they wish, to some extent they can do whatever they wish, ect. Normal heroes have rules and laws to worry about. Villains and to some extent dark heroes don't have these issues to deal with and that helps to make them more sttrsf0

In essence I would say that Shockwave himself is a dark hero, and I've molded his character into that image through roleplayed events in his life. But mostly I've allowed him to become a dark hero because it seems more "real" to me. Because as much as we are creatures who's actions are dictated by our morals, those very same morals can be bent and sometimes broken if we find it necessary or convenient.

I hope this has made some sense to you my friends, Later days!

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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10/07/04 02:07

Moncro

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

When I made my character, I started by selecting an AT and power sets. I chose scrapper because I am a melee at heart, and dark melee/dark armor because I liked the description of what they did.

After that I had to make a character concept to match that set of skills. Golden and Silver Age comic costumes did not seem to go with the powers I had chosen. So, I made a Dark Lord.

Now, keep in mind we are all on the same team. Just because I look a bit spooky doesn't mean I am evil. My character's biography explains that he is a martial artist who studied necromancy to learn defenses to those attack powers. Finding he had a natural gift for the dark arts, he used them against evil, not for it. But their corrupting influence has wasted away at him, and remaining good is a struggle - but a struggle he is winning.

I didn't make my character to entertain anyone other than myself. I like how he looks, how he plays, and his basic concept. But to answer your question, I don't expect him to scare anyone.

BOO!

Gotcha /wink

10/07/04 04:30

Darknessfallz

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

Here is my beleif on the matter of good vs. evil. Anywhere in the world. There isn't really a "good" and there isn't really an "evil". Good and evil are just the personal beleifs of the person who is considered one or the other.

Sure, most of us wouldn't be caught walking around in dark robes with a skull as a mask; but if that person has been raised thinking this, it wouldn't be wrong for them to do so.

However, I don't think that people should harm others that beleive differently. We can be peaceful even if others don't beleive as we do. If the world could just get this concept, we would be a better world. Even America still has some prejudice problems, but we're working on it.

So bottom line is fight for what you beleive to be good and evil. A good point made before is that the person was trying the "flip side" of the coin. I actually encourage this. There is nothing wrong with trying all the options in order to choose the one that suits you more. If you can find a way to be most comfortable being evil, without imposing your beleives on others, (in this case it could mean harm) then go for it.

You leave me to my idea's, and i'll do the same for you.

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10/07/04 10:00

stellari

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

Well, like I said on the other thread, all my friends want to be bad guys. In fact, Lonestar, we might want to team up, because we might be the only ones defending the city ;) I have no compulsion to create a hero with a dark background, play a villian, or anything of the sort. I see enough bad things in real life to tide me over, I guess.

Even in our D&D campaign at home, we were rolling up new chars last week for a new campaign and I asked (jokingly) if evil alignments were allowed. I was told yes (while my GM had an evil look in his eye), but don't forget, the good guys almost always win. It was also suggested that I pick up a few more character sheets and not to invest too much time into my character's background.

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10/07/04 10:08

Darknessfallz

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I wish I lived around people that played D&D. Love that game to death but no one over in my city seems to play it. (none that I have met that is.)

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10/07/04 13:22

Antigrav

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I play a dark/senses scrapper known as the Ghastly Terror. He's a large dark and spooky ghost thing that hunts the streets looking for souls to consume. BUT! He has a story and it is thusly... The Ghastly Terror was a creature created by the Circle of Thorns to consume the souls of living beings. They created it out of magic, hate, and violence; however, because of this, it feeds off of negative emotions such as hate, greed, anger, and violence. So he quickly turned on his creators, who were filled with such emotions and now wanders free, building his strength, consuming the souls of the wicked. It's kinda funny, I got invited to join an evil supergroup, and they don't seem to realize that my character isn't evil. I guess I'll wait til pvp comes out and attack my group mates. Whee!

10/07/04 15:27

Lonestar

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

LOL too much to quote. Thanks for keeping this serious and not just flaming. I hear a lot of similar reasons out there as to why I choose the White Knight type character. The resosns are simply going through a different filter.

I am going to add this question:

If COV would have come out with COH, would you have bothered with COH and made a Dark Hero or gone strait to being a Villain?

10/07/04 20:30

StevieG

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

Damn, I'm first to answer this one also?? LOL

Ok, for me the answer is, I would have bought both at the same time. Honestly! When CoV comes out, I will probably be as obsessed with it as I am with CoH, CoH will more then likely be put on the back burner for awhile until I level a few villans, get frustraited when I hit levels I'll need help with and then jump back and play the shining hero for a few hours, and go back to CoV and try again. It's the way I play, which is also why I have every server filled with a character in every slot. I have no doubt that I will also have every server filled with villans when CoV comes out.

