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Over the past 6 months i have been following this game and posting it to my EQ2 guild web's site. Heres a link to the ongoing post.
http://shadowcompany.guildportal.com/Guild...TopicID=1623933
Now I will go through it and move alot of the information here. Understand, this is taken from the first post of that thread and continues that way. So later on, most things are more indepth with DEV qoutes and such later down the thread.
BE ADVISED: This game is still in beta and alot of stuff has changed and will continue to change. No I am not a Beta player, and have no clue except what i have gathered from Dev qoutes, forum members, and the Silky Venom Site.
Here is some of the information from that link.
Post 1
The first thing that caught my eye, was there shall be 3 equal spheres within the game that you can work on leveling up. EQ2 has 2 spheres which is adventuring and crafting. Vanguard will have both of these, plus a diplomacy sphere. Diplomacy sphere is kind of like faction, but way more detailed, and opens up alot of things in the game. All three spheres are equal in the amount of time to level them, and there is quests and such for all three spheres. Understand, leveling in vanguard will not be at a fast pace. The higher levels are designed to be longer levels. Alot longer then WoW or EQ2. Somewhere inline with EQ, it was stated.
To make all 3 spheres needed in game and to help better explain these spheres, this is kind of how some end game things would work. The level 50 knight goes and slays a Dragon with his guild. The Dragon drops a "Uber breastplace of mob killing", which is really, really, nice. However, the dragon also drops "a set of Dragon Scales". The Breastplate is extremely nice by itself, worthy of any raid mob, however, if you give the scales and breastplate to a lvl 60 armor, he can make you a "Uber Breastplate of Mass mob destorying". Which is way better then just the uber breastplate. But to do it, the crafter would need to visit the deadly hidden dark gnome's royal forge. To get to this forge, you have to pass through a certain kingdom, and then enter through the secret royal sealed off passage. All of which would require a high level diplomat who has played politics with the royal family. Now, once you get permission to enter, once again you would need the adventurers to escort the crafter to the forge. All 3 spheres were needed just to make that extremely powerful, breatsplate.
Diplomacy, is also used in player made towns. The higher level diplomats are able to get player made towns way better facilities. Better forges, and lets say for example that an epic quest for a diplomat, might be able to get that fabled forge for a player made town. Which would of course involve adventurers to slay some mythical beast, and crafters to build a house of mythical structure to hold the forge. But by themselves, diplomacy would also be used to get things cheaper for player made towns and such.
Crafting will be kind of the same. Very broad categories to choose from at first. As you level you will be come more specialized. However, crafting isnt just simple stand in one spot and hit button x again and again. Instead you will have quests that will offer coin and xp. Failure though, is some harsh penealities. If you fail to make the item for the quest giver, or give him shabby quality, he could no longer talk to you, or he may even kill you. Items will sell back for cost. The main income will of course be doing those combined items I mentioned above. But also in helping build player made towns, and boats and such. You will be able to craft items from other feilds, but the quality will not be the same as if it was in your specialized area. Such as a blacksmith can make a nice metal dagger, but not nearly as nice as a weaponsmith. Both are blacksmiths, but the weaponsmith specializes in making metal weapons.
Ok Vanguard also has 3 areas of design, there will be places with solo content, then places with group content, and finally places with raid content. Loot once again will be based off the diffculty of the encounter. Solo mob loot will not be as good as raid mob loot for example.
Its a seemless world, which means no clicking on bells at docks, or doors to zone. Its back to that EQ style of being able to run for as long as you want in any direction. There will be lots of water, but you can buy or build your own boat and there is alot od small islands to discover and tons of water monsters that like to attack boats. So no boring, long, trivial boat rides. There will be horses of course and travel methods like such.
Quests are advertised as being quests and not just simple tasks like go kill 10 rats and bring me their tails. Of course most games always say that, then their quests turn out to be just trivial tasks, so I am waiting to see about quests to get a better understanding.
Grinding versus questing. I know alot of people have different veiwpoints about which is the ideal way to level for them. Brad has stated that quests with time involved and the mobs killed should be equilvant to grinding on mobs for that same duration. Once again, many games have said that and not kept to their promise. In WoW, leveling is very quick if you quest compared to grinding on mobs. In EQ2 grinding mobs is a little faster, but with the expansion recent update, its almost the same.
Combat AI. The mobs in Vanguard are suppossed to have a new AI system of changing as the fight goes on. A flying creature will not stand and fight you if you have no ranged abils. Rather, it will swoop down from the air and attack you. If you move to a rocky place, where it cant swoop down, it will then fly down and stand and fight, or simply wait for you to leave the shelter. Combat will not be simply mash these buttons in this order each fight. Certain combinations will work well on some mobs, and not so well on others. The taunting system I only breifly looked at one day. It seems that tanks will have other ways of gaining hate other then a taunt button. I think they will still have a mild taunt, but like I said I didnt read to much into detail on it. I just know they said, it would differ on mobs, and make tanks have to think a little.
Healers. Heh, I put this here to stand out for those healing classes. Brad and the development team has stated, they want healers to be more like the old D&D healers, of I wear plate, use a mace quite effeceintly, scare the crap out of undead, and can also heal if you ask nicely. Rather then just being in a group to heal. I know other games promised that, then nerfed them when people complained they was too powerful compared to other classes.
Also, there will not be locked encounters. You can cast spells on people and such. But that the spell effects would scale down to the person it was casted on. So a lvl 50 healing ability when cast on a level 10 character would only heal for as much as the level 10 version of that heal or roundabouts. Might just have a cap on it that says a level 10 person can only be healed for this many hit points at max. I didnt read to much into it. I know buffs ae that way also, so you cant mega buff up a low level character and power grind them through levels. Power grinding in the old school way. Where a level 50 character would stand outside a group, and heal them or kill their mobs, allowing them to get all the xp. Hence a lvl 10 character could power kill level 30 mobs with no fear and get insane xp.
Land Mass versus other games. Right now Dark and Light will be the largest over land mass game of the next line of games out. Vanguard will be somehwere bigger then the original EQ and around the size of Horizons when it is released.
Pvp. Sorry, I havent read up on that part yet. I saw it has a forum place for it, but I didnt look yet under that topic.
