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rjconroy

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"not a monks job to res" ....

i had an amusing experience over the weekend that i thought id share that really almost single handedly shows the difference between PvE and PvP ... and the mentality of same

doing Eternal Grove ... we had a group that was very balanced with a little of everything.. i was working my warrior through to end game

it was the usual "GLF 2 Monks" stuff that always drives me nuts .. but hey... i went along with the group

we suddenly foung a group of 2 monks, by themselves, looking to get in a group and our group leader quickly snapped them up

now some of you may disagree with me here.. but im of the opinion that if we do have 2 monks in a group, that its adviseable to add damage to your Bar, and not necessarily carry Res as virtually everytime ive carried one in the 2 monk era ive never had to use it and frankly dont think i should be expected 2. how often do both monks die ? if that happens the group is toast anyway whether anyone else has res or not most of the time as the monks are usually last go in PvE

in any event, things took a turn for the worse about 3/4 way through the mission and a couple of us dropped, myself included as i got spiked trying to hold the north gate basically alone. after a few minutes we started to wonder why we werent getting rezzed... and we were informed by our 2 monks that "its not a monks job to rez", and that we were noobs for expecting it.

of course they found time to flash a PvP rank emote during battle more than once, and make it perfectly clear that i didnt know what i was talking about since i didnt have one.. silly me, i guess i wandered into a PvP match in the middle of Eternal Grove.. guess i should have made that left at Albuquerque

note to both sides ... what works on one side or is common practice doesnt or isnt always the same on the other. a little communication, without condescension, goes a long way to making things work alot better

i guess im looking for feedback here, from both sides ...

in PvE.. since it seems the "flavor of the month" is 2 monks for everything .. should the rest of the team be expected to carry Rez ? if you do, how often have you actually used it ?

for me, i did for the longest time till i relaized that if i have 2 monks, its wasting a spot on my bar that could be better used and stopped carrying it.

in PvP.. i get it, everyone carries rez and i do when i go there (assuming by some miracle i find a group that doesnt want rank6+ only) ... but you dont always see 2 monks either in a PvP group and if you do die you respawn anyway so it isnt the same ground rules.

now ill admit to being somewhat of a PvP beginner.. but i do alot of alliance battles and noones carries Rez there due to the built in rez shrines etc..

so... thoughts ?

07/03/06 11:25

cswella

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RE:

Pug Groups, everyone should have res.

PvP, situational.

Guild Group/Friend Group, only /monk or monk/ should have Rebirth.

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07/03/06 11:28

CaptainBobby

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RE:

First off, 2 monks has always been expected in groups of 8. Usually one monk healing, the other taking care of hexes and conditions or being a bonder.

Second of all, its not the monks job to res in battle. Everyone should bring their res sigs and when someone dies, they can res them in 3 seconds. If I am healing the team and I have to stop for 6-8 seconds to res someone, other people will die. Also as a monk I bring rebirth just in case of those tough res spots. Using Rebirth makes me useless as I would have killed all of my energy. Most builds have more then plenty damage with 4 attack skills, 3 defensive skills and res.

Be a teamplayer and always bring res, no matter what.

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07/03/06 11:30

AnvilChorus

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RE:

Rediculous. I almost only play a monk now. Not only is it my job to rez, but its my 2nd concern after healing. I often carry rebirth & resurrect, just in case I need one or the other.

I understand your complaint about 2 monk parties. If I'm out with another guy and someone gets spiked, we both jump to heal him when one of us could handle it just fine, and no one is wasting energy.

But everyone should carry a rez. You may never use it, but the pain of failing a mission stings really bad when the one survivor doesnt have a rez. Or, if you are not going to carry one, let your party know at the beginning, so they can plan for that.

Hi.

07/03/06 11:33

Travis

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RE:

i dont see the reason why monks take rebirth.

it takes up all your energy and leaves you with none to heal the party members. i personally take resurect because then i have energy to heal them once they have got up.

07/03/06 11:40

CaptainBobby

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RE:

QUOTE

I use rebirth because I will be the last one alive most of the time and if there are enemies standing over dead bodies, i can res them without drawing aggro to me. I will never res mid battle, thats the job of the other party members to do with their res sigs.

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07/03/06 11:41

cswella

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RE:

QUOTE

It's not the monk's job to res in battle. Rebirth is only for the aftermath or if you had to retreat.

The two classes that always have rebirth in my groups, Rangers and Monks. They are the most likely to survive the battle, so they should have the means to revive everyone.

If you feel the need to Rebirth in battle, bring Ether Signet.

