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XxdudexX
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today i got an invite by an old friend and i notice i was the only person that can heal then i said to myself "humm a full team of 8 and i have to heal them all this maybe hard". so i went in the mish and i saw that the baddies we were fightin were circel of thorns so the first thing you know im out of end and cant heal everyone then a team whipe then everyone got mad and went to the hospital we had like 5 team whipes and then they all kept sayin its your fault u kept runin out of and and not healing. i got VERY mad and quit the team then later the leader (my friend) said that they had 10 more team whipes. just to let u guys all know that it is hard to keep us with heals when the mish is lvl 41s and the the highest there was on the team was a lvl 39 so dont get mad if u die u can always work off the debt just try again.
XxdudexX
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 10/10/06 20:45 |
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infernalstorm
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IMHO, that was a very bad team. It always concerns me when a team feels as though they can't operate without a 'defender', and/or feel no strategy is required or take no responsibility for their game play when one is present.
Despite great healing, buffing, and debuffing, team wipes happen for more reasons than one can name. Every toon should bring something to the battle, it’ not just the defender's responsibility to keep one in it.
When I played defenders, some of my more impressive verbal swaps took place when a toon would scream something to the effect of 'HEAL!!!' or 'where was the defender'. After the verbal exchange, if I weren't kicked from the squad, or they happened to remain, they got no more band-aid love.
I would say to don't take it personal, because allowing jerky people to upset you is giving them too much power, but if you enjoy playing the defender class, understanding your powers' limitations and how they work with your team gives you better verbal positioning when these situation arise again.
Infernal Storm fire/energy/fire blaster
Cosmo Crush energy/energy/force blaster
and many more...
Leader of Galactic Guns
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| 10/10/06 22:26 |
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XxdudexX
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hehe forgot to add that im a controller ill/emp :D
thanks 4 the post
freedom heroes:
1800-pirate lvl 50 fire/kin/psi troller
1800-i killed u lvl 50 ill/emp/stone troller
1800-im peace lvl 26 peacebringer
rawk lvl 26 stone/em tank
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| 10/10/06 22:47 |
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Warron Peace
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In that case, tell em your a friggin controller, if they wanted a heal bot, they should have gotten a pure heal built emp fender. You do your job and look after your own ass till they get their act together. And if they don't, look elsewhere.
Apparently your friend was understanding of your inability to fix the whole teams mistakes. He should have stepped up and found a way to correct the issue. There is no reason for a team to ever "scream" at a defender for not being able to keep them alive. If the defender is a poor player, the team should improvise, by adjusting their own tactics so they aren't relying on the poor player, and by helping the player to learn how to play better. If he refuses to learn, find someone else to fill his role.
I stopped playing my defender after I got fed up with being at the debt cap because everyone thought "Hey! He can keep me alive! I'm gonna go do !" A month of this, and I said fudge it and moved on to a blaster. (Warron Peace, actually)
W.P.
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| 10/11/06 01:25 |
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jinxycat
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i hate this whole we need a healer phillosophy, i have many a times stated no we dont when in a tf or respec and said they are nice to have but not essencial (SP) anyway
that being said i like having healers on teams you can go mad but its the same with insps. people hold up missions to go to a contact and stock up, i tend to rely on my own power when i can and use these as bonuses.
it makes you weaker if you ask me and lazy and careless.
however i do like playing my healer and being the only healer on a team and knowing im keeping them alive.
my healer is a pure healer and unless its an easy mission where im not healing much i dont attack at all. i havekeep teams alive by the skin of my teeth fighting impossible odds at times for 10 mins at a time always on the brink of a team wipe. then you accidentally get twatted by an aoe or somehow get aggro and down you go. its funny to see how fast the whole team can wipe without you there. i love teams like that cos it makes me feel needed hehe. although i have been playing wow the last 3 weeks cos someone brought it for me and i felt obligated to play and wouldnt you know it, i got hooked, but worry not i will not abandon coh, i have spent far too much time on that to let my heroes die.