TLC There shall be some sort of Trivial Loot Code in the game. They havent released much info on what it shall be yet. Very hot topic in the forums. But they said they was playing around with different versions and will continue to do so while Beta testing goes on. They dont want one overly restrictive like EQ2's is, but at the same time, if they cant find one that works, then why have one at all. They have said many times they hate using No Tade labels. Very few items in game would have that on it. So, since very few items will be no trade, then they need something for TLC. For those that don't know, TLC is loot drops from gray mobs. In EQ2 if the mob is gray, you get no treasure chest. It helps to prevent high level players camping certain very low level mobs for rare drops and such. Which takes away game content for people that level. Many argue though, that TLC is the reason zones become desloate empty places after the masses have leveled up to high for it. That having high level players in those zone helps out, creates a better community and such. When you need help, like a corpse recovery, or something, many high level people are freindly and help out. And they made freinds that way and such. Its a very hot topic as I said.
I know there is alot more I am forgetting, and I will post again when I remember that stuff, or find out new stuff. Quite a few from the guild have already told me they are going to try it out when it is released in March. That could always change, lol, when did any MMORPG come out on its scheduled day? And when they did, how many came out bugged all up? But I know alot of other people on the server also waiting for the game to try out, and will be posting info on what server and such so people can get on the same server. Always nicer when you know a few people where you play.
Post 2
Ok been awhile since I updated here. So was looking around their forums and found a few things.
1) When the game goes live, the current Vanguard forums will disappear.. So links in here will go no where.
2) Player made towns will get attacked by Dragon Guards that occasionally fly around on the look out.
3) adventure class and info cliff notes gathered by a forum member. Alot of good info there.
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthre...?threadid=18572
Post 3
Ok Cliff notes for crafting.
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthre...ght=cliff+notes
Also a god site that contains both cliff notes and tons of general information questions and answers can be found here.
http://www.silkyvenom.com/pages/faq.php
Both Cliff notes are just Dev answers, and no forum member false information. The Silky Venom site, has all that same information on it, in a very easy to use click on question and get answer method.
Post 4
Since Nakar was talking to me the other day about player races/ animal races that are playable. I took this out of the cliff notes to post it here for him.
On the Continent of Thestra
Dwarf
Half Giant
Halfling
High Elf
Thestran Barbarian
Thestran Human
Vulmane (wolf people)
On the Continent of Qalia
Ahgramun Human
Dark Elf
Gnome
Mordebi Human
Kurashasa (cat people)
Qalian Barbarian
On the Continent of Kojan
Goblin
Half Elf
[Are usually the children of humans and wood elves.]
Other Elven / Human unions are so rare that they do not represent a large subset of the population. As such, we can't have a ton of these "one off" combinations running around. - Tagad
Kojan Humans
Orc
Raki (fox people)
Wood Elf
So you have wolf people, cat people, and fox people. As well as quite a few other races that look interesting to play. Keep in mind, that a class from one continent will play slightly different then a class from another continent. You will be able to travel to the different regions and learn different abilities over time, as well from rare monsters, or NPCs deep in a dungeoun. Not all races will be able to be all classes
Post 5
Ok I know this is all in the cliff notes. But am looking through them and pulling out information that I know people have asked me about. Just trying to save people time from looking through all the cliff notes and reading even the useless Dev comments that might just be about something trivial.
Combat – General
Combat is reactionary. You can react in many ways. To list a few:
Detect errors in your opponent's melee attack, and defend against it. This will allow you to counter attack.
If your defensive target is in trouble, you can choose to rescue him or intercept the attack.
Other members of your party can create openings for you to exploit. you can do the same for your allies. The attacks that are made in response to an opening will be more effective than standard attacks.
Work sympathetically with your party members to create powerful spells.
Percieve and counter incoming NPC spells. Choose your method of countering.
Create an attack chain that is made of openers (basic attacks), Bridges (more powerful attacks) and finishes (Extra powerful attacks) - Talisker
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And I tell you, when fighting a heavy magic user and your offensive magic user type person isn't countering some of those spells, it can *hurt*. Not to say that a good offensive caster can't throw a few damage dealing spells in there, but if they'd perfer to be a defenisve counter-person, they could potentially (if skilled enough) neuter the opposing caster by just waiting to counter things. And if that enemy caster doesn't have some other help, and you have someone else lined up to rip into them, well they are in some kind of trouble. Of course, fighting a muscle-bound fighter opponent is a different story... Counterspell can't counter axe strokes, for example. - Jansan
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As for the general play of the Vanguard combat system, with the abilities, counters, bridges, finishes, etc. I have to say, perhaps biased that I am, that I'm VERY happy with how it's turning out. I really makes combat, especially for melee classes, more interesting and more visceral -- you have to think more, and think on your toes. [...]
The counterspell/ability idea also has me particularly excited because it draws from what I feel is a very signficant component of games like Magic: The Gathering. [...]
Not only should you be equipping yourself differently once you learn what type of encounters you are likely to stumble across in a certain part of a dungeon, but you should also prepare your stances, abilities, etc. in anticipation of the next battle relative to what you think the mobs in that next encounter are going to try to do to you and your party.- Aradune
Targetting Areas of the Body Pretty sure neither the player nor the mob actually actively targets the body location; instead, a roll is made in addition to regular damage, resulting sometimes in wounding the player or mob. - Aradune
Using Skills and Abilities
Whether you have an opportunity to, say, parry is based on chance. Sometimes the parry, depending on the specific ability type, goes off automatically [...] and other times it pops up as an option you can click on or not. Further on in the game you'll likely see several options pop up depending on whats going on, and so choosing the reaction most appropriate and effective should determine who the more skillful players are. - Aradune
Taunt/Rescue
Taunt/Rescue has it's roots going back to text MUDs. The ability to rescue another party member that is about to die or isn't as suited to tanking is a key strategy in Vanguard. Given our desire to see combat involve less pulling and often involving fighting multiple mobs at one time, rescue/taunt is very important. – Aradune
--
You will have a lot of ways to gain agro, from attacks that build agro (but may not be as damaging) to abilities that will garner you some additional agro on a successful hit, etc. you will not have the "Place myself at the top of the hate list" button though.
We will also give you abilities that you can use when you do lose agro, because it will happen. Rescues are a type of ability that protective fighters get to help them defend their allies. These allow you to take the place of the target, either blocking the damage or, at the least, taking the damage themselves. There are a variety of different rescues, some easier to perform than others, some that even return some damage.
