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Agent Mia Mioshi

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So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

A discussion I overheard on line the other day stirred my curious nature.

We have 5 arch types Tanks, Scrappers, Controllers, Blasters and Defenders.

And we have the origins Natural, Mutant, Science, Technology and Magic

So where do the classic comic book characters fall in those guidelines.

Superman is obviously a TANK as is Ben Grimm

Spiderman is a SCRAPPER IMO so is Batman

Jean Grey and Prof X are CONTROLLERS

Sue Richards is as DEFENDER

Cyclops is a BLASTER

Now Origins is where it gets a little more confusing

what origin is Superman? He's not really a mutant. That implies he is a HUMAN with special powers that developed at birth or at puberty. Okay he WAS born with special powers but he's NOT a human. and on Krypton (if it still existed) he'd have no powers at all. You can't classify him as a Natural because he really didn't have to train his body to develope his skills.. They are simply there because our sun is so much weaker than the one that Krpton used to orbit around.

By COH definition is Batman a Natural or a Technology based hero He fits both... He had no actual SUPER powers but has spent years trainin his body and mind so he can fight crime. at the same time he fits the description for A Technology based hero ... He uses countless gdgets avaialble through Wayne industries to aid him in taking down the bad guys

Spidy, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Sue Richards, Prof X, Ben Grim and a host of others are Mutant. Their powers a result of accidents that adapted there bodies or minds or they were born that way.

My opinion? Okay Superman is a Natural Tanker... We all have to agree (or not) he's the ultimate meat shield and while he didn't have to train to attain his skills they are not a result of some accident or science, technology or Magic. He's natural

Batman is definately a scrapper The man loves to fight and while he's good he can and has gotten his butt kicked (he's no meat shield) as for origin He's a combination Natural/Technology Yeah I know you can't have that in COH But you'll never find Batman in COH either. By their definitions he is both.

Okay let the arguments commense LOL and let's not limit it to just these two either. We have scores of Super heros to analyze and type. Let's have some fun with this

08/31/06 22:43

sportgenius

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

this was a popular topic a while back in the off topic section. You should check it out HERE

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09/01/06 10:13

RonJ73

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

Actually, I believe Spiderman, Ben Grimm and Sue Richards (and the other Fantastic 4's) would be considered Science, since their powers were a result of exposure to radiation. In Spiderman's case, the radioactive spider bite. In the FF case, the radioactivity on the space ship.

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09/01/06 10:22

jammer_75k

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

I would say:

Superman:Natural-Tanker/Brute
PP:Invulnerability
SP:Super Strength
Batman:Natural-Scrapper/Stalker
PP:Martial Arts
SP:Ninjitsu
Wolverine:Mutant-Stalker/Scrapper
PP:Claws(duh?)
SP:Regeneration
Captain America:Science-Scrapper
PP:Martial Arts
SP:Super Reflexes

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09/01/06 10:58

Randy7

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

Sorry, I've got to give Batman's secondary power pool as devices. Think of all the cool toys the utility belt has.

Guardian:
- Dark Judge - Lvl 50 Dark/Dark/BM Scrapper
- Sharp Jennie - Lvl 50 DB/WP Scrapper
- Stan XX - Lvl 43 Inv/SS/Fire Tank
- Sonick Boon - Lvl 21 Kin/Son Defender
- Master of Toys - Lvl 21 Rb/FF MM
- Jonnie Volt - Lvl 19 Elec/Dev Blaster
- Green Medic - Lvl 19 Emp/Arch Def

09/01/06 11:07

Warron Peace

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

SUPERMAN IS NOT A TANKER!!!

He is a Super Strength/Invunerability SCRAPPER! (Brute?)

He dishes out damage like no other. If anyone here has read the comics, comments from the writers, and the various novels written about Supes, then they would have to agree. Superman pulls his punches, and never hits full on. He wants to arrest the bad guys, not kill them. When it comes to Doomsday, Darkseid, and various other very hard to kill baddies, he does go full out, and wins the day through DAMAGE!!! Not by being untouchable. They wreck him. Just like an AV will wreck a scrapper, but the scrapper can wreck them back. Superman is a scrapper who won't allow himself to use his full power.

