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bigspeer

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Tank and Scrapper question

This question goes out to tanks, scrapper, and those who love them.

I've noticed over the past year or so that a lot of scrappers make the claim "i can tank when needed" or something along those lines.

Whenever I read a statement like this, I take it as "I can take the alpha almost as good as a tank." I know that scrappers truly cannot tank like a tank. No scrapper could ever hold aggro like a tank. They just arent equipped or designed for the job.

What do my fellow tanks and scrappers have to say about the subject?

12/08/06 19:29

Crookwood

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I am by no mean an expert with either (or any, to tell the truth) archtype, but my take is this:

The scrapper is one of the most versatile(sp?) archtypes. It has different tools for different situations. It can deal damage like a blaster or take it like a tanker. However, the emphasis is no "like". They are not tankers or blasters, but they can pretend to be in a pinch.

Here is my analogy: A scrapper is a Swiss Army Knife, and a Tanker is a Butcher Knife. Now, the Swiss Army Knife is a bit more versatile and can be used in more situations. It's easy to carry around, has some extra doo-dads, and can help in an emergency. And it deffinetly has some situations where it is the best option. But when you need to cut something big, the Swiss Army Knife just isn't gonna cut it. You need the Butcher Kife to come in and do what it was made for.

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12/08/06 20:00

RonJ73

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I'll agree with that. A scrapper with the Presence pool (Provoke) and it's single target taunt could probably manage a reasonable (swiss army knife) amount of aggro holding. I, personally, have never tried tanking with my scrapper, since he wasn't built for that (no taunt, no provoke). But I can see one being built as a high damage, not very effective, tanker.

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12/08/06 21:56

Aurrius

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

QUOTE

I have both a Scrapper and Tanker, and I found that the Scrapper is (for me) solely for blasting out major amounts of damage in the least amount of time. Also, since I have a 50 Stalker (my first toon), my playing style is a bit Stalkerish, so I'm not good at tanking anyway!

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QUOTE

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12/09/06 02:09

Grifter0408

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

Blackhawk (my main MA/SR) has tanked but it was only for a short duration as the "real" tank was being rezzed or whatnot. My biggest tank job ever was against the Psychic Babbage and he was +2 levels over me.

The dang tank ran in, attack then for some strange reason got one shot by the Babbage. By then everybody else had ran in. So I being the other melee stepped up and started to hold aggro while the others rezzed, healed, and rebuffed the tank. This took about 1min...maybe 1min 1/2. Some how I survived the whole thing...prob thanks to Elude (which was pre-nerf Elude and ED). It wasnt very fun to do and I rather be worrying about how much damage I was doing compared to keeping aggro so others can do what they do w/o dying.

Before ED, I think some scrapper builds could do the job but now I dont think so. Unless they run Full Secondary Defenses (SR, Regen, Invul...I dont think DA would be good set to try w/ now that I have looked at it), Fighting Pool, Taunt Pool and carry plenty of inspiration. No I rather have an honest to god tank than scrapper. Tanks are my buddy despite how much I make fun of them. They let me do what I need to do till they die then I have to do what they do for a short period. Scrappers can probably do the job against Bosses (no more than +2), EBs (prob +1), but AVs not anymore. I tried Infernal once...that was ugly...constantly popping greens to stay alive.

No give me a tank anyday so I can work my death dealing.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

12/09/06 07:24

Red_Scout

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I think I ran into one Scrapper like that over my time of playing Tanks. I do believe I was on Black Scout at the time because he didn't have a normal Tanker build, I was going for a more wild, try to be a controllerish build for PvP. Since I wasn't really capable of being the beauty queen of the team for them I let the runner up take lead with me right behind him. I had no AoE's and the taunt I had was from the Presence Pool. Not a very easy build to roll with, so I decided to respec out of it and take on the Tanker Build until I get to Warburg for PvP action.

But if I was with Red Scout and some Scrapper said that S, I'd challenge him to it. See if he can take top dog spot, if he does then what's the point in having me? I'll take off and do what I do best all along... play with myself. I know that seems like take my ball and go home kind of thing, but seriously... I really don't care to be on a team unless its with my SG, Coalition, or if someone is really struggling against an AV/EB.

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12/09/06 09:57

Wyllde

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I team with a scrapper now when im on Wyllde, the man is a death dealer, but if I should go down, he's going to have a hard time living throw an assualt of a big group or against an av. It is in now way that he's not a great player, and his Spines/Regen toon just destroys thing but that is pretty much one at a time, a very fast one at a time, but one at a time still. Without a tanker there, it can just be too much aggro to control without the aoe taunt, our taunt shields, are attacks that taunt the mobs. I don't think any pool can make up for that much mob control.