Intercepts are given to the offensive fighters, because it may fall to them to play the protector role as well. These allow them to ward off attacks using attacks. This is not easy to do and if the offensive fighter fails, the intended target still takes the damage.- Talisker
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Ok information about mentoring and such to keep up with your friends when you are offline. I know this was a question brought up earlier about your friends outleveling you. So here is what they have so far.
---------------------------
Mentoring
We like the concept in general, but it would definitely have to implemented correctly and restricted such that it's not just power leveling in disguise, etc.
So it's on the list, but not at the top, meaning maybe by launch, or maybe implemented after launch. - Aradune
Fellowship system.
Article about Death/Fellowship System
Originally Posted by Justinian
The Fellowship system from what was told WAY back when was a system that allowed a group of friends to come together and decide they would become a fellowship, which basically means they would kind of have a "pool" of shared exp where they could sacrifice some of their own XP to a fellowship member that doesn't play as often as they do, so they can keep up level wise.
Now this could have changed, but this is how it was told, WAY back when.
Yes, a group of friends would form a persistant social construct called a Fellowship. Then, say there were 3 in the Fellowship, but only 2 were logged on, a percentage of the exp earned by the 2 would go to the third such that his level was kept at or near his 2 friends. There's no free lunch, because the people online earning exp end up having to earn the exp for themselves and the offline person.
We plan on experimenting with this system (and other ideas involving offline advancement) in beta. - Aradune
--
The general idea is that there are some people who have close friends they want to group with but also have different amounts of time they can commit to playing an MMOG. The Fellowship system is for these people to whom staying together is so important that they will sacrifice some of their own experience to give to these close friends so they *can* stay relatively together in terms of level. Bottom line for me is that as long as someone is earning the exp, I don't mind it shared in a controlled manner (e.g. mindful of potential exploits) and such that there's no 'free lunch'.
That said, I realize it's a controversial subject. We'll mess with it in beta and if it's something that just doesn't pan out, we'll pull it (though I have high hopes for it). - Aradune
Post 6
Ok for the arguments about KSing, locked encounters, and no instance zones. This information is how they will be handling such things. I like this system after reading it. It makes way more sense RP wise then instances, and gives everyone a fair shot at mobs.
Advanced Encounter System – AES
Encounter Routes are interactive adventures that can be used to progress a storyline, or simply to create a fun play experience for a group of lucky players.
Encounter Routes are not /only/ spawned via items – we have other means of tracking a group’s action within an area. View an Encounter Route as a series of linked events or conditions which must be met in order to receive a reward.
We will have both covert and overt Encounter Routes. Covert ones may not give the players any feedback as to their progress along the adventure. Overt ones may give you feedback such as “Kill ten more Foozles” or “Return to the Throne Room”. – Tagad
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1. Encounter routes are for your group - your group needs to do the actions
2. Encounter routes are not only triggered by items - they are triggered by monitoring the actions of your group
3. Encounter routes are /not/ specifically designed for casual players. They are a layer of content on top of existing content. – Tagad
--
Certain Encounter Routes will have a minimum number of players that must meet the conditions. It will not often be a full group requirement – so yes, additional players may join in. It would certainly not be fun to find out you are on an Encounter Route that you have no way of defeating – just because the Ranger and the Cleric didn’t hit accept group yet. – Tagad
--
We may create some solo and casual encounter routes – but the focus of most of the Premiere Dungeons past a certain level is typically group. That’s not to say we wont have mini dungeons with encounter routes for solo players – but creating this content does take time.
As for higher level players returning hoping to do those Encounter Routes – they will find that they are not eligible. This falls in line with Trivial Loot. – Tagad
--
The intent is to not trigger or allow encounter routes to happen with a solo individual in a group based area. – Tagad
--
The maximum level for a given encounter route will probably be in line with the level range of the dungeon or area that it is in. It should be pretty clear to players that when a dungeon is trivial to them the encounter routes it contains are also trivial.
Also please keep in mind that these encounter routes are not an entitlement. Not everyone will get to experience every one of them. – Tagad
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1. If these items when dropped must be used for that encounter then or can they be saved and activated later?
2. I assume only one encounter of a route can be active at a time. If that is the case what happens if 2 people get the item to start the encounter wit, and roughly how many routes are there in a dungeon for these types of encounters?
1. We have a variety of options here and will likely use them. If the plan is to have the item persistent (saved) we can do that, or we can have the item disappear after you trigger the encounter route. The latter will probably be more common.
2. The second group with the item that triggers the encounter route would fail to trigger the route until the first group had moved on. That said, remember that longer routes are divided into segments, so there would be an item/trigger for each segment. The idea there being that more than one group could be on the same route, but in different segments (but not on the same segment at the same time).
How many routes and segments per dungeon depends on the size of the dungeon, the level range, etc. The idea behind our larger dungeons is that they should support multiple groups that are either just adventuring or on various routes and the segments within those routes. Ultimately, while we think the encounter route system addresses what instancing tries to addresss but without the negatives, having a lot of content and huge dungeons is just as, if not more, important. - Aradune
Locking Combat Encounters/Golden Mobs
4. "Golden Mobs" are typically only at the end of an encounter route or special quest which involves massive amounts of work by one set of individuals. We do not want a groups collective effort being spoiled after working towards something for a long period of time.
5. We dont lock standard encounters.
--
There is a huge difference between two groups competing for a standard spawn, and a group coming in and destroying the last hour of /your blood sweat and tears/.
Again to be clear – only a very limited number of NPCs will be golden. These will most often be the final boss type encounter NPCs. – Tagad
--
A very limited subset of NPCs involved in an encounter route will be “Golden” NPCs. These are the only NPCs which others may not interact with. A majority of encounter routes are planned to play upon the standard population of the dungeon as stated above.
The purpose of the “Golden” NPC is to insure that a group which has been working on an Encounter Route for several hours and finally spawns a boss mob does not have said boss mob “stolen” “ks’d” or otherwise molested by other players. - Tagad
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Raiding, Soloing, and Grouping--------------------------
Group v Solo/Casual
We are NOT trying to drive out solo players -- that would be foolish. In fact, we're making casual areas to support solo players, as well as players who have less contiguous time to play, and then even the occasional more hard core player who wants to log on briefly and actually still get something done.
