GameAmp: The Truth About Sundering

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Sixchr

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The Truth About Sundering

I'm just going to explain the 20/20 Mod so everyone can understand it. Most people say "ZOMG! It's 20% Sundering! I need one for my new Axe/Sword/Hammer/Spear/Bow/Daggers/Scythe!" Well look into it mathematically. It's a 20% chance of Sundering so odds of it happening are 1 in 5 attacks (1:5). That's not a good ratio. Look at perfect Vamparic. Your doing +5 or +3 damage a hit and after 5 attacks thats +25 or +15 damage.Sundering boosts your attacks by 20% and when you look at it your only doing almost the same amount of damage as using a vamparic weapon and it doesn't have a chance at not working. If your using a Sword/Axe/Hammer/Spear why bother with the 20% Sundering when your using Adrenaline skills? In these situations it's best to use Furious to boost your damage and in the long run, you'll do a hell of a lot more damage than Sundering could. Using a Scythe or Daggers? Use a Zealous mod. Dervishes and Assassins can run out of energy quickly and if they are using a Zealous mod they can keep their energy up. And then there is the Bow. With Bows Vamparic and Zealous are great choices especially if your a Barrage Ranger. You'll be healing yourself (Vamparic) or keeping your Energy high (Zealous) while doing a lot of damage to large groups. And there is one thing most people don't understand about Sundering. It DOES NOT effect your skills! It has to be a normal attack for Sundering to work so in the long run you'll only do a max of 45 or so damage. Not to great compared to normal attacks and skills. Hope this helps a lot of you make newer weapon decisions and save some money.

11/12/06 09:29

mwpeck

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

QUOTE

If your using a Sword/Axe/Hammer/Spear why bother with the 20% Sundering when your using Adrenaline skills? In these situations it's best to use Furious to boost your damage and in the long run, you'll do a hell of a lot more damage than Sundering could.

I completely agree. Though you only get the double adren 1 out of every 10 hits. Though it happens so rarely, its nice when I can charge up Penetrating Blow in like 3 hits, instead of the 5 or so it usually takes.

Though I kinda disagree with vamp. The ONLY time vamp is worth the degen, is if you can counter it via mending or something, OR if your farming large groups and hitting a lot.(cyclone axe, triple chop, etc). Sure damage-wise, vamp can usually do more, on average then sundering. But think about it this way, vs 1 target, you steal 3 health per hit(with melee weps). Swords/Axes attack at a speed of 1 hit every 1.33 seconds. and because of the 1 degen you lose 2 health a second. You have to get something like 5 or more hits before you actually start gaining health off the vamp. But, as I said, if your barraging or cyclone axing, or have mending/another form of regen. Then yes, vamp is better.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

11/12/06 09:37

Jtbishop

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

+Cred for you ^_^

I agree sundering mods are way too overpriced for what little they can do.

11/12/06 09:42

hat-of-doom

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

The only time I use sundering weapons now Is when I dont want the degen from vamp when Im not fighting, cant see the point of sundering now anyway.

"Quis custodiet Ipsos custodes. - Who watches the watchmen?"

11/12/06 09:50

Hammerite Rozsda

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Sundering boost damage by 20%?
I thought it just lowers enemy armor by 20%, that is if target has 100, the attack will cause damage as if it was 80 AL.

Anyways, I agree with you, it does not worth the high price people ask for it.

In most cases Vampiric can deal more damage. Assassin double strikes mean 6 more damage. Much better, since as you say Sundering only works on normal attacks, and since Assassins usually do only combos, they will never see the benefit!

And once you attack more than 1 foe, Vamp can give you nice amounts of health as well with Cyclone Axe or Hundred Blades/Sun and Moon Strike.

Zealous is also a good weapon mod, especially for Assassins and Dervishes.
For Rangers it really only worth it if you take Barrage, since 1 enemy will not give you energy as fast as the extra pip would.

11/12/06 09:59

Lance Wrongbow

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

The only time I ever mod a weapon with sundering anymore is when I sell it for a greater profit ^^

Zealous ftw

+ cred for your time

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11/12/06 10:02

Sixchr

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

[QUOTE]Though I kinda disagree with vamp. The ONLY time vamp is worth the degen, is if you can counter it via mending or something, OR if your farming large groups and hitting a lot.(cyclone axe, triple chop, etc).[QUOTE]

Not really. You don't NEED Mending or something like that it's just based on what you prefer. I use Troll Unguent when my Health goes down about 100 points and if I'm waiting on an afk person or something I'll just switch my weapons around. But again, all based on personal opinion.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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11/12/06 10:03

geemann

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Problem with Vampiric is that it does a small degeneration on you. But I agree with everything you said otherwise.

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11/12/06 10:04

Sixchr

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Thanks for the feedback guys, had to rethink some of it and I completely understand your opinions. Just trying to help out the community. =)

QUOTE

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11/12/06 10:06

mwpeck

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

QUOTE

Not really. You don't NEED Mending or something like that it's just based on what you prefer. I use Troll Unguent when my Health goes down about 100 points and if I'm waiting on an afk person or something I'll just switch my weapons around. But again, all based on personal opinion.