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12/09/06 10:24

Grifter0408

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

QUOTE

I agree with you on that Red, whats the point of a tanker if a scrap can do that plus deal damage. I think before ED and the Scrapper Nerf (of top level secondary power) they could do that job w/ the aid of hasten. But with the introduction of those two "fixes" I really dont see it viable for a scrapper to do it against an EB or AV (at least it shouldnt happen). Only in a pinch should the scrapper step in (multi bosses or death of MT).

If I was a tank and some scrap did that to me, I would probably pack up and go to. Let them think he can do it and then when they come crying back because Tyrant destroyed them then say nah...I found a better team.

12/09/06 11:38

Detra

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

QUOTE

Here is my analogy: A scrapper is a Swiss Army Knife, and a Tanker is a Butcher Knife. Now, the Swiss Army Knife is a bit more versatile and can be used in more situations. It's easy to carry around, has some extra doo-dads, and can help in an emergency. And it deffinetly has some situations where it is the best option. But when you need to cut something big, the Swiss Army Knife just isn't gonna cut it. You need the Butcher Kife to come in and do what it was made for. .

That is cute! I am like a Doo-dad!! I totally think that is awesome!!!

Seriously though..While I am good damaged dealer, I can not hold aggro. I don't have the mega "BOOM" thingy. Like has been said, I follow the tanker in. Let him lead. The few and far times I have teamed outside of my SG in PvE, I have heard all kinda crap. Like why can't I do this or that.. Uhm... wow thanx for expecting me to do something w/ out asking first, and getting pissed off cause I can't. ::quit team::

Detra

12/09/06 13:00

Detra

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

...double post..

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

12/09/06 13:00

jinxycat

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

scrappers used to be able to tank like tanks and better than some tanks (if someone made one not to the best it could be) i used to be able to with my invuln katana tank +4 groups and lots of them at once. and cos of unyeilding stance i could actually hold aggro a bit, i could herd too.

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12/09/06 13:54

Warron Peace

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I'll just state that alot of tanking involves playstyle. Tankers can run in and stand there and take hits. Good for them. That can also get them killed. My style with my scrapper is more a PvP kiting style, where I use the surroundings to break line of sight and avoid damage. I was recently on a team of 8 fighting Malta on the woods portal map (think shadow hunter map) and we accidently pulled two mobs, as they were spawned too close together. Well, even with the sappers taken out quickly (two controllers, held them fast) the tank still died, as did the invuln scrap. I kept on fighting, killing all the minions as the team wiped around me. Finally it came down to me vs. the 5 +3 Bosses, 2 slingers, 2 tac-op commanders, and a zeus titan. I proceeded to bounce around at insane speeds, using rocks and trees to pull the slingers into tping after me, leaving the titan and tac-ops behind. Took out both slingers, one at a time, healed up, and took the titan out before the team got back from the hospital. They were just in time, as hasten, instant healing, dull pain, and reconstruction were all down, and it was looking painful. Tank got in there, taunted the bosses, and in 10 seconds, I was right back next to him, taking them out.

So yeah, I can't tank like most Tankers would, but by knowing my enemies and how they act, I can certainly take hits and take out foes fast enough. It's playstyle, not just HP and defenses.

W.P.

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12/09/06 14:11

marinex

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

Just had one of those " wow, I just hit 20, so now I'll be able to tank" comments out of a scrapper I was teamed with. They then went and leveled up. Wasn't even funny how that Idea got disproved in this case. I believe, in order to do it, you would have to respec so that you passed on a lot of the offense and spent your slots on defense. The stupid thing was this person wanted two good team tanks on the 8 toon team to stand aside and let them do the Job. The results were barely survivable, and I don't think someone should try it unless they are an Experienced Tanker, your TEAM's WELFARE has to be priority one, not showing off how much damage your Alpha Srike does compared to a Tank. Funny, but I think the end of "X-Men: The Last Stand" gave a lot of Scrappers the idea that they are the Center of the team and the toughest. Phoenix could have destroyed Wolverine easily if she wanted too, she didn't, she could have just hurled him into orbit etc, ( no way to heal from suffocation if you are still suffocating ), Colossus would have had a better chance, but not by much or for long. Wolvie survived because she really didn't WANT to kill him. The Villians in CoH have no such limitations and will kill you if they can, OUR Galactus is Hamidon and look how many Level 50 toons have been almost One shot by the big Jello-Mold. We all have jobs, and there is nothing more enjoyable and effortless about this game than a good Team with all Archetypes represented and doing the Job they were designed for.