The focus of the game is on the group experience. On each side, you have the solo or more casual content, and then the raid content.
You also touched on some reasons, as did I, as to why people solo. A big one is that it's hard to find a group. We agree and are doing a bunch of things to make it easy to find a group and to keep that group together -- in fact, we believe strongly that gruoping is one of the cornerstones behind community building, especially pick-up groups. I can't promise you that you'll always find a group, but I will promise you that we'll do our best to bring people together, by the way we lay out the world, with various game machanics, abilities, tools, etc. So, in a nutshell, having any significant number of people who would rather group but are forced to solo is something we can't allow.
Then there are people who simply like to solo, but to solo in an online game. I've seen some people ask these people, hey, why the heck are you playing a multiplayer game if you want to solo? Honestly, I think this is a little narrowsighted. Just because it doesn't appeal to you, doesn't mean that somebody else likes to solo in an environment with other people because it makes the world seem more alive, or, really for whatever their reason is. People are different.
Now, will these people like Vanguard? Good question. I think some will, and some won't. You *will* be able to solo in Vanguard, but it will be more difficult, you will advance more slowly, and you won't be able to realistically access many areas (and so will either not obtain some better items or have to buy/trade for them). That will turn some solo players off and while we regret that, I don't see how we could cater to them and our primary target audience both: those who like to group. But I think there are other solo players who don't mind this. If they want something, they don't mind deciding to either not worry about it, or perhaps to group on a rare occasion and see that area or obtain that item, or even save their money and buy it in-game. This subset of solo player is usually less competitive and more focused on his character and his accomplishments and less on what other people are doing. That solo player I think could have a great time in Vanguard.
Just to make sure I'm being consistent with what I've said in the past: we are making content for casual, group, and raid. Obviously, the solo player would be playing in the casual areas. But even the casual areas are designed for small pick-up groups. So he'll be able to progress, but still not as quickly or as effectively as if he were to join a small group of people and play a while.
The reason we did this is because we think there are more people who want casual areas because they have less time to play, or more specifically less contiguous time to play, and still want to be able to log in, advance, and have a good time. We feel there are more people like that than those who insist on soloing (wrong or right, that's how we're looking at it). So they are the target audience for the casual regions, more so than the solo player, but I don't think it will exclude the solo player either.
I've also said that, when asked to make comparisons, that the ability to solo will likely turn out to be about as effective as it was to solo in EQ. Now this is a very broad and general statement. Some classes could solo a lot better in EQ, plus there were some exploits that went on for some time that would allow solo players to advance relatively quickly (e..g more quickly than what was designed). Addressing this, we hope our approach to classes with our Job system makes it such that there isn't a specific class that always solos better. But we do make mistakes, and I imagine there will still be, but hopefully it won't be as bad. And as for exploits, well, we have to fix those right away for a variety of reasons -- not to screw the solo player, but to maintain the overall health and integrity of the game. So *roughly* similar to EQ and other games where you could similary solo, but not exactly the same either. - Aradune
--
Simply don't expect to see a ton of "casual" encounters mixed in with "group" encounters. If you are duoing, etc, in a casual area, because you do not want to commit the time and energy to a "group" area, you probably won't create a "full" group.
If you want to take on some more challenging stuff, add a few more folks and move to a more challenging area. -Tagad
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The "difficulty" of the encounter is not being reduced when you bring the "designed for" number of players to an encounter. - Tagad
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Jumping into an older thread here, so apologies if someone else already said what I'm typing here, but Vanguard is targeting the 'core' gamer. It will have three types of content: casual, group, and raid. Casual and raid will be the minority, with most content group oriented.
I know some people accuse EQ of being too raid oriented. I would say Vanguard will be less so. But we also think raiding is very important and fun. Our goal from the beginning was to create a world that would support core gamers, as well as more casual or people with less time, as well as those crazy raiders you refer to
Aside from that, well, Vanguard is a new game with a lot of new features and a whole new world to explore. I don't think we'll have any problem enticing hard core raiders to migrate over. - Aradune
Raid Size
1. Do not expect to see content at release that is geared around 70+ people.
2. Certain raid targets will be designed for different group sizes (And level ranges!)
3. We will not /commonly/ scale the difficulty of an encounter due to the number of people that show up. We are making certain content designed around certain maximums, we dont intend to have ultimate scalability with each encounter. Thats not to say we may not use this in a few cases.
4. In some cases if you bring to many for an encounter you may find yourselves out of luck -- possibly no raid target, possibly no loot due to the encounter being trivialized. We will attempt to make you aware of this in game before it happens . - Tagad
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In a nutshell, we want raid sizes to vary. We want to be able to create an encounter and specify the approximate group/raid size that should be taking on that encounter. We also hope to curb zerging and overpowering encounters with a dynamic threat assessment system that could involve the group receiving no loot if they are too overpowered, etc.
We also realize that no matter how fast our engine is, or how fast computers get, that there is a raid size that will eventually get rediculous. Sure, I'd love to see armies battle armies in an MMOG, but I don't think we're there yet. So while the game should adjust itself, turn options off, etc. when there are a lot of people on the screen, there still has to be a limit. It's too early to say what that limit is, though. Plus, that limit may change post-launch as machines get more powerful.
I think it's also important to stress that our focus will be on reasonable sized raids. Now, reasonable is certainly subjective, and I also don't currently have a number to give you. Ideally, there will be group and raid encounters requiring a variety of sizes. I think this would be very cool. Also, as you guys well know, the more people in a raid, the more difficult it is to keep it organized and effective. This is good and bad. The good is that I think there should be some encounters that require a lot of people so that we can reward those leaders who are able to effectively manage and lead large groups. The bad is that this is typically the exception, not the rule. Were we to make too many encounters like that we would definitely be catering too much to the uber guilds, and we don't want to do this. So we need nice variety of encounters that are targeted for a variety of group/raid sizes.