Yeah, but for me, its more preferable to have a "Set and forget" regen so you dont have to worry about your life if your using vamp. The only time I've used it without some passive regen is playing as a barrage ranger. Same instance with my warrior for FoW Beach farming, Except that was using zealous cause I used 100 blades so i could get energy up fairly quickly. For normal gameplay though I try to stay away from health/energy degen stuff. Guess thats my style of playing though. :P

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

11/12/06 10:13

Dark Knight

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Woa! I didn't know sundering dosn't affect skills, damn that really does suck then. Ty +cred.

This is my old account.

11/12/06 10:27

l0rd_steven

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

+cred for taking ur time explaining this - u might also consider explaining how +30health is basically gone after u take 30dmg but +5armour will be in effect even when ur down to like 100health ;)

11/12/06 11:11

Future Man

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

This post is completly wrong, please please don't listen to it.

the REAL truth about Sundering, is that it doesn't boost your attack by 20% (like weapon customization) like Rozsda said, it ignores 20% of their armor.

So 20% of the time, you get an extra 20% armor pen. This comes in very handy if you are a warrior fighting a warrior. Because Strength gives you i belive 2% AP for every rank you have in it.

So if you are a warrior with 10 strenth (20%) and a Sundering mod (20%) you can have a 40% armor reduction. Or if you use the skill like Penetrating Blow (20%) you have a chance ignoring just as much. I don't know where you learned the fact it doesn't work on skills, and i have no idea why that would be true, or why i would belive you since you are 100% wrong about this.

But lets just say it works. You have 10 strength and a 20/20 mod and you use Penetrating blow. That could reach as much as 60% armor reduction. So if you are fighting a warrior with 90 armor you have a chance to lower their armor by 54. Which essentially will double your damage if you read the Wiki article on armor.

If I could give Negative cred I would. I'm sorry, but posts like this can really mess up the game, because one person raeds it and then they tell 5 people and then they tell 5 people and so on and so forth.

anyways....cheers

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/12/06 11:19

The Lizard 17

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

mmmm I agree with you... The reason that less ppl use vamp or a zealous instead it's because the degen... If you have a degen on you, youre going to run into some problems, when not attacking, like running away or trying to save yourself having that -1 health or energy could be critical... If you think you are going to attack and just that (like in AB, running away it's pretty useless) it's ok... There are many mods better than sundering, it just depends on what you plan to do...

And HERE is my best GW video so far...

11/12/06 11:25

mwpeck

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

QUOTE

I was pretty sure thats how it worked, but wiki was moving a little slow for me so I didnt bother checking. This is why I only commented on the Furious and Vamp mods. Thanks for clearing it up and now that you mention it I do recall reading this on wiki some time ago. +cred

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

11/12/06 11:26

The Sister

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Ah, this old debate. Vamp is used a lot in PvP, especially by iway warriors, sins and shocks wars. The effect of the vamp mod has absolutely NOTHING to do with the health gain, this is not the point of vamp. The idea behind Vamp (where pvp is concerned at least) is so that you can deal more damage. Most melee characters using a vamp weapon in pvp will also have either a sundering or furious weapon in a second set to build up adren, or just wait for the spike, and then switch to the vamp set before the spike to deal extra damage.

I've never worked out the maths behind sundering though, and it is insteresting to know. I personally like to have several weapon sets with me always, to allow flexibility in both PvE and PvP. Sometimes you need that bit of extra energy, so switch over breifly to a +15-1 set, or whatever. It's always good to come prepared :)

11/12/06 11:40

mwpeck

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Ok, well, after looking at wiki. Here's a quote to check out.

QUOTE

Armor penetration, often abbreviated as AP, refers to the amount of an opponent's armor that is ignored when calculating damage from a single damage-dealing attack or skill.

Sundering deals 20% armor-penetration, which stacks with either the strength AP, or the AP from a skill, therefore with 10 strength, if you hit with the sundering mod and get the armor penetration, then you will have 30% armor penetration on that hit. However, penetrating blow and strength do NOT stack, so if you use penetrating blow with 10 strength, you will ONLY do 20% armor penetration. However, if you use penetrating blow and you get the sundering hit from your weapon, you will do 40% armor penetration(instead of 60% mentioned above), because a Sundering mod does +20%, whereas the strength and penetrating blow do NOT stack, because penetrating blow gives 20%, it doesnt ADD 20%. Therefore if you have a build with 10 or higher strength, penetrating blow doesnt add any armor penetration, it simple hits for +5-17 and adds 10% armor penetration(adds less the higher your strength).

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

11/12/06 12:00

Hammerite Rozsda

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

QUOTE

Sundering deals 20% armor-penetration, which stacks with either the strength AP, or the AP from a skill, therefore with 10 strength, if you hit with the sundering mod and get the armor penetration, then you will have 40% armor penetration on that hit. However, penetrating blow and strength do NOT stack, so if you use penetrating blow with 10 strength, you will ONLY do 20% armor penetration. However, if you use penetrating blow and you get the sundering hit from your weapon, you will do 40% armor penetration(instead of 60% mentioned above), because a Sundering mod does +20%, whereas the strength and penetrating blow do NOT stack, because penetrating blow gives 20%, it doesnt ADD 20%. Therefore if you have a build with 10 or higher strength, Sundering is completely useless as it does NOT stack with the 20% your strength gives.