12/10/06 10:34

Ram Man

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I have a lvl 50 scrapper hes an dm/regen and i have to say if there is no tank on the team than im usally the one tanking the mish. Im not saying im as good as a tank is at doing this but a scrapper is the second best thing. The main reason why i belive i can tank though is because i got tough and weave and i got the provke , and all my defenses have at least 4 slots on each one. But a tank is still better to have on a team.

12/16/06 19:46

Brimstone Titan

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Actually, can anyone really tank?

No scrapper can truly tank over a long period of time. They can in short periods of time, with eleude or MoG, or something like that running. Or maybe they can tank if they have a couple of trollers there to help keep them safe.

In fact, tanks really can't tank all that well anymore. That's why hardly any of them bother with taunt anymore. Ya ya... you don't HAVE to have it... but has anyone noticed how RARE it is that anyone does? It's like they're all brutes, without the rage bar. Anyways, tanks are so wimpy anymore they have to have some kind of group status effect to survive heavy mobs or be granite. This leads me to my next thought.

The devs need to make the tank AT more appealing, there isn't enough of them out there. I feel more protected with a controller on my team then a tank nowadays. Like I said, for a tank to survive heavy mobs, he needs some kind of backup with group status effect. Brim has fault, which is a great group stun, Big has ice patch which works well for him. But we'd both bite it about 1,000 times more if we didn't.

Well, maybe 100 times more for me and a 1000 times more for him..... ;-)

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12/16/06 21:14

LordStarwolf

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

Actually, I just respec'ed my fire/em tank to turn him into more of a scranker build, and hes just as tough as he used to be and kills faster than a scrapper. He's mucho fun now. And My regen scrapper can tank for a short period of time, even without MoG. When I pop dull pain and instant healing at the same time, I'm nearly indestructible for a couple of minutes. That is also being mucho fun.

Guardian
Avant Guard = Emp/Rad/Psychic Defender Lvl 50 (Dedicated Healer)
Astral Plane = Peacebringer Lvl 50
Spica = Fire/Em/Energy Tank Lvl 50 (Scranker)
Avant Spines = Spines/Regen Scrapper Lvl 50 (AOE King)
Beliskner = Eng/Eng Blaster Lvl 41 (Blapper)
Avant Kin = Ill/Kin Controller Lvl 36
BMG = AR/Dev Blaster Lvl 27
Avant Psy = Psychic Blast/Empathy Defender Lvl 20 (Offender)
Avant Def = Kinetics/Energy Blast Defender Lvl 16
Avant Stone = Stone/Storm Controller lvl 15 (Super Controller)
Umbral Plane = Warshade Lvl 14
Triumph
Lord Yu = MA/Regen Scrapper Lvl 24
Protector
T-99 = Ice/Ice Tanker Lvl 20
Electrostun = Electric/EM Blaster Lvl 21 (Sapper)
Starwolf = Katana/Inv Scrapper Lvl 18 (my very first toon, 3 years ago)
Pinnacle
Avant Claws = Claws/Regen Scrapper Lvl 18 (Non-power pool toon)
Champion
Avant Dragon = Fire/Fire Blaster Lvl 20
Freedom
Avant Arch = Archery/NRG Blaster Lvl 27

And many, many, many more....

12/16/06 22:54

DDkat

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

Brim is right I feel, Tankers need help.

I'll try not to turn this into a rant.

Basically, I feel scrappers are overpowered, and were made that way out of an attempt to make a 'soloist' AT.

They can severely outdamage a tanker (one on one shouldn't need a comparison, and a good spines scrapper will make a fire tank hide in the corner and cry about his/her AoE damage) without losing much in the way of durability. They only really suffer from aggro manegement.

Blasters suffer similarly when compared to scrappers, but this is the tanker thread so I won't go anymore into that.

As for the aggro, you have to keep in mind this isn't World of Whatevercraft or similar games where the tanker losing aggro automatically equals a doomed party (certain exceptions aside, and I don't think an AT should be based around exceptions).

A scrapper can use provoke for adequate loose tanking, and you'll hardly miss a beat when combined with a controller in the party. Frankly, I feel I'm safer in a party with two controllers than any number of tankers.

This doesn't stop me from inviting tankers, as I do like their party based mindset, but I think they need help.

CoV really has a better AT synergy, less stepping on the toes. But I always liked to play the Hero more.