On a side note, dynamic threat assessment will also hopefully allow us to create raid encounters in lower end dungeons. I personally don't think they should be restricted to only the end game (just as I don't think then end game should only be about raiding). Of cousre, this is easier said than done, and we'll find out how well our plans pan out in beta. - Aradune
Raid Loot/Rewards
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Hrm... the primary goal of a raid or any other task that takes a lot of time, contiguous or not, should usually be an item. But as I've mentioned elsewhere, we can reward players with exp, knowledge (waypoints), flags, faction, titles, in-game recognition, etc. Nor do I have any problem mixing up the rewards. - Aradune
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Without digging deeper there is one simple definition of a high end Vanguard raid: Long continguous period of time that requires a large organized group.
I wouldn't assume that's the only type of raid. In context I was refering to the assertion that splitting up a raid or some such into smaller segments, still requiring as much time in total, but not requiring one to do it all in one sitting, should yield the same rewards.
I don't think they necessarily should, but I want to stress that long contiguous raids are not going to be the only, nor preferred, way of earning high end rewards. I think splitting sojourns like this into segments is a great idea. Nothing's mutually exclusive. - Aradune
Raid Rewards v Group Rewards
What I'm getting at is that there should be multiple routes to accomplishing goals in these games, including the acquistion of powerful items. The more variety the better in a general sense, but specifically if we can find multiple routes that appeal to players with different play styles or contiguous amounts of time to devote to playing, the more appealing the game will be to more people. And the more variety that will exist even for the same people who are simply in a different mood and want to try out different parts of the gameworld. - Aradune
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Some powerful items will only be obtained by raiding, and by raiding I mean a contiguous amount of time spent involving significant risk and reward.
But please don't stop reading there. I think there are many other ways to create challenge and therefore reward than just a long contiguous raid. You can have a very long quest, but one that you can complete in short segments. In that case, you're able to spread the 20 hours out over days as opposed to having to commit to it in one session. You can involve extreme skill in an area, or extreme luck (just a super rare drop). You can do thinks like reward the player with an item, but then require that item in order to complete another series of quests, etc. So you can stop at anytime with an item that is X good, or keep going, eventually giving up that item, but hopefully earning an item that is Y (even better) good.
Anyway, lots of ways to keep things rare, exotic, intriguing, sought after without using only one or a few ways to obtain rare items. This allows players with different play styles, skills, etc. to obtain powerful items, although the extra effort to make the items distinct is worth it.
All that said, and here's where I risk some wrath, the most powerful items will likely require skill, challenge, risk, and contiguous time commitments involving a lot of people. The reason is that by putting all of those challenges together, you get a bigger challenge. The additional commitment to stay on those extra hours, the organizational skills necessary to lead and organize a large group of people, etc. There's still something to be said about all of that, even though it will be the minority of content, as per what I've commented on in the past. - Aradune
--
I probably should have been more clear and detailed. If one assumes a death penalty like Vanguard's, the deeper into a dungeon you go, the more risk you are taking on. If there are no safe places to break, or really log off, or pick up later the next day and continue on, you are risking a CR probably just as long and potentially more difficult. Likewise, you are involved in what is hopefully challenging combat involving a relatively large group of individuals who each have their own roles and responsibilities. People have jobs to do. There are leaders, sub leaders. Communication is key. There should be lots of opportunity to screw up, and the farther the group goes, the more painful screwing up ought to be.
So that's why I think, if accomplished, it should be thusly rewarded. - Aradune
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| 05/06/06 07:48 |
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Sorry all for the length of the first post. Should of broken it up into shorter bursts over a few replies. So will do that with this next info.
Will make them shorter from now on
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| 05/06/06 07:52 |
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Post 7
Information about housing and how things deteriate and such.
Houses and Towns
Absolutely, and this is really key: you don't just build houses for fun (although nothing's stopping you). You'll want to build near areas with resources you are looking for (and when I say resources I mean harvestable items or a dungeon you are exploring). In Vanguard we really want people comitting to areas. You and your friends will head to an outpost, hitch your horses up, and dedicate maybe a couple of days to getting the most out of an area. Later, if the area is really attractive to you (it has the harvestables you are looking for; it's an interesting area to explore; there are quite a few quests that require travel in this region to complete; etc.) you may want to build near the area.
That way you can store even more items than at the outpost in your pack mule, create crafting stations closer to the areas where important resources are gathered (as opposed to having to travel way back to an NPC town), or set up vendors to sell your goods while offline.
Now this is the key part: the areas we allow you to build that are near lucrative sites (dungeons, harvesting areas, etc.) offer more reward and therefore also more risk. As an extreme example, let's say you find a dragon's lair and plan on raiding it for the next couple of weeks because it's just full of phat lewtz. So you and your guildmates decide to build a small player run town as near to this lair as zoning allows. Convenient, yes? But you're also far from civilization and it's dangerous out there in the frontier. So wandering, aggro NPCs will be much more numerous. Heck, dragon guards may fly routes that criss cross the area. That's not just dangerous for you and your party while you're online -- they will also attack your buildings whether you're online or not if they happen to notice them.
So you coordinate with your guild and try to keep people online to guard your buildings because if they're destroyed it's costly to have them repaired. And then you can also hire NPCs to guard your houses too, such that they are defended even if you and your guildmates aren't online.
One important message here is that one shouldn't necessarily look at player built buildings as permanent like in other MMOGs. It is more likely that as you progress through the world and level up that you'll want to move your base of operations closer to regions that are level appropriate. Then, when you're done with that area (leveled passed it, or just tired of the area and ready to move on), you'll delete these buildings and re-establish a base of operations elsewhere.
Lastly, though, keep in mind that this isn't all that building player towns is all about. You may very well also want to own buildings in safer areas for social or other reasons. And that's encouraged too, and given that they're in safer areas, it's much less likely that the buildings will be attacked because they're not built in hostile regions. - Aradune
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The designers and artists will set up gridded layouts that define where you can build structures. It will not be freeform like you describe, although there will likely be some flexibility in terms of alignment, etc.
Deleting and re-building elsewhere will be relatively easy, but also costly such that you're encouraged to plan your move and not just approach it willy-nilly. - Aradune
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Not so much. Players who want to advance in city building and related skills will begin by interacting with NPC built towns (like New Targonor), and then later move on to player created towns. You also may be able to build some player owned buildings in an NPC town, if it's zoned that way (again, practice for later starting your own town).
But while it's true that New Targonor is still under construction at the time the game takes place, players at best may assist with a quest or something related to that story line indirectly -- sorry, you won't be finishing the castle. - Aradune
--
. We go in ahead of time and zone the world like a modern city does. If an area isn't zoned for, say, houses, you can't build there.