To me, CoV is a very unique idea. A game where every character is a villian, fighting heroes? I've never heard of a game like this before. (Has anyone else? Seriously asking.) I'm making all my friends climb the walls when we talk about it...who the bosses going to be? Statesman? Won't that be a trip!

I'm still unsure about PvP. I'll try it, but, probably won't play it too much with either CoH or CoV...just doesn't appeal to me that much. It didn't with other games specifically built to be played that way, too easy for higher levels to attack the low levels and accomplish nothing. Though I have a feeling the programmers will figure out a way to avoid this problem.

10/07/04 21:51

Antigrav

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

They'll probably do it like EverQuest. You have to challenge someone to a duel and they have to accept. And there are pvp areas. Arena places where whole groups can fight each other.

10/07/04 23:36

thejeni

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

QUOTE

If COV would have come out with COH, would you have bothered with COH and made a Dark Hero or gone strait to being a Villain?

nope, and the only reason i'm even going to get CoV when it comes out is so i can have access to the new areas that will only be available w/ CoV... i really enjoy playing a hero (even if it is a vigilante hero) i'm all for helping the weak and stopping crime... i guess maybe the reason i prefer playing a good guy is b/c i see so few in the real world, and if i ever had super powers in real life i would totally use them for good, how else could i sleep w/ myself at night?

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10/08/04 11:51

lordvan526

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

Definately. Just because i play a dark hero, doesnt mean i want to be a villain. Sometimes i just enjoy playin a guy who would rather kill the bad guys than arrest them. Kinda like a punisher or Ghostrider type character. because they take punishment to the extreme doesnt make them evil, it just means theyre not goody two-shoes. If you want a more popular comparison, look at Cyclops and Woverine; both good guys, but they take entirely different views on how to handle enemies.

10/08/04 15:04

Darknessfallz

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

QUOTE

To me, CoV is a very unique idea. A game where every character is a villian, fighting heroes? I've never heard of a game like this before. (Has anyone else? Seriously asking.)

I would say the closest online game i've played similar to this is shadowbane. But it was giants guilds vs. other giant guilds.

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10/08/04 15:19

Caerbannog

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

QUOTE

Batman originally kind of started out that way too before becoming campy in later years. There is a graphic novel by Frank Miller though called Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, which has his vigilante side breaking back through in his later years. Its a good read for the Vigilante Hero types out there.

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10/11/04 10:15

kuebot

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

Alright, I DO have a dark character. But, my dark character isn't out for number one, he isn't waiting until the time is right to betray his fellow heroes... he's out for redemption. My character just stayed dark because thats the only way he knows. He is still a good character, he just has a dark past he's trying to make up for.

10/11/04 14:01

sharoo

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

It's a good question, and I enjoyed reading the intelligent, thoughtful answers people posted. But the funny thing about all the "dark" heroes is that almost nobody PLAYS them as dark (in the sense of evil).

Of course, the rules being what they are, you don't have a whole lot of choice. It's not like your Satanic Bandit character can run around robbing banks and convenience stores, or attacking police officers. About the "baddest" you can get in CoH (other than ignoring the pleadings of crime victims, which is hard to avoid) is to act rude to other players. And building a CoH career on trash-talking and kill-stealing is kind of a trivialization of an epically evil back-story, doncha think?

Mostly, the scary looking characters with the demonic references in their names do exactly the same things all the other heroes do: fight crime. Very few bother to do any role-playing at all, which I think is a pity.

10/11/04 14:23

Caerbannog

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I actually had a character for awhile I named Dark Darque. He had a kind of bitting, but tongue in cheek description poking fun at all characters Dark, Darth or otherwise evil in nature. I ended up deleting him in the long run though. Too many folks couldn't seem to see it for what it was....satirical humor and sent me flames. Some folks just don't get humor I guess lol.

10/11/04 18:42

Wei

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

Good versus evil? I like to play the border-line characters, the ones that are trying to be good -- they want to be good. But it is a struggle for them.

I do not do it so much for this game, but several of my AD&D characters are like this. Why? Because my life has not been black and white and my characters reflect this. While I believe in the ideals of good and evil, the fact is that he world is made up of many grey's and only a few true instances of black and white.

Two of my favorite characters from AD&D are haunted souls. They have done much in their respective lives and the effects of this haunt them, making them darker than the campy *black-and-white/good-verus-evil* characters. One of these characters is warring against his own people, who he blames for the deaths of most of those he cares about. He slaughtered innocent and guilty alike in his attempts for vengeance. Only the presences of friends keep him from jumping to chaotic-evil purely from his hatred.

But he is doing what he believes to be right. In his view, the destruction of his people would wipe a majour evil from the world. For the most part, he would be right, but it would still be genocide - an evil act.