Nuff said :-)

Warron

09/01/06 11:16

Valentine

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

QUOTE

To this you could also add the epic sets, coz we can assume after the amount of years these heroes have been around theyve dinged 50!

Superman:Natural-Tanker
PP:Invulnerability
SP:Super Strength
EP:Energy Mastery

Batman:Natural-Scrapper
PP:Martial Arts
SP:Ninjitsu
EP:Weapons Mastery

Wolverine:Mutant-Scrapper
PP:Claws(duh?)
SP:Regeneration
EP:Darkness Mastery (difficult but due to his berserker mode id go for this)

Captain America:Science-Scrapper
PP:Martial Arts
SP:Super Reflexes
EP:Weapons Mastery (those shurikens are kinda shield like)

And adding to it:

Ben Grimm: Science-Tanker
Stone/Superstrength/Earth

Jean Grey: Mutant Defender
Forcefield/PkE/PkE

Oh, Hello Mr. Jurassik! Sorry about that arrow, it wasnt aimed at you. I'll just be on my way now... *flees*

09/01/06 12:55

Death_dude

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

Spiderman seems like a dominator to me, except good. He's got his control, 'blasts' and kicks+punches :)

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09/01/06 13:11

EbonSword

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

QUOTE

SUPERMAN IS NOT A TANKER!!!

Sorry. But for purposes of this discussion, he's a Tanker. A Scranker to be sure, but a tank none the less.

And in team settings, he does fill the tank role. He takes the damage and lets teammates do the dirty work. Reference just about any JLA issue.

Sadly, you can't really work some of Supes' secondary powers like his superspeed, super-senses, or breath weapon into the game.

Strictly speaking Batman doesn't translate to the CoH side well yet. He's a scrapper to be sure, but none of the secondary powers really fit well. SR comes closest unless and until they move Ninjitsu over. Then there's the Travel Power headache... here's to hoping one of those 10 proposed new power sets is "Swing Line".

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09/01/06 13:18

jammer_75k

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

i would have to say that in the mold of this discussion Superman would have to fit the mold of a Tanker.

Look at the power sets for the Tanker AT and you find Supermans powers right there, if you look at all of the heros he is the ultimate Tanker.

I think that there is a guide on this site about how not to be a crappy tank and in it it says that the tank is the leader, the first one in,and the last one to fall if the team gets wiped, to me that is what Superman fits into.

Now if you want to say that hes a Scranker then fine i can agree with that because he can do massive amounts of damage when he wants to! If you look at any fight that hes been in he does hold back just a little if its just a normal AV but if hes fighting Darkseid, Doomsday, or Imperiex then he cuts loose on them because they can take the damage hes giving. That's Clarks tragic flaw is that he was rasied to respect his powers and use them for good, but not to intentionally hurt someone or get them killed.(Except in the case of Doomsday, all three times!)

Ultimately he really doesn't fit into any AT in the CoX universe because of who he is; he's Superman the hero all other heroes are modeled after!(Superpowered heroes!)

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09/01/06 13:41

Agent Mia Mioshi

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

QUOTE

i would have to say that in the mold of this discussion Superman would have to fit the mold of a Tanker.

Look at the power sets for the Tanker AT and you find Supermans powers right there, if you look at all of the heros he is the ultimate Tanker.

I think that there is a guide on this site about how not to be a crappy tank and in it it says that the tank is the leader, the first one in,and the last one to fall if the team gets wiped, to me that is what Superman fits into.
Now if you want to say that hes a Scranker then fine i can agree with that because he can do massive amounts of damage when he wants to! If you look at any fight that hes been in he does hold back just a little if its just a normal AV but if hes fighting Darkseid, Doomsday, or Imperiex then he cuts loose on them because they can take the damage hes giving. That's Clarks tragic flaw is that he was rasied to respect his powers and use them for good, but not to intentionally hurt someone or get them killed.(Except in the case of Doomsday, all three times!)