2. Houses will likely have an upkeep, but they are also in a sense non-moving persistent pets. They have HP, they can big configured, they have an inventory. And so they can die too. NPCs will attack your house if you build it near a dangerous area. And if you never pay your upkeep, my guess is something similar will happen. But that's where crafting comes in -- just a cleric rezzes your corpse, the crafter fixes your house, making it accessible again. Now, what if you leave for a year... obviously, there are some restrictions we'll be forced to place.
3. The plan is no instancing, even with player houses. Think SW:G in this case -- the houses are really there in the world.
4. It's hard to answer that. The general answer is that no content in the game is guaranteed, including owning a house. We'll have to see in beta how well we can accomodate people. But also keep in mind that you aren't supposed to keep your house forever -- you'll abandon it when you outlevel the area. Also, the world is BIG, so lots of room. And finally, if a group of people form a little town, while they can keep you out of their residence, they can't keep you out of their city (speaking about PVE servers). And cities come with publicly accessible buildings, crafting stations, places to bind, banks, etc. So even if you don't own a house, you will be able to take advantage while traveling of other's towns when you come across them.
As for whether they will feel like a ghost town. Well, first you'll be able to set up offline merchants. You will summon an NPC merchant, give him the items you want sold, set prices, and when you log off he will stay there. Also, we hope to spawn other NPCs doing their thing too (this gets into city building and I don't want to get detailed as I don't know how much of our lofty goals and plans we'll be able to realize by release). You'll likely also be able to hire guards to protect your house from NPCs.
Lastly, if we make having a house or a town compelling and an important part of gameplay, then people should be there. We certainly do not want ghost towns that are just storage units visited once a week by their owner. - Aradune
What Happens to Horses, Ships, Houses When I Log Out/Die?
Characters are persisted, and then everything that character owns. Except now your character can own other persistent objects which can be in various states, including being logged out of the game or in.
So we save your character, his items, any vehicles he owns if they are logged in at the time, and any items on that vehicle. And vehicle is used very generically: it really means anything that needs to be persistent that isn't on your character, so it's horses, ships, your house (a vehicle that doesn't move, I suppose), etc.
A vehicle is also really a character is most ways. It has a status. It can contain items. It can have stats. Etc. Etc. The difference is only that it's owned by another character, whereas your main character isn't owned per se.
Now you're probably asking yourself, why is Brad going into all this detail when I asked a simple question
Well, I think it helps to think of your vehicles/pets/buildings in this sense.
Can your character die? Yes, though he is not permanently dead, but you are restricted to him in the sense that your items are still on the corpse and you may also have the opportunity to ressurect that corpse.
The same is true for, say, a horse. It's a character owned by your character. It has an inventory, it can be equipped, it has stats, and it has a status (alive, dead). If it dies, it becomes a corpse as well, and you can loot it, potentially drag it, and ressurect it as well.
Same with a ship. It has an inventory (cargo), can be equipped with items that affect its stats and abilities, and it can 'die'. The names change (instead of a corpse, it's 'floatsam'; instead of being resurected by a cleric, it's repaired by a craftsman), but it's all the same.
And, lastly, the same with a building you own. You can place items in it, decorate it to some degree (equip it), and it can 'die' if it's attacked by, say, a band of wandering kobolds. And, like the dead horse or floatsam on the sea, the house's status changes to one of disrepair when it's hit points become zero. You'll also need a craftsman then to repair the house, though likely with different skills and abilities than the craftsman who can repair a ship, changing it from floatsam into something pilotable again.
There are some differences, too, though. You can, of course, log out your character. When you do, what happens to other persistent objects that you own? Well, it depends. A building you own stays in the game and doesn't log out. It's always there, regardless of its state, unless you actually purposely delete it.
Your horse? It should probably log out with you, but is this true in all cases? This is something we'll have to mess with in beta.
Your ship? Well, what if there are people on it when you log out (intentionally or unintentionally -- what if you go LD?). Again, some rules we're going to have to play with.
You can definitely, however, log out a ship or a horse if you trigger it and it's in the right location (docks, stables, an outpost, etc.). We don't want a situation like one saw in UO where there are ships for miles down the coastline because they don't log out.
Also, what about vendors or hirelings? - Aradune
Maintenance and Destruction of Houses/Ships
You'll relinquish your house and plot to make room for up and coming players (which is part of the plan to deal with housing sprawls, though the world is HUGE). There will also be upkeeps on buildings, so no logging off and re-appearing 6 months later to find your house still there -- it won't be. - Aradune
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Believe it or not, yes, player house can be destroyed to the extent that they become a 'corpse' in a sense where you need a crafter to repair it (just as you need a cleric to rez your body). Same with ships -- they can be 'sunk', resulting in flotsam, but this too can be repaired by crafters. Any loot you have in your house, horse, ship, etc. is retained but only accesible after a rez/repair it.
How does your house get destroyed? Well, you build it near a kobold village or some such, and wandering monsters see it and attack, whether you're there or not - Aradune
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No, it remains as a corpse (flotsam) and can be 'brought back to life' by a craftsman skilled in that area. You never lose your corpses or items (I'm talking PvE servers here -- let's not get into PvP at this point) that were on your character, horse, ship, or house.
As for swimming the oceans in search of your damaged ship, unless you died too, you'd still be at that location. If you had died and returned to your bind point, a more efficient route would be to have someone in their ship take you back to the point of your defeat (using the silvery cord system to guide you across the waters). That is, unless you really like swimming - Aradune
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Yes, you'll need to find another ship, your own or somebody else's, and then use your travel journal to guide you back to your corpse. You'll also likely want to bring a crafter with you to repair your ship unless you choose to abandon it. In any case, you'll want to loot your corpse and your ship, in that it may have items stored on it as well. - Aradune
Guilds
Article covering guilds - August 2005
Right now we've only comitted to providing basic guild functionality that you're all familar with and you all know is important. I like how several second gen games are pushing this forward and supporting guilds moreso both in and out of game. I also like the trend towards recognizing guilds and thier accomplishments moreso, and also guild advancment.