10/11/04 20:57

Randell44

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

In COV i imagine you would fight computer controlled heroes and cops and such. Sounds evil but im about like stevie...its amazing im alive this long. Dark heroes? Hmmmm i have based my hero's on my power sets and wrote the story that first popped to mind...at least till room runs out. (they need to extend the amount you can write :P)

Somehow I just haven't made a dark hero yet. I'm hoping COV has unique but balanced power sets or at least a few exclusive ones. I wouldn't mind being the villan seeing as i'm always serving the good of the nation lol. This will finally give my dark side more chance to feed. Incidentally be4 they patched tp acceptance i killed some guy about 8 times with recall friend...guess that was kinda dark. I warned him i would kill him if he kept leaching and he laughed and told me i couldn't do shat to him. So i hovered over some hydras and tp him (lvl 9 at the time) making him fall into them. He didn't learn and it took him 4 times to stop leaching.

With regards to the batman superman thing...yeah superman is unreal. A absolute beacon of goodness lol. I'm not so perfect. Granted i would save someone if i saw them in trouble but you try and keep a job while flyin round saving the world. Even with his powers seems rather impossible as well as the whole mental side to it. Batman is already rich and earns his money with realtively lil time required so has time to vigilante. Also like you said he is vengeful and such which I DON'T think is a flaw.....it's human.

Anyways when COV comes out I'll post my characters on this site. I won't kill you just to be evil. I'll be a villan but i refuse to be dishonorable. Of course the funny thing is....chances are i'll switch to the side that is outnumbered and help them more. I don't like a beat down. I'd rather get in licks while taking my underdog whippin.

Damn I've rambled long enough. Back to killin baddies.

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10/23/04 04:57

CuttingBlade

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I think there is a huge difference between being a Dark Hero and being Evil. There are set ideas of being good and being evil, it is not just a mindset. The basic ideals of being good comes down to helping others, sometimes even at a cost to yourself. Evil on the other hand will pretty much do anything they want to get what they want. If this means harming others, or taking their possesions than so be it. The last position that was left out are people who are neutral. They just want to take care of themselves and keep out of other people's business. One of the better alignment systems in an RPG I have seen was in the Palladium Games systems. Their two different "good" alignments sort of explain the difference between a Hero and a Dark Hero for me. The Hero thinks that everyone is bound by the laws/rules of society including themselves. The Dark Hero thinks that if your good, or at least neutral and not hurting people then your ok, but if cross that line to evil then "do unto others as they do unto you" becomes the rule for them.

I have played both Heros and Dark Heros in superhero RPGs (Champions & Villans and Vigulanties) as well as in CoH. Sometimes it is fun to just let loose and be a Dark Hero, though it has worn off and I am a goodie goodie now. There is something to be said about the freedom of letting loose on the bad guys, not fearing if they live or die. Being Judge, jury, and Executioner for them, making them pay the ultimate price for their crimes. Really though, it is easier to be Dark than Light. The high road is always the harder path, and if your into RP it lends to more interesting things.

I have a feeling that a great number of people are going to do the Villan path when it becomes available, but not me. I have found that I enjoy the light side much more. Hopefully even the Villans will be fighting each other, making our job a bit easier in the future.

11/04/04 07:03

Lonestar

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I definitly see where people are coming from now. The only question that still lingers and I asked it above, is how many of the darkies out there now would ever have existed if COV had come out at the same time as COH. I bet there would be much fewer dark heroes.

11/04/04 19:23

CuttingBlade

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

Well there is still a difference between a Dark Hero and someone who is Evil. Having said that, I think your right in that some of the population of Dark Hero type players really would rather be villians than heros. Only time will tell and we see how many go to CoV. Might make things more interesting overall. Have to see how it goes, as I do not know enough about CoV being I had little interest in being bad.

11/04/04 20:52

Caerbannog

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

One thing that will be interesting with CoV is the server populations. If even 40% of the CoH population goes to CoV it will be much smaller populations in either game. I would assume this is one of the major reasons they are working on the ability to transfer heroes between realms in much the same way you can export one to the test server.

I mean the CoV players may be on the same servers as far as which server they pick, but it will still halve the available "Heroes" or "Villains" that you have to hunt/group/TF with. I don't see how it would be possible to maintain 11 servers with a divided population, but I could be wrong.

11/05/04 12:30

CuttingBlade

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I had thought they were doing something where the villans started out seperate from the general population, but were supposed to somehow gain access with their organization to the main playing area where at that point the heros can PVP with them. I could be wrong, but going to try and see if I can find that again. If this is the case though they could be on the same server, but still would split the population. Might hurt things, but I doubt it. Just will end up with fewer SGs, and people having to work with new people. I don't know hardly anyone on anymore, so it would just be solo as usual.

11/05/04 12:50

Wei

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I think that there will be an immediate and noticable drop in heroes as soon as CoV comes out. After a while, the newness will wear off and the numbers will likely balance a bit more.