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07/03/06 11:48

Octivous Servil

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RE:

believe me...rebirth is a must in some situations

doing ToPK with 5 man, one monk...it's a life saver ;)

07/03/06 11:49

rjconroy

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RE:

2 monks has not always been expected .. at least not top my knowledge or experience. i think its borderline a waste to have 2 monks most of the time and has become a crutch for laziness .. but thats just me

one monk is more than sufficient if each player has some self heal, and pay a little attention

add a healing rit to the mix and it gets even stronger
but this is not another "2 monks" thread, and i digress

the question im asking is this... in the 2 monk era we find ourself in.. whos job do you think it is to worry about Rez ? monks, or the rest of the team ?

with 2 monks, i feel its firmly on the monks and im packing damage most of the time and not bringing Rez as i wont need it 99% of the time .. with one monk, i carry rez, always

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07/03/06 11:50

Punisher Zero

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RE:

QUOTE

in PvP.. i get it, everyone carries rez

sry to say but monks dont bring res in pvp lol.. there not expected to .. use that one other spot to help keep anyone from even needing to use there res sig.

Joey Dirtbag-lvl20 W/E/Mo
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07/03/06 11:52

Octivous Servil

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RE:

with 2 monks, you are correct, depending on the mission. There are a few select spots where 2 healing monks are needed, but most of the time 1 monk would be sufficient. In the case of rez, if there are 2 monks in those typical areas, yes, it should be their job to rez, one way or another. Depending on if you're a war, or whatever, and what type of build you're playing...that is what should determine who brings and how many bring rez sig

07/03/06 11:53

CaptainBobby

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RE:

I don't understand guys, in PvE everyone should bring res ALWAYS. It really isnt that hard to make a great build using 7 skill slots.

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07/03/06 11:55

cswella

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RE:

QUOTE

the question im asking is this... in the 2 monk era we find ourself in.. whos job do you think it is to worry about Rez ? monks, or the rest of the team ?

with 2 monks, i feel its firmly on the monks and im packing damage most of the time and not bringing Rez as i wont need it 99% of the time .. with one monk, i carry rez, always

It's everyone's job to res if you're not in a guild/friend group. You have absolutely no idea about the abilities of everyone else. And you can't really predict who'll die or live in battle, monks aren't always aware of aggro. So what happens when you're at the last group and you're the only one left alive? "I didn't bring rez because it's not my job"? You're just as bad as those monks you mentioned.

What about the 1% of the time? You shouldn't need all 8 skills for any area. 7 skills are all you need to be successful, 8 is just too much. You never know when that 1% will show up and ruin something you've worked hard for.

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07/03/06 11:58

ErmacTheDemon

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RE:

my take on it is:

Monks: carry res, restore life or res chant. Not rebirth because it wastes all your energy which is vital for healing, duh! They only res mid-battle when everyone has enough health do not die in the next few seconds.

Monk secondaries: take rebirth, possibly regular res. Only res when monks are busy and they Ctrl+click when they res.

Others: bring res sig just in case, only use when both monks go down or mass ppl are dying.

Monks are primary healers and res-ers. Monk secondaries res to help the monks out. Others res as a last resort.

07/03/06 12:16

great inferno

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RE:

even monks should have ress

07/03/06 12:18

hambones

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RE:

IMO.. no matter what the situation.. a monk should always carry a res..

you gotta take the good with the bad, smile with the sad, love what you got, and remember what you had.

ign H A M B O N E S

07/03/06 12:32

rjconroy

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RE:

its overkill Bobby.

with 2 monks that have a reusable res ... how many times are you going ot use yours ? how many times have you ever had to ?

with only one monk, i agree.. it should be there .. but not with 2. i dont think you need 2 monks either, but thats me

i may be in the minority on this, but i just think its nuts to have 2 monks and carry rez on the rest of the team... you end up in too many stalemate or extended battles cause you arent doing enough damage.. which leads to issues of monks running out of energy

and can someone that PvPs often please explain to me how a monk isnt expected to carry one at all ? what 8th heal or skills are on the bar that makes more sense than a res of some kind ? ill admit im not a PvP expereinced player.. but this just doesnt seem to make alot of sense to me. and please, save the flames... give me an honest answer cause i truly dont get that logic in the least

and yes, the 8th slot does matter in many builds ... to give it up is a difference maker. i dont say this to be selfish, but you cant for example condemn assasins for being crap, then tell them they cant have that last skill in the combo or lose the running skill to catch runners. point is that there are build that losing that 8th spot matters.

i dont mind carrying a res, i play for the team in the missions, not my own ego. ... but i found it mindblowing to be told i was an idiot to expect a monk to and that it was my job as a warrior to res ?

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

07/03/06 12:37

cswella

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RE:

Well, think about this Rj:

A good player with 7 henchies can go through a mission/quest at about the same speed as Pugs. If you know how to handle the henchies, it's sometimes faster.

ALL the henchies bring rez. Monks have Rebirth/Resurrection Chant/etc and everyone else has Rez Signet.

If you can't go through an area with a PUG like you can with Henchies, you need to revise your build.

I'm not very experienced with PvP, but I've been doing PvE for a while. In my experience, it's best to error on the side of caution. In extremely difficult areas, on average over half the group has used rez. Everyone should bring a rez in PvE.

If I'm making a PuG group in a difficult area, I make sure everyone has rez.