So I'd like to see Vanguard support all of this and more -- we've got plenty of ideas on how to do that, both based on where other games have gone and our own ideas. That said, we're not ready to go into more detail at this point because I don't know how far we'll get with these ideas and additional support mechanisms and associated gameplay by launch. Some of it may well have to wait until after launch and be patched in later. - Aradune
Friends/Guilds Starting on Different Continents If you do choose a race that starts on a different continent than your friend, it will take longer for you guys to hook up, but hopefully you guys can keep in contact and make sure you don't out level each other to the point that it's detrimental (although I think this is true even if you start out together -- if one person plays a lot more, then a gap will likely pop up). That said, we have some ideas there to help out, like the Fellowship system which we'll get into in more detail in the future. - Aradune
Communication/Chat
There will definitely be 'intelligent' messaging that takes into consideration who you've been speaking with, where you are, what you are doing, who is near you, who is in your guild, or group, or friends list, etc. So there shouldn't be some major hassle having to type out long names, or to quickly type out two names in the midst of combat, etc. These really revolves around making a good chat client that goes the extra mile in terms of assiting the player in communicating when and to whom he wishes. - Aradune
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We've not yet set in stone (nor will we for a while) all the chat channels we'll have, how they'll work, how they'll be restricted, etc.
In general, though, because this is a seamless world, chat of various types will be limited by distance. Also, of course, you will be able to turn channels on and off. - Aradune
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Ok that is all the stuff I have found in the adventoring cliff notes that people have asked me about or I found very interesting. It is not by close to all the information in it. Also, no one has really asked me much about crafting, and I am not a huge fan of crafting. So I will leave that alone for people interested to read through themselves and point out things they like and such. Hope this clears up the air on somethings.------Salat
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| 05/06/06 07:53 |
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Salat
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Post 8
Here a article on crafting for the game I found.
http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?articl...&fansite_id=118
The defining factor in this is how each sphere is defined as being equally involved and requiring the same allocation of time investment to level within. Given the significant leveling curve also noted for Vanguard, this could mean a three-year duration to max levels in each sphere for a casual player
That was one of the qoutes I found intriguing. Could mean a horrible grind if it isnt in depth with lots and lots of stuff to do. Then again, most casual gamers tend to still go faster then what game designers say it will. Plus they could also be adding in the time involved with waiting for expansions and such before max level. Such as EQ2 is 100 level for max, and its taken over a year and 5 months to get the ability to go to level 70 with next expansion.
But the article goes into alot of detail on crafting writs and the interdependecy of crafting classes. You wont be able to make all your own subcombines. But when you get writs from NPCs they will give you the subcombines with the quest that you cant make. That is kind of nice I must say.
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| 05/06/06 07:54 |
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Post 9
Also here is some info that I was talking to Nakar about.
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Aradune Mithara
We'll have game mechanics that help friends stick together as they move around the world (the caravan system, for example) as well as to keep you and your friends around the same level even if some friends can't play as much (the fellowship sytem).
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/s...8944#post278944
The key here is Outposts. Outposts are areas we designate as places you can bind, hitch your horse, dock your caravan, etc. These are placed throughout the world (though can be further away the higher level area you are in). The idea is that you and your group commits to an area for a while, exploring, doing overland content and quests, doing any nearby dungeons, etc. If you die or need to switch gear or are just looking for a pick up group, you head to the nearest Outpost which are designed to be natural hubs for the player population.
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/s...5309#post445309
__________________
Hope that explains outposts better. Caravans will be a great way to keep the groups together as they move over the huge world. Don't have to worry about logging out and being a 2 hour ride/run from where the rest of the group is
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| 05/06/06 07:55 |
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post 10
Races
Kojan Continent
Kojani - Human of Kojan
Wood Elf
Half Elf
Orc
Goblin
Raki - Fox People
Thestra Continent
Dwarf
Halfling
High Elf
Vulmane - Werewolf type
Thestran - Human of Thestra
Varanjar - Barbarian of Thestra
Lesser Giant - Half Giants
Qalia Continent
Qalian - Human of Qalia
Gnome
Dark Elf
Kurashasa - Cat People
Mordebi - African American Nomads
Varathari - Barbarians of Qalia
Customization
Sliders for facial features, body proportions, coloration and positioning
Options much more in depth than Eq2, males of same race do not look like brothers as in Eq2
Females will not have the 'uni-boob'as in some other games
Character models have the same base skeleton so that the engine doesnt need to process multiple models
Models are sized depending on their race, i.e. halflings are short
Models heads are the only really unique part of their bodies so that facial features are unique to races as well
Combat
Smarter AI means mobs will jockey for position or backstabs to gain advantages
Perception will play a key role in noticing enemies who hide or are invis etc.
No Enchanter style class that has mezmerization type spells
If there are any mez type spells they will last only a few seconds
Flanking enemies gives advantages in combat you wouldnt have otherwise
Rogues have better perception inside as a class bonus, rangers outside
Four stances of combat are Offensive, Defensive, Evasive and Warding
When combat openings are done, other members of the group may have options open up
Stamina is to abilities and special attacks as Mana is to spells
Some noticed combat skills are tactical recognition, awareness and dodge
When groups of mobs are encountered, the perception skill determines if you recognize them ahead of time and what they are
Ranged combat is not finished as of yet
Rogues will get crossbows, and crossbows are in game
Bards and Paladins cant use bows, but bards get throwing daggers
No instruments use for bards in combat, only during downtimes/travel
Necromancers turn to liches for a limited time after death, shamans to spirits
Different combat abilities have different chances of spell interuption
No mounted or ship to ship combat expected for launch
XP debt emblazoned across screen on death
Possibility of friendly fire with bows, etc. on PVP servers
Mobs can push/throw player characters, characters will take velocity damage
No Rezs in combat
Crafting
Coastal hugging craft can be built by one crafter alone if they gain the components
No NPC crew needed for the ships
Looted items can open up new recipe trees (bordars hammer could be used to craft bordars armor pieces)
All crafting stations are not in all cities
Special crafting stations may be used to create specific items only from that station
Diplomacy
Got absolutely no info on this. May be because they are the first to try.