12/18/06 12:23

Electro

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I have a Spines/Regen Scrapper and he is capable of pseudo-tanking, depending on the mob group size. Quills does a great job of grabbing/holding aggro. The trouble is, and probably always will be, the mobs' alpha strike. I have heard it said before about regen scrappers that if they do not die in the first 20 seconds (excluding AV & GM fights), they will be victorious, and after playing one to 50 I agree with the statement for the most part. Survive the alpha, and he can tank fairly well.

12/18/06 12:52

Thundarpants

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

Well I guess I'll chime in as the squishy that has regularly heard their friendly Scrappers claim they could be the Tank.

Most of you have already hit the high spots......

PRE-nerf and ED..... /Regen Scrappers were Tanking almost all the AV's in the game. I never knew enough /Super Reflexes Scrappers to know how well they did before the change like Grifter's toon.

Post-correction and ED greatly reduced their ability to do this on the AV's for sure, but in mission they are still only good as short term Tank when things go wrong.

I'm really good at generating a high amount of DPS on my Blasters and if the Scrapper is dinking around with Provoke and stuff like that, all attention turns to me. The Presence power pool is by no means on par with the Tankers Taunt and Aura-vokes/Punch-vokes. They simply cannot properly hold the aggro. And that means multiple wipes.

The Scrapper can Tank in missions if the mobs can be dealt with quickly or you have an over abundance of Control. But I shy away from teams where the Scrapper thinks he can Tank Malta or Nemesis if I start seeing red and purple cons right off. Generaly, if I don't see any purple, we can usually complete the mission safely without a Tank as long as we have enough support and use proper strategy for the pulls. A Scrapper trying to tank also cannot pull the same way.

I myself play a Stone/Stone Tank for fun. And fun is the exact word for it. ED has opened the door for a lot of Tanker variation builds. My SG leader has a Stone/Stone as well, but always looked at my build and questioned my survivability because I built a Scranker. He had the opportunity to run a squishy behind her the other day and told me himself he was wrong about her build.

You can be involved in the fight and still Tank. In fact my AoE's are what helps me maintain my aggro control because of the change to Taunt. I can hit a lot more with Mud Pots and Fault than my Taunt. So I NEED to keep fighting to hold the aggro on me. It makes it a lot of fun.

So you see, it's not a simple cut and dried question.
What mobs are you fighting?
What level are they spawning and what difficulty setting is the mish on?
Who do you have for support?
Who else is generating DPS while the Scrapper tries to Tank?

From a squishie's point of view:

Sure Scrappers can Tank sometimes....... Just not really when you need it. If you have any Scrapper Tanking +3 and +4 Malta and Nemesis for a large team. Then get that Hero a cigar. If they are on a 4 player team going after +1 and +2 spawns they really aren't Tanking........ They are just being good Scrappers. They are designed to take those direct attacks from being up close and personal. That doesn't make them a Tank.

12/18/06 13:19

Spyweaver

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

Speaking from experience on this subject, and having played both tanks and scraps, Tanks can hold the aggro much better, but provide a scrap with the correct debuffs, he can do just about the same thing as a tank :)

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12/18/06 13:27

bigspeer

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

welcome to COH gameamp spyweaver! nice to have ya!

and secondly,

QUOTE

If you have any Scrapper Tanking +3 and +4 Malta and Nemesis for a large team. Then get that Hero a cigar.

i'd say crack open a fermented beverage and pour one out for that guy and his homies, too! those could be the worst enemies to fight in a large group as a tank, let alone trying to scrap-tank them. Malta are the only mob that could mezz me thru my mezz shield, and thats with no sappers either.

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12/18/06 14:08

Crookwood

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

On a "perfect" (wheather or not it is the best set up is debateable) team where all the AT's (5 or 7, take your pick) are represented, a scrapper is supposed to serve a similar role to a blaster: damage. In regards to tanking, scrappers are "Oh $#!%, the Tank (just died, got mezzed, etc)), and now all of the squishies are gonna die unless someone gets in there and takes the aggro" tankers for emergencies.

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12/18/06 14:29

Hellmeister

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

Tbh i know im still low and stuff but my tanks solos fine, he shall hit 20 shortly enough and yeah if anything when i do team its mostly with a blaster jsut to hurry things up that little bit...

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12/18/06 14:36

DDkat

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I have to address a few things from Thundarpants' post.

Having two controllers is far from an excess of control. Having one is just standard operations.

You assume that scrappers have to stop scrapping to play tank, and that's not true at all. Provoke is not much weaker than Taunt, it only requires a to-hit check, and it can be easily fit into a cycle with minimal dps loss.

It seems a lot of comments are based on poor to mediocre builds. Sure, I've seen bad scrappers that are nigh worthless, just like I've seen poor examples of any other AT. I'm basing my opinion on what they can do with proper design and planning, and what I've seen well designed scrappers do.