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| 10/11/06 09:26 |
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bergmann
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Most people do not understand how hard it can be to keep the team healthy in an intense fight.
To depend too much on a healer is asking for trouble. The team members need to keep an eye on their health and endurance and if it gets too bad RUN.Fall back and regroup if possible.
This goes back to what I always say "fight smart".
If your teammates get pissy then give them a warning or it they are being stupid quit the team.
Most people are so obcessed with leveling they forget to have fun.
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| 10/11/06 12:10 |
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LordStarwolf
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If I get on a big team team and I'm the only healer I tell them to get another healer or dont whine. I have found that if the team relies on healers then you have to have one for every 4 people. In another words in a team of eight, two of the toons need to be healers of some sort. Otherwise dont rely on a healer. Keep youself alive with insp. or self powers.
I recently played on Triumph with a toon named Gibralter. He has created a toon type I hadn't seen before, a pure controller. Not controls with a side of buffs, just controls. He had storm as a secondary but used the aoe slows as extra holds and nothign else. I looked at his build and said "Huh, not even O2 boost. He'll be worthless to us." You know, he was a lock down king. He would hold an entire room all by himself. As a fire blaster I rolled in, laid the smaketh down with my AOEs and never got agrro, beyond long range stuff, which didn't bother me, and wipe out the entire room. I went through the whole mission without dying once and without a healer of any kind. It was fantastic.
The moral of this story is, you dont need a healer. If you have toons who know their business and play their AT's to the max of their abilities, it's not needed. So if they complain to you about a team wipe, ignore it. They can either be smart and relaize they need a healer for every four toons, or realize if they played better they wouldn't die. Either way, it's not your problem.
Guardian
Avant Guard = Emp/Rad/Psychic Defender Lvl 50 (Dedicated Healer)
Astral Plane = Peacebringer Lvl 50
Spica = Fire/Em/Energy Tank Lvl 50 (Scranker)
Avant Spines = Spines/Regen Scrapper Lvl 50 (AOE King)
Beliskner = Eng/Eng Blaster Lvl 42 (Blapper)
Avant Kin = Ill/Kin Controller Lvl 37
BMG = AR/Dev Blaster Lvl 28
Avant Psy = Psychic Blast/Empathy Defender Lvl 20 (Offender)
Avant Def = Kinetics/Energy Blast Defender Lvl 16
Avant Stone = Stone/Storm Controller lvl 15 (Super Controller)
Umbral Plane = Warshade Lvl 14
Triumph
Lord Yu = MA/Regen Scrapper Lvl 24
Protector
T-99 = Ice/Ice Tanker Lvl 20
Electrostun = Electric/EM Blaster Lvl 21 (Sapper)
Starwolf = Katana/Inv Scrapper Lvl 18 (my very first toon, 3 1/2 years ago)
Pinnacle
Avant Claws = Claws/Regen Scrapper Lvl 18 (Non-power pool toon)
Champion
Avant Dragon = Fire/Fire Blaster Lvl 20
Freedom
Avant Arch = Archery/NRG Blaster Lvl 50
And many, many, many more....
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| 10/11/06 15:18 |
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Whimcycle
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Heh!
And now you know the answer to: "Why is Whimcycle always hiding?" The only reason people forming teams want him along is the fact he heals. And he is dang good at for a Controller.
| QUOTE | hehe forgot to add that im a controller ill/emp :D
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People tend to forget the fact that a Controller Empath heals two levels lower than a Defender. So yeah, I have spent many a nailbiting time trying to keep a party alive despite themselves. I've lost track of the numbers of times I've advised a party that I cannot support two seperate battles at the same time, then have to do just that yet again. Sigh...
=~Whimcycle~=
A fleeting shadow in the crowd.
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| 10/11/06 15:56 |
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XxdudexX
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thanks everyone 4 postin im gonna go with w.p.'s idea and make a new toon not a blaster because its not my play style but make some other builds anyone got any suggestions?