However, I have to base that thought on the hope that there will be some form of controls on the pvp. If it is free reign pvp, then we will likely see something similar to early UO, where the villians out number the heroes considerablly. As much as I enjoyed early UO, I believe that such a situation in CoH/CoV would be detrimental to the game and chase too many players away.

11/05/04 20:02

Randell44

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

HA like i said I wanna be evil and stuff when COV comes out but I'll fight for the side that is getting whooped. I don't think population will be a huge issue and should balance itself nicely seeing as most COH players will have COV and vice versa. Of course in the beginning like you said evil will outnumber good. I'll have to bite the bullet and get on my heros to lay the smack down :P. After the surge stops or in the wee hours i can play COV :).

As for dark heros...they are totally different from villans and will always be a popular hero type. Living proof......no matter how you slice it SPAWN IS JUST DAMN COOL!!!

Therefore people take thier cue from Spawn or Batman and emulate. OR some of the creative ones just come up with a dark hero in thier story.

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11/06/04 03:30

Lonestar

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

I have the feeling the PVP will be similar to DHOC. The Villains will have their versions of the city, the Heroes will have their versions of the city, and both have access to the same hazzard areas - ie Boomtown, Faultline, Crash Site, etc. This way those who don't want to PVP can stay away if they wish.

As for server population. I have a hunch they will condense, ie two servers become one IF they have a population drop. However, they actually will not have a population drop, the other half of the population will be on the same server but in different zones - villain or hero. Heroes will SEE a population drop, but I find this a good thing. Right now the streets are wall to wall heroes. Plus, peeps will be jumping back and forth I am sure.

One interesting feature of DHOC which we might see, is that you could not be on the same server in two factions. Transferring that to COH/COV would mean that you could not have a Hero and a Villain on the same server. If your Hero was say on Triumph, then you could not access that server with COV (no spying allowed). Your villain would have to be on say Liberty. Also, the Villains and Heroes could not contact each other out of /Local speak. But we will see what Statesmen has planned for this version.

11/07/04 23:39

thejeni

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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

since the topic has turned a bit toward CoV i think everyone needs to know that there is still a discussion going on wether there will be 2 seperate charges for CoV and CoH... if they do make it so you will have pay your $15 for each account there will most likely be a drastic drop in the number of heros... i for one am not willing to pay $30 a month to play a game, and if it comes down to that there will be no CoV in my future ever... of course i'm not all that hyped about playing a bad guy anyway, but pay the extra $15 would deffinately make it so i would have no intrested in CoV at all..... but the debate is still out between Statesman and ncsoft about the double charges so this is still up in the air, but it will make a difference as to how many people will continue playing CoH after the release of CoV

Siggy created by DeathFetish.

11/08/04 01:34

Lonestar

Posts: 0
Joined: 09/06/2004
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Re: WTF - Why as so many people hard for evil characters?

Actually, i have no desire to play COV either. I would only buy it for zone updates, or if it was required for bases or other upgrade goodies for COH. I might fiddle around with villain creation, maybe even run around abit, but that would be it. I would definately be turned off by a double subscription fee.

Actually, it really doesnt make sense from this point of view:

Statesmen is out for the bling bling, not to make us happy (at least the suits behind the devs are out for the bling bling). They have two revenue sources - subscription and purchase price (PP). If they require double subscription, then many of the COH loyals will not bother with COV and play as is. Thus, they lose PP on the COV expansion. Now, they may make it so that you can get the goodys for COH out of just buying COV as an expansion, but you don't get to be a villain without the double subscription. BUT! Since you cannot play two characters at once, many peeps will just ping pong back and forth as their desire suits them month to month, so Statesman really will not gaining anything by doing that - other than from the retards that will buy into their marketing scheme and pay both. Now, if they were smart, they would make the subscriptions $14.99 for one and $19.99 for both, then they may reel in both camps. Now, since COV introduces PVP, it is in their best interest not to turn people off and lose player base. One subscriber at $15, is better than no subscriber who got mad. It is in their best interest to keep their subscribers very happy and willing to pay the PP on COV. They want to make us WANT to buy COV, not make any doubts in our minds.

As for $30.00 being too much for a monthly game, I completely understand. However, cinema costs you $10.00 for 2 hours of fun. $30.00 gets you 3 movies. Cover charge and a beer at a good club, $10.00, more if you drink more or the club is very nice. So $30.00 could get you 3 days clubbin - maybe. If you play COH/COV for 1 hour a day, everyday that is 30 hours of entertainment at $1.00 - so mathematically it is still a deal. I think the average player is at like 2.5 hours per day, so they would pay like .40 cents an hour on their double subscription for entertainment. You just have to get passed the reeming you feel like your taking. Or like Barbara Bush used to say, "JUST SAY NO!"

11/08/04 02:00

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