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DWestman
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I read in some thread that there wont be Health points in LOTRO, but instead your health will be related to your morale in some way.
Anyone here that could explain in a little more detail?
It sounds cool though, especially when you think of the minstrel class and it's moraleboosting songs.
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| 09/22/06 12:25 |
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thejeni
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I believe a large part of this comes from the fact that there is no resurrecting the dead in LOTR. So to keep with lore, they can't have someone's character dying all the time. Instead of dying, you are "defeated" and are removed from the battle.
Also since there isn't a lot of magic in the world of Middle Earth, the thought of healers is very much out of lore. But someone who can boost moral is within the lore. So they can have "healers" as a playable class in a role that raises morale.
It also leads to new avenues of gaining your morale back that is more on the realistic side. There are lots of different ways to raise one's morale. Ways that would not be possible to use if it was health rather than morale.
I personally think it is a very interesting spin on the hit point aspect of a game. I think it leaves a lot of options open that using "health" and "hit points" do not. I'm really looking forward to seeing how many ways my morale can be raised.
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| 09/22/06 12:39 |
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Meldarion
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One thing to also remember is that the Morale system is very similar to the Health system. The differences, as thejeni pointed out, give the morale system it's own "spin" but, in effect, you still lose points and gain points by being hurt and "healed". The latter is simply done by raising Morale. As thejeni already stated, there are several ways this may take place. I can see this as a trial and error type thing where it may take a little getting used to, but in the long run, it should still feel fairly familiar.
Lord Meldarion, son of Beinion
Mith Tur, GCoA
“I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness,
nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend” -J.R.R. Tolkien
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| 09/22/06 13:11 |
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MissMagnificent
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Mel and thejeni said it pretty well. From scouring the official site and forums, a couple other notes to make:
* By using Morale, the devs can tie morale effects to several classes. It is suspected or known that the Minstrel, Lore-master, and Captain will all have "healing" powers.
* Again, without health, there is no death. Makes the game more like the novels. Also, the devs have stated that since you cannot die, there is NO death penalty. That's right, last I saw, there were no plans to penalize players for a defeat.
* B/C "health" is "morale" the dev diaries and forums have hinted that there may be certain scripted and non-scripted events that affect base and current morale. The hints point to things like wearing certain powerful armors that make you more confident and boost base morale to fighting certain enemies that are so terrifying as to give you an immediate blow to morale.
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| 09/22/06 14:42 |
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DWestman
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I'm really eager to see how this works out, sounds really nice what they've said so far. This is more like real life than the old HP system.
If I get shot in real life, its not like I would loose any hitpoints, it's more like.."Oh shit I got shot, I'm scared, maybe I should run away!"
But then, if my favorite singer would come and boast me with his songs, maybe I would turn around and fight!
Well.. this post didn't contribute much.. :P
EDIT:
Thanks for all the nice info!:)
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
A list of useful links for LOTRO, check it out.
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| 09/22/06 15:08 |
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thejeni
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| QUOTE | I'm really eager to see how this works out, sounds really nice what they've said so far. This is more like real life than the old HP system.
If I get shot in real life, its not like I would loose any hitpoints, it's more like.."Oh shit I got shot, I'm scared, maybe I should run away!"
But then, if my favorite singer would come and boast me with his songs, maybe I would turn around and fight!
Well.. this post didn't contribute much.. :P
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I'm eagar also. I really like the spin on regular hit points. It is nice to see someone stepping outside the box with something like this.
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| 09/23/06 13:12 |
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Sykin
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I could imagine morale being tied to your performance in a fight as well. If you have low morale, you will fight poorly and thus have an even higher chance of being defeated. I suppose if you start fighting with a high morale you could take on tougher enemies, gain morale back by defeating your enemies, et cetera.
Who knows. But it makes sense... What if, by default, you walk around with an even-level morale and it can either be buffed up or go down?
I can see Minstrels, Captains, and Lore Masters as critically needed characters for any large Fellowship.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 09/23/06 14:23 |
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thejeni
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| QUOTE |
I can see Minstrels, Captains, and Lore Masters as critically needed characters for any large Fellowship. |
I agree. I also love that there are 3 classes that can do these wonderful things to moral. It means there will be more varity of Fellowships out there, and people won't be as dependant on just one class for "healing".
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| 09/23/06 16:04 |
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Sykin
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE |
I can see Minstrels, Captains, and Lore Masters as critically needed characters for any large Fellowship. |
I agree. I also love that there are 3 classes that can do these wonderful things to moral. It means there will be more varity of Fellowships out there, and people won't be as dependant on just one class for "healing". |
Indeed. I'm all for variety, and I'd love to try all of the classes. I worry about one thing--What's to stop a big ol' Fellowship with only Captains? Wouldn't they all be casting a great deal of morale boosts and heals while dealing some fairly good damage to anything in their way? Captains: They seem like a 'Paladin' class if any one has played Diablo 2 (Of course you all have... Heh).