Classes
Defensive Fighters:
WAR = Warrior
PAL = Paladin
DK = Dread Knight
INQ = Inquisitor
Offensive Fighters:
BRD = Bard
RNG = Ranger
ROG = Rogue
BER = Berserker
MNK = Monk
Healers:
CLE = Cleric
BM = Blood Mage
SHA = Shaman
DIS = Disciple
Arcane Casters:
SOR = Sorcerer
NEC = Necromancer
DRU = Druid
PSI = Psionisist
By Race
Thestra
Thestran (11)- WAR, PAL, DK, BRD, RNG, ROG, CLE, BM, SOR, NEC, DRU
Varajar (5)- WAR, BER, ROG, SHA, DRU
Dwarf (7)- WAR, PAL, DK, BER, ROG, CLE, SOR
Halfling (5)- WAR, BRD, ROG, CLE, DRU
High Elf (10)- PAL, DK, BRD, RNG, ROG, CLE, BM, SOR, NEC, DRU
Vulmane (6)- WAR, DK, BER, ROG, SHA, DRU
Lesser Giant (4)- WAR, PAL, BER, SHA
Qaila
Qualiathari (11)- WAR, PAL, INQ, BER, BRD, ROG, CLE, BM, DIS, SOR, PSI
Mordebi (10)- WAR, PAL, INQ, MNK, RNG, ROG, BM, DIS, DRU, PSI
Varathari (5)- WAR, BER, RNG, SHA, DRU
Dark Elf (11)- DK, INQ, BER, BRD, ROG, CLE, BM, DIS, SOR, NEC, PSI
Gnome (- WAR, INQ, ROG, CLE, BM, SOR, NEC, PSI
Kurashasa (9)- WAR, DK, BER, RNG, ROG, BM, SHA, SOR, NEC
Kojan
Kojani (9)- WAR, DK, MNK, RNG, ROG, BM, DIS, SOR, NEC
Wood Elf (7)- INQ, BER, BRD, RNG, DIS, NEC, DRU
Raki (7)- BRD, MNK, ROG, BM, DIS, DRU, PSI
Goblin (6)- MNK, ROG, BM, SHA, SOR, NEC
Orc (6)- WAR, DK, BER, MNK, ROG, SHA
Half Elf (10)- WAR, INQ, BRD, MNK, RNG, ROG, BM, DIS, DRU, PSI
Miscellaneous
No auto mapping feature expected at all, though a large overview map will be available (continent sized)
Armor/Clothing pieces will be able to have 3 different colors per piece
Bows have unlimited ammo
Looting items can start new quests
Placables (chests, furniture, etc) can be opened,etc
Money is on 1-100 system as copper, silver, gold, platinum
Lvl 40 encounters were dropping 16-18 copper!
Silver is actually a lot of money
10-15 Silver expected for first horse
Gnoll dungeon the devs fought gnolls in was bigger than upper and lower guk combined
72 minutes is expected duration of the day
Buccaneers cove may be a starting city for humans on Thestra
Horses/Ponies have their own inventory
60 degrees of upward angle on hillsides will stop you from climbing
Layered Clouds give the effect of a realistic sky
Coloration on tree leaves changes during light changes of the day
Some runes can be deciphered off the walls of dungeons
Intercontinental travel will be seamless as well as area travel
Gnolls run on all fours
Characters select each sphere on creation
Vulmanes will be changed to look more wolfish less baboon/wolf/human hybrid
30 hours of music in game now, more expected
Goblins and Orcs start in the same city, as do Raki and Kojani
Guild system wont be final till launch
6-8 characters per account per server (regular ruleset)
Flagging will work much like Eq and wearing items may change factions
Powerleveling will make you miss content to the extent you may have to re-roll later in game
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| 05/06/06 07:56 |
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Salat
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Post 11
Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler sat down for a Q&A session during the last Fanguard. Safehouse was good enough to video tape the event and post it on line. You can find the videos here:
http://www.thesafehouse.org/mugshots/video...106/index1.php#
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| 05/06/06 07:57 |
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Salat
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Sorry, that i have posted so much at one time. I will go back through and edit things to make it an easier read. Last thing is that Microsoft is no longer the backer. SoE now is. And while SoE is the backer, in the contract, they can not touch any gameplay mechanics or development. They will simply be doing the marketing and Tech support.
Heres press release on it also.
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_...lease_id=127515
As I said at the begining, this information is what I have gathered from:
SILKY VENOM WEBSITE
http://www.silkyvenom.com/
The Vanguard forums, which will be taken down on game release and set up new ones.
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/index.php
And from my friends in Shadow Company Guild
http://shadowcompany.guildportal.com/Guild...93&TabID=373407
http://shadowcompany.guildportal.com/Guild...=1623933&Page=3
Most of the information came from Dev posts, or from Fanguard fares and such. Some of the information will change as it is in Beta. Some will not, and some will be removed. But I wanted to make sure the gameamp community had at least the information my guild did. :)
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| 05/06/06 08:02 |
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Salat
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| Interview at E3 explaining some of the options in game |
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http://www.2old2play.com/modules.php?name=...iew&video_id=30
A window that tells you what is attacking party and who the mob is aggroed to. Kind of like that idea.
Alot of other information in there also.
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| 05/15/06 19:24 |
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Phedre_D
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| RE: Information on the game I have gathered over the past 6 months |
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Great catch! Nice video. Some serious nerds in the background, but a lot of cool info. I liked the idea that my character will travel with my group even if I am offline.
***FEELS KINDA NAKED WITHOUT A SIGGIE***
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| 05/16/06 09:05 |
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Julia Heartilly
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| RE: Information on the game I have gathered over the past 6 months |
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Ooooooooooooohhh my God!
Someone's been doing his homework, very nice. :-)
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| 05/27/06 19:19 |
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Phedre_D
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| RE: Information on the game I have gathered over the past 6 months |
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Hi Julia. As you see, I can be found all over the place. So another welcome for you; this time at Vanguard. This game is going to be awesome. I am really looking forward to it, but hate it that I still have to wait till the end of the year. Fortuantely Salat was there to cheer all the Vanguard fans up a bit with his posts.
***FEELS KINDA NAKED WITHOUT A SIGGIE***
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| 05/30/06 05:57 |
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killcount05
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| RE: Information on the game I have gathered over the past 6 months |
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hi new to game amp and plan on playin vangaurd in the winter
just wondering what is the population like can i get a group easily because im a pve gamer sorry for the random post btw this is good information fo noobs dude
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| 09/16/07 04:22 |
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