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07/03/06 12:47

CaptainBobby

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RE:

If there are 2 monks and someone dies, its the monks job to keep healing the rest of the team. If they stop healing, removing conditions to res someone, others with die. Remember that it takes 6-8 secs to res someone. The entire team can get killed really quickly. The Warriors, Rangers, Necros, Mesmers, whatever else can use their signets to quickly res people in 3 secs so that the fight can continue.

Also for PvP, in HA, when I play bonder monk, I dont bring res. I have too much to worry about when I am the bonder. I am usually maintaining 10 enchantments and my energy is being sucked away. I have to make sure my energy doesnt run out and also I have to make sure that I keep the bonds on the right people at all times.

For PvP in RA and TA, monks carry res, for PvP in HA or GvG monks dont need to carry res depending on the build.

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07/03/06 12:50

MadBert

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RE:

The main reason for pvp monks not to use a res is the cast time of 5-8 secs in which if a monk stops heal/prot other members of the team will die, the extra skill slot is jus an added benefit, and if it comes down to all res sigs been used a perm res not going to make any difference to your team anyway in that situation.

For pve my monk nearly always uses rebirth as chances are i'll be last left alive, but i wont res mid-battle, I prefer */mo to carry resurrect or whatever for mid battle ressing, but this is jus personal preference really, as long as the monk has some sort of perm res.

07/03/06 12:55

Spazzed999

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RE:

Always bring a res if your in a PUG, because you dont know how others will react. If you dont need it, then your doing awesome great team, but if you do, then great your prepared and know one will yell at you for being the last person alive with no res

07/03/06 13:13

rjconroy

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RE:

guys, im not arguing the point of carrying a res ... im arguing whos primary job it is.

i dont mind carrying a res, though i dont often, especially in groups with guildies or people i know what to expect out of.

again, the question is, who is the primary responsisble one for ressing fallen members ?

07/03/06 13:34

cswella

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RE:

QUOTE

In battle? Everyone but the monk.

After battle? The monk, since they have reusable rez.

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07/03/06 13:37

CaptainBobby

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RE:

QUOTE

The monk is not responsible to res mid battle, only after all the enemies are dead. Alot of groups will fail because the warrior will over tank and die, and all the bad guys will start to attack the squishies. If they would res the warrior, he can get back to taking down and distracting enemies.

lets look at it like this, if you are an ele and start to res someone mid battle, and your getting attacked, who will keep you alive? the monk will.

if you are the monk and you start to res someone mid battle, and your getting attacked, who will keep you alive? nobody! now we have a dead monk and a bunch of people without res signets, mission over.

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07/03/06 13:42

maddog199

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RE:

my opion:
in PvE i think EVERYONE should have at least res signet for in combat and out if their isn't an unlimmted rezzer.

in PvP in groups off 8 i don't think that res signet would be good for monks seeing as they need all the healing/protection they can get, for 4 i would surely take a res signet for those quick battles/res.

defently monks would have come in handy for res seeing as it's their nature rebirth/restore life portection prayers/healing prayers. if you are a 2th monk class you can switch the res signet for normal but that would disble your res ablety in battle so balance is the key here.

07/03/06 13:56

Niobium

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RE:

It is the primary job of a monk to res people. The plain and simple reason being that they have the most rez capabilities. Sure other classes can bring a rez sig, and should in pve.

With that said, sure certain builds and certain groups may not have the monk as the main rezzer.

In a pug group, any monk who didn't expect to be a rezzer is pretty stupid. It's like inviting a nuker, and finding them healing people and never using a single offensive skill.

07/03/06 14:01

AnvilChorus

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RE:

QUOTE

If the party's nuker dies, and everyone else seems to be doing ok, I will rebirth in mid battle. Her damage is going to be greater than my healing. It only takes a few seconds to refresh my energy a bit.

If someone res signets her and she isnt all the way behind the battle line, then shes dead in 2 seconds anyway, which is why I'd rebirth.

Hi.

07/03/06 14:01

Niobium

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RE:

QUOTE

But it takes the nuker forever to get their energy back. Sure, you can rebirth and the party may still survive and do ok. But imho its a bad habit.

07/03/06 14:04

benjef

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RE:

in pve every one should bring res even monks however in PvP every bar monks take res sig (still not sure whY)

07/03/06 14:08

Bubbada Muse

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RE:

i bring a rez on all my pve chars, on my tank i only bring 4 attack skills maximum so that i have room for condition removal, healling breeze, reibrith and healing signet. I know that as long as there are other damage dealers my biggest job is to take agro of hard hitting targets such as rangers and warriors and let the casters pick them off. I also know that in battle you should not rez if you are a monk, instead try to neutralize the threat first or have another person rez. I bring rebirth on my tank because i can take the energy loss and i have the best chance of surving while i'm rezzing during a battle. Also in spots where rebirth is needed all other chars should use it. It helps keep the monks ready to heal just incase of pop ups and lagg groups. I bring rez on my monk but i never will stop in a battle to rez unless we have it under control and nobody is taking to much damage.

07/03/06 14:18

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