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
freedom heroes:
1800-pirate lvl 50 fire/kin/psi troller
1800-i killed u lvl 50 ill/emp/stone troller
1800-im peace lvl 26 peacebringer
rawk lvl 26 stone/em tank
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| 10/11/06 17:19 |
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whymsie
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| QUOTE | | thanks everyone 4 postin im gonna go with w.p.'s idea and make a new toon not a blaster because its not my play style but make some other builds anyone got any suggestions? |
ok ,,,my 2 cents worth. I think it is a shame you are giving up on your controller. I have a total emp lvl 50, a dark def lvl 50 and an emp dark lvl 35. I like to heal but like you I do not like to be abused. if I am asked to team with the dark or emp/dark i am upfront in the fact that I expect to be more to the team than the 'Healer' even as the emp I tell everyone if you play too aggressively and act stupid I am not responsible if you die. I am there to be an intregal part of the team not the healing slave.
Siggy by Big
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| 10/11/06 17:37 |
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Brimstone Titan
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| QUOTE | | I hate this whole we need a healer phillosophy... |
I couldn't agree more. This is why I build most of the team I play on, and they usually always ROCK. You don't NEED a pure healer, unless you are fighting and AV. Even then, if you have massive buffs and debuffs, and have a guy (like a kinetics) that can focus a weak heal on the main aggro taker (derrrr.... the TANK) you should be fine!
It seems like so often I get invited to these team that have 2 scrappers, a tank, and 3 blasters. And then they get creamed! And they think, if we get a healer that will fix it! And it doesn't...
The trick to building a really really good team is diversity. I try to have a little bit of everything. Ya, you can't always tell for sure WHAT type of controller it is when you ask him to come to your team, and sometimes you can't be picky - BUT he is ganna provide SOME control at least, and he's ganna do SOME buffing/debuffing at least, and it's those sort of "x factor" things that make a team rock.
Personally, my favorite teams are the ones with about 4 or 5 of the players consisting of controllers and defenders. Then a tank, a blaster/keldian, and any left over spots filled with scrappers/blasters/keldians. In my many experiances, these kinds of teams are insanly unstoppable. By just getting that many buffers/debuffers on a single team, you don't even really have to know what exactly thier primary/secondaries are before you invite them because the odds are so much in your favor.
Great Sig Made By Death Fetish
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| 10/11/06 17:47 |
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XxdudexX
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| QUOTE | | I think it is a shame you are giving up on your controller |
the reson im givein him up is because sence i got my phantoms is just been healin and healin and um... HEALIN hehe thanks 4 the post
XxdudexX
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| 10/11/06 21:13 |
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E.V.I.L. Lemons
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| QUOTE |
the reson im givein him up is because sence i got my phantoms is just been healin and healin and um... HEALIN hehe thanks 4 the post
XxdudexX |
Isn't that what most defenders do.
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| 10/11/06 21:33 |
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XxdudexX
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as i said before im a controller :D (cant u read?)
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| 10/11/06 21:37 |
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XxdudexX
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whopps dobel post! :( sry
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 10/11/06 21:37 |
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E.V.I.L. Lemons
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| QUOTE | | as i said before im a controller :D (cant u read?) |
My bad don't remember what i was thinking and I just learned how to read thanks for inspiring me. :)
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| 10/11/06 21:57 |
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XxdudexX
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hehe np :)
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| 10/11/06 22:28 |
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Hey all, I'm pretty new here, and this is my first post and all, but I've been playing the Cities long enough to know what's going on, so here's my two cents worth;
Begin Rant.
A lot of players nowadays rely waaay too heavily on healers. What gets me is people who think that just because you're a Defender, you automatically have to keep the rest of the team in the green. Take with my L20 kinetics/radiation Defender, Dr. Awkward for example. He's pretty much a buffer/debuffer, part blaster Defender, and he gets the job done. I do have the one healing ability, Transfusion (in the kinetics set), but it doesn't really heal all that well (at least not for me, anyway), and it's just one move- I focus more on the buffs/debuffs.