Ultimately he really doesn't fit into any AT in the CoX universe because of who he is; he's Superman the hero all other heroes are modeled after!(Superpowered heroes!)

That was my reasoning when I classified him as a Tank. When he teams with his buddies in the Justice League He's the one absorbing massive amounts of damage. And I also agree that most of the comic book heroes don't fit any exact mold available on COX.

Heck Batman's only Travel Power is the Batmobile (Okay and the Batcopter too of we want to get technical). Don't recall seeing that as an option for any hero type LOL If he ever did show up in Paragon City the poor guy would be so exhausted running from train station to train station he wouldn't have any strength left to fight the villians.

SO what about other heros? The Flash? I'd say he;s a scrapper with SS. Johnny Storm? Fire Controller?? Anyone have any idea how to classify Reed Richards? The man stretches like rubber! He's not controlling anything, He's definately not a Tank or Scrapper, but he doesn't fit the bill as a Defender either. As was stated above many of the comic book heroes don't fit COX classification and other combine types... I tend to agree with the Scranker definition for Superman LOL

Hey thanks guys for making my first post experience a good one. I was amazed so many responded so quickly :-)

09/01/06 16:21

Warron Peace

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

Ok, hate to be a pain about this, but if its a matter of the context of this thread, then no one in this thread can be right. None of the "real" (non-cox) heroes can fit into our AT's. Its just not possible. Attempting to do so is self-serving at best. Superman will be a tank only because people refuse to see any good character with super strength and 'invulnerability' as anything other. Hence self-serving. He is none of the above, nor is any other "real" superhero. Have fun with your fantasies.

W.P.

09/01/06 18:33

Agent Mia Mioshi

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

War,

Please! CHILL OUT my friend. It is obvious your a bit of a Comic Bood fan and I certainly hope my post and none of the others offended you. I don't think anyone who posted here disagrees with your assessment. Comic Book heros DO NOT fall into any of the COX catergories exactly but most at least have more of one TYPE of quality than the others. I did not post this to start a major debate just to have some fun and hopefully to make some friends as one of the new kids on the block. COX heroes are based on certain aspects of the classic comic book heros but there is no way any of them mirror the Heroes of Marvel Comics which gave us so many of the classic CB Heroes we all know and love.

Is Superman a Tanker? No ... Superman is Superman. Heck I've read other discussions concerning COH's own Statesman and even he doesn't REALLY fit any one Type do to his power sets. I am sort of quoting someone in the forum that actually met the Statesman at a party (probably at Pocket D) and checked out his personal info. He apparently had powers from all over the sepctrum and the discussion group finally agree that he was WHATEVER he wanted to be because he's one of the development crew and because HE'S STATESMAN! Heck the same discussion thread couldn't even come to a definate conclusion on what AT Lord Recluse was.. supposedly he's a Mastermind but again his power set includes items from whatever arch type he pleased. SO if the Developers can't even keep their own signature heroes inside the lines of the types we play with.. so why would anyone think the comic book heroes had to do so.

This post is just a way to have some fun. If I offended you or anyone I apologize.. But as Cindy Lauper sings "Girls just wanna have fun" Hope I didn't offend you and hope to see you in the game some time.

Mia

09/01/06 20:55

Valentine

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RE: So what Archtype and Origin are Batman and Superman anyway?

not to fan the flame this thread is blatantly attracting but in the case or Recluse and Statesman I believe the additional powers the receive are part of the INCARNATE pool, which is based on the origin story from the comics.

its also from what i recall something they are considering offering to players in a "future" issue (ie. 11+)

ok theres the grownup bit.... now for the fun...

deadpool could take spiderman in a fight anyday :P

Oh, Hello Mr. Jurassik! Sorry about that arrow, it wasnt aimed at you. I'll just be on my way now... *flees*

09/01/06 22:31

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