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| 09/23/06 17:20 |
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GaylenOraylee
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Thats the danger you run into when abilities become too common.
In DAoC, some groups stopped bringing clerics all together. They had a buff-bot and heretics and friars. Since both of those classes were also dmg dealers, they were more versatile than a cleric. When you only have 8 spots in a group, that was pretty important.
The other risk is that when you have too many things to be doing, you don't do any of them well. You don't want your healers distracted by tanking, buffing, or CC when they need to be healing. If no class is a primary healer, then you have 3 classes that are all splitting their focus. :/
I'm holding out hope that you can specialize in some way. If you have one really effective healer, that means there are group spots open for tanks that would have otherwise been taken up by the extra support heals. Better to have 3+ toons working solely on dmg/tanking than just one while the others pause to cast/sing/play/chant heals.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 09/23/06 17:53 |
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Sykin
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Ah yes, when you said 'specialize' I thought of the trait system immediately. Interchangeable traits as well so that your character isn't stuck as being the Healer Captain forever--Maybe it means you can switch to being the Warrior Captain. Just an example because the Trait system seems a lot like the Matrix Online's many ways to tweak and control balanced aspects for whatever you choose to be (And you can switch what type of class you are on a dime if you're near a phone booth).
But, I see it more as a way to change your passive attributes... Or rather, passive abilities that boost your other things. Class Traits, Race Traits... All of that good stuff for further customization.
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| 09/23/06 19:20 |
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GaylenOraylee
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We really don't know enough about the Trait system yet to know how it will really alter our characters' abilities. I remember reading that traits are collectable, some are rewards for exploring and crafting. :-/
I don't have a lot of hope, if that is really the case. I'm hoping it's like what you've described from MxO or from Pre-CU/NGE in SWG. That also was skill-based advancement. I had a Pistoleer Combat Medic Tailor. It was great to choose exactly what skills I wanted from every profession and make my unique character. It doesn't sound like Traits will work that way, but t'would be my ideal.
I could live with a more lvl-based advancement as well. In DAoC, for every lvl you were given 'Skill Points' to spend. For clerics, there were 3 catagories; Rejuvenation, Enhancements, and Smite. If you put those points into "buying" the next level of Rejuvenation, you got new, better heal spells.
That way you could make a pure buff cleric, a dmg dealing cleric (which was nerfed into uselessness naturally), a pure healer, or some hybrid of any combination. Of course, people found specs that became so popular as to be practically required for grouping, but you technically had the choice to pursue the playstyle you liked best.
That is the common thread between the games I've enjoyed. If LotRO forces me to play a character that is part-time melee and part-time healer, I won't be around long. It just isn't the kind of gameplay I enjoy.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 09/24/06 00:07 |
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thejeni
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| QUOTE | | That is the common thread between the games I've enjoyed. If LotRO forces me to play a character that is part-time melee and part-time healer, I won't be around long. It just isn't the kind of gameplay I enjoy. |
I'm kinda the opposite. I get tired of a character if all it does is heal. I can do it. I just really get sick of staring at health...er morale bars and missing the battle because that's my only focus. And then the accusations of "letting" someone die. And... well I could go on w/ that one.
I think it would be fun if the job of healing is spread out among a few different people. If I can jump in there and start attacking via melee, and pop off a few heals to others as needed, I think I would be happy.
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| 09/24/06 13:10 |
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Sykin
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That's what I'm saying, though. Skill-points in a way... Only you can change them later on if you wish (But have to run a quest or something; just like in the Matrix Online where you run a special mission to get a RSI Stat Hack to change your attributes).
I think there will be a huge variety of traits to collect but you'll only be able to have a dozen (Or more, I don't know) 'socketed' at once. So you'll have to choose the right traits for the role you want to play. Sounds like further customization to me; it can be fun to tweak and perfect whatever role you wish to serve as your character. Coupled with the ability to change these traits (Albeit through a quest of some sort), and I think it will be quite fun.
It won't be the case where "You made a mistake picking your stats and your entire character build is ruined (Like on Diablo 2)," for example.
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| 09/24/06 14:51 |
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Aprias
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In regards to the health system being based on morale.. Reminds me of what GW has done. It's a good idea. GW has it as a death penalty but you do need to boost morale to get out of it and to gain positive morale. -60% morale really stinks. haha
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| 09/24/06 20:09 |
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thejeni
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| QUOTE | | In regards to the health system being based on morale.. Reminds me of what GW has done. It's a good idea. GW has it as a death penalty but you do need to boost morale to get out of it and to gain positive morale. -60% morale really stinks. haha |
That was actually one of the things I loved about GW. Their death penalty was great. I mean yeah it sucked when you were at -60%, but it was always nice to know that would be gone as soon as you went to a city.
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| 09/25/06 10:21 |
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