Anyway, I cannot tell you the number of times when I have been invited to a team, and then was complained about or yelled at when they found out I can't heal all that well. I mean there's more kinds of Defenders than just healers, people! I mean, if you want enhanced attack power, super speed, accelerated recharge time, and protection from all manner of status ailments (not to mention an array of attacks saturated with debuffs), then hell yeah, the good Dr. can keep you covered and then some. But by no means is he a healer.
But some people just can't seem to grasp the concept of a non-healer Defender, and they go off whenever they don't get a generous portion of HP restoration handed to them on a silver platter. It's like to them, if you're a Defender, but your main focus is anything other than healing, then you're completely useless. It's this sort of shallow-mindedness that kills the fun of the game. Those few teams I've been on with Doc that WEREN'T totally obsessed with me trying to keep the team fully healed were some of the best team experiences I've ever had with him, and we seldom had any team wipes, either.
Folks, if you can't complete a team mission without recruiting a full-on healer first, then either your difficulty is set too high (more common than I'd like to admit), or else you flat-out don't have a very good team to begin with. Each character has their own set of perks they bring to the party, don't discriminate against useful heroes/heroines just because they don't fit your idea of what that archetype should be.
End Rant.
Sorry for the length- I tend to rant an awful lot.
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| 10/11/06 23:36 |
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Dr. Awkward
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That above post was from me- for some reason it logged me out when I posted it....
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| 10/11/06 23:38 |
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jinxycat
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the thing is people me included still make teams based on the old days of coh, when you could have a tank, 2 scrapper, 3 blasters a controller and a healer, you just cant do that anymore, tanks are not what they once was neither are scrappers, blasters in general do half the damage, so teams have to be different and you have to use more tactics now. its that simple.
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| 10/11/06 23:54 |
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swissarmy68
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First of all a big hearty welcome to Dr. Awkward!!
Secondly, I wonder if they give you a hard time because you have "Dr." in your name, which usually means Healer (I know, not everyone does that). That may be why they react that way.
Lastly, as many of you know I enjoy the Empathy toons. I have one on almost every server at various levels. But I will say I also play a number of different styles of defenders as well as controllers. I have seen many teams rock through the missions without the need of a healer.
The problem is people don't always see the effects of the other defenders. When the radiation defender throws the debuffs that effect damage, regen, speed, and accuracy, those aren't effects that are noticed quite like the green numbers above a red-lining blaster (besides the fact that many teams will end up killing the anchor first (but that is a seperate issue)).
Basically, the teams live because of the defenders powers, but they don't always realize it.
Why not thank that defender the next time you team with them for the great debuffs or boosts. You could make someone's day!
Swiss
This space is currently under construction
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| 10/12/06 07:32 |
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bigspeer
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thank you swissypants!
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| 10/12/06 08:00 |
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Chuck Bronco
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I agree it is a difficult task. Most see def and automatically think HEALER. My first 50 is a blaster. And ill have to admit that i definately noticed the buffs i received, i didnt always notice the debuffs going on. I was always busy dishing out the smack down. Not until my later 30s did i really begin to apreciate the full potential of a def or troller. Since i have stepped over into other ATs, i have created binds calling out anchors and such for my rad/rad. I have to explain what what the anchor is to peeps all the time. But proper buffing and debuffing is just as good as heals within a good group. Finding that group is the hard part.
Tank'ns my Bidness and Bidness is GOOD!
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| 10/12/06 09:29 |
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sportgenius
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| QUOTE | (besides the fact that many teams will end up killing the anchor first (but that is a seperate issue)).
Swiss |
Thank you swiss!! I love playing Rad but its so hard to use the debuffs on anything other than a GM or AV cause teams instantly go after the anchor, even when I yell which one im targeting!