Thanks for clearing that. I was just finished with my post, asking the same thing, but I was sure someone will explain it =D
Yes, Strength AP and Penetrating AP do not stack.

11/12/06 12:13

jelmewnema

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

QUOTE

I have to note that the armor penetration of skills doesn't stack with the sundering mods, so that's 20% 2 the waste. I don't know how it stacks with strenght btw.

Edit: This is from guildwiki(penetrating blow). The Bonus supplied by Strength attribute points does not apply to. this skill. The sundering mod does stack with strenght

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/12/06 12:18

Brynden

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

I have to say, I completely disagree with this post. There is not a single skill or weapon mod in this game that is worthless. I personally prefer sundering over vampiric. Granted, I can't see the effect as obviously, but it's there. Sure, vampiric weapons are better for spike damage, since it's a guaranteed +5 or +3 damage, but you have to add in the negative effect of the -1 health degen. In PvP, this isn't all that big a deal, you switch to your vamp weapon for the spike, and use a furious other times. But in PvE, running around with -1 health degen all the time and switching weapons all over the place is annoying. I also don't like using skills like mending too much.

I am having some serious trouble with guildwiki, so I can't make certain of this, but I cannot imagine why the strength attribute and a sundering mod would not work on skills. I think you are wrong about that and shouldn't post something claiming so without backing it up. You mislead people. I do know that it does not stack with things like sundering attack and penetrating blow, but that is because of the description of the skill. 'This attack has 20% armor penetration.' That's it, it has 20%, no changing it. However, any other skills I don't see why they wouldn't add onto them.

Also, I am pretty sure the strength attribute only give +1% armor penetration to attacks, not +2%. If a warrior had +20% armor penetration on all attacks then penetrating blow would be kind of a useless skill.

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11/12/06 12:39

Rap Man

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Actually the sundering bonus from a hilt stacks with either strength or a sundering attack not both. It also stacks with judge's insight and hornbows. Taken fromwiki

11/12/06 12:42

hat-of-doom

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

its not actually that hard to handle 1 degen, and swapping weapons every so often isnt going to kill you either...

11/12/06 12:44

Sixchr

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

QUOTE

I accept the feedback but the way I am I take that as Flaming. What I'm saying is yes Sundering has a 20% chance at reducing someone's armor and using a Vamparic help do more damage. If you took the time to udnerstand this post you would have understood what I said.
And again, I'm saying in general not specifically Warriors. And again, that's a Flame to me personally so I hope you feel proud of it...I'm just trying to help the community not ruin things for others. If you have anything based on your opinion PM it to me not saying it here.

QUOTE

"You're only young once, but growing up is optional."

11/12/06 12:45

mwpeck

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Ok, well, i realized a fault in my previous post. I said that if you have 10 or more strength then the sundering is useless, i was in a rush and didnt realized what I had type. I have edited it to be correct.

The armor penetration from strength DOES stack with sundering. What I meant to say is if you have 10 or more strength, all penetrating blow does is give you +5-17 damage, it doesnt give you 20% + 10% from you strength, it simply replaces the 10% with a 20%.(which means with 10 strength, Penetrating Blow only truely gives you 10% armor penetration)

EDIT: Therefore, with 10 strength, you will ALWAYS have 10% armor penetration, and with a 20/20 sundering mod, 1 out of 5 of your hits will do 30% armor penetration.

Not to mention this who strength deal is only for warriors though.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

11/12/06 12:59

Bubbada Muse

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

hmm i think the lesson to be learned here is that you must must do your homework before posting something like this. many people come here because we are nice and friendly and helpful and will give you the proper information to help you out. Some people can sift through all this and find the truth but new guild wars players cannont so clarity and accuracy is a must when you are posting on something like this. Just remeber in the future that helping the community is a noble cause but you are not help if what you post is wrong, you are just causing chaos and confusion that will hurt the overall experience of comming to gameamp.

*edit* hit the add reply before i made sure evertying was allright.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/12/06 13:05

Brynden

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Amen. +cred.

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11/12/06 13:10

Brynden

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

Oh, and I just checked on my warrior, and each point in strength is 1% armor penetration. Now, I can't check on wiki, but it doesn't say 'each point in strength gives you +1% armor penetration' just 'gives you 1% armor penetration.' So I'm not sure that would stack, but if mwpeck got it from guildwiki, then I'll believe it.

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11/12/06 13:14

Future Man

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

I would like to extend my apologies to you Six, i didn't want to come off as "flaming" against you personally. I was really just commenting on what you posted, and wouldn't consider it flaming

but i re-reading my post i think i was waaaaay to harsh. I didn't mean to come off like that sorry

11/12/06 13:15

mwpeck

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

QUOTE

hmmm....ok......i thought for sure wiki said each point gives 2% armor penetration. I'll edit it.

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

11/12/06 13:19

Faitios

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RE: The Truth About Sundering

so is that why r spikes use vampiric weapons?

11/12/06 13:39

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