(Another awesome signature made by DeathFetish)
Razorgenius' Not-Quite-Updated Badges
There once was a genius with razors
With claws, he was a trail-blazer
He hit level 50
I thought that was nifty
So I called to say "Gratz!" on my Razr
--- Crookwood
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| 10/12/06 09:33 |
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XxdudexX
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thanks 4 the post im gonna play off and on becuase i dont want to give him up that much so ill be on off and on thanks again 4 the post everyone :D
XxdudexX
freedom heroes:
1800-pirate lvl 50 fire/kin/psi troller
1800-i killed u lvl 50 ill/emp/stone troller
1800-im peace lvl 26 peacebringer
rawk lvl 26 stone/em tank
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| 10/12/06 18:03 |
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Sunshine
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Welcome to the site Doc Awk!
its been so long... sooo long since i last played with an empathy healer... Its been really... weakening to me to have played through the thirties with the game chock full of them, and now they seem sorta rare for soem reason, and i eventually learned that every buff has his place. and yes ive played a healer. ill admit that i didnt always notice every person on the team, and one time i was even typing "Everyone look out AV in next room" but was sliow in the typing and they jumped in when i was only half done, so they died before i even finished it... funny funny. they didnt like it.
Moral of story- you cant rely on any one particular toon type all the time. you have to know your role, and fill it.
(This whole conflict, IMO, is the reason villains dont have empathy)
Thanks to Death Fetish for kicka$$ siggy!!!
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| 10/12/06 18:18 |
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Villainess Vines
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I feel ya I have a level 50 emp/rad defender and I had to quit many a team due to chuckle heads who thought it was my responsibility to be attached at their hip and heal him/her My philosophy is and always will be if your not in my range to heal you you dont get healed. I always tell my teams when we start that I will not run after people to heal them. What happens when you do that usually ends up in a team wipe because while your chasing the chucklehead the rest of the team doesn't get healed.
Also you say you run out of endo have you taken the fitness pool and gotten stamina if you havent I strongly suggest it. it reduces end cost dramatically without having to slot your heals with end reducers so you can heal higher because you can replace the end reducers with heal buffers.
Thanks to Death Fetish for this cool "siggy"
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| 10/12/06 19:45 |
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XxdudexX
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| QUOTE | | Also you say you run out of endo have you taken the fitness pool and gotten stamina if you havent I strongly suggest it. it reduces end cost dramatically without having to slot your heals with end reducers so you can heal higher because you can replace the end reducers with heal buffers. |
i have taken it and if u havent read yet i am a ill/emp controllers so LOTS less end thanks 4 the post
XxdudexX
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
freedom heroes:
1800-pirate lvl 50 fire/kin/psi troller
1800-i killed u lvl 50 ill/emp/stone troller
1800-im peace lvl 26 peacebringer
rawk lvl 26 stone/em tank
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| 10/12/06 22:31 |
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MightySmiter
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bad team indeed. as a scrapper, i probably take more damage than anyone, save for the tank. i know it int the healers job to make sure im at full health all of the time, thats why tthe devs gave us scrappers self heals, and ones that are quite a bit more potent than that of the tanks (at least for dark scrappers). any team that expects a controller to heal is either stupid, desperate, or good enough that they dont need much healing, with the latter being a very rare occurance. i say you tell teams that think your only job is to heal to go kick rocks or something, and you do what you want
COH GUARDIAN
MightySmiter dark/dark/body scrapper lvl 50
-Member of Protectors of Paragon City
PhantomPrincess ill/rad/fire controller lvl 50
-Member of The Golden Council
WoW Runetotem (retired)
Belain lvl 70 Human Paladin
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| 10/12/06 22:48 |
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Krulgur
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | (besides the fact that many teams will end up killing the anchor first (but that is a seperate issue)).
Swiss |
Thank you swiss!! I love playing Rad but its so hard to use the debuffs on anything other than a GM or AV cause teams instantly go after the anchor, even when I yell which one im targeting! |
The reason people kill the anchor first is because the debuffer usually puts the debuff on the wrong enemy. Logic dictates that you kill the enemy that is gonna do the most damage to you before you kill the peons. I have a lower level grav/rad, and I've learned to put the debuffs on the minions, it last longer that way. With my primary being a tank, why should I let the enemy boss (typically the one that can do the most damage to the group; such as area of effects, holds, etc) live the longest? At best put it on a lieutenant, something that can survive the initial group onslaught, and continue to debuff the area while you take down the boss and remaining pissants.
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| 10/13/06 02:26 |
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