As far as that goes, crack open the cigars. Good SR scrappers can handle Malta *better* than tanks, doubling up on Practiced Brawler and avoiding the majority of the attacks completely. This one I've personally seen in action, as one of my friends is a MA/SR.

In my view, if I were to close my eyes to all other matters and look at the best team objectively, I would go with 6 scrappers and 2 controllers for almost any occasion. This team would steamroll anything meant for an 8 person team.

I don't think it's right that it stands that way, personally.

12/18/06 14:58

Thundarpants

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

DD is quite right on their assesment too.(sorry, never know proper gender so no he/she >^__^<)

Like I said, it's really not a cut and dried question, and a good Scrapper can work the presence pool into their standard attack routine if they are good. I've just seen way to many cocky Scrappers that thought they could tank when they really just weren't good enough to do it. I have an old commrade named Desolate Joker that could stand toe to toe and Tank on his Scrappers any day of the week, but he was an exceptional player. I would trust very few Scrappers to take point in extreem situations where a Tank should be.

But, debt to me is nothing. I've played for so long that It's just more influence before the next enhancement upgrade that I don't have to transfer. So watching Scrappers try and fail doesn't bother me at all.

QUOTE

In my view, if I were to close my eyes to all other matters and look at the best team objectively, I would go with 6 scrappers and 2 controllers for almost any occasion. This team would steamroll anything meant for an 8 person team.

With out a doubt this would be a steamrolling team. Take 6 Trollers and 2 bystanders and you get the same thing. 6 Blasters and 2 Trollers.... still a plow group. Honestly there hasn't been much that we haven't been able to do unless we get crazy and have too many people fighting +5 and +6 mobs in a plow group like that.

As for 2 Trollers being an over abundance and 1 just being standard. That's a whole nuther subject because when I'm on a Fire/Kin. I am an over abundance of control. 2 Trollers and no one has to work at it(even the Tank) 3 Trollers and you're power leveling.

I love this little bit from Big. Man I hate those frikin Malta!

QUOTE

If you have any Scrapper Tanking +3 and +4 Malta and Nemesis for a large team. Then get that Hero a cigar.

If you are taking it to the Malta with Scrappers only, no Tanks, on +3 and +4 mobs and full teams, then you are worthy of that frosty fermented beverage. Even when we balance the teams and put in our "ringers" they get to be a royal pain. AV's are easier!

I've just spent to much time behind the Tanks and Scraps to feel safe as a squishy when most Scraps try to do the tanking. Not that some of them are not competent to do the job. Good points DD. I love a good debate. >^__^<

12/18/06 16:55

Amadaeus

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

lol Aww...this thread almost makes me not want to be a Tanker anymore. >.<

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12/18/06 17:50

Brimstone Titan

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

When I said, "...in fact tanks really can't tank anymore..." I was refering to taking on 4+ mobs with 8 man teams without a healer. They just can't do that anymore, unless they're granite.

And it's a joke to think a scrapper can. They're lucky if they can survive the alpha strike. A regen with dull pain+instant healing+double stacked parry buff might be able to if the baddies aren't using ranged weapons on him. I've done that before. But, once again, that's out of the ordinary.

12/18/06 18:33

Thundarpants

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RE: Tank and Scrapper question

QUOTE

lol Aww...this thread almost makes me not want to be a Tanker anymore. >.<

See, I view it as just the opposite. The devs have been nerfing Scrappers for a while and finally got them down to the point that they can no longer replace the Tank in all situations.

Enhancement Diversification has changed how Tanks play a role in teams. As in they are no longer capable of the Power Leveling herding of before, but actually have to Tank to protect the teams. IMHO, ED put Tanks back to work.

Previously, my Blasters were capable of alpha strikes able to take out entire herds. Now, I have to actually fight a little longer and harder to take the mobs out. Therfore, making a good Tank much more valuable to me.

ED also made the Tanks actually have to work it. Although I'm not happy with all of the changes and agree that some got whacked a bit too hard. They can't just sit there and take anything that comes at them. Let's face it, if you can herd up 50 +3 warwolves and survive it, what is the challenge in the game or actually learning how to play it? Just stand on top of this rock while I take you from level 3 to 50 this afternoon. Before ED, I was actually thinking of dropping the game because there simply was no challenge.

Now Tankers actually have to think about how to maintain proper aggro and work with other powers in their sets to maintain that. Not just have all the shields, Hasten and Foot Stomp. I knew plenty of Tanks that left the game before ED because there was simply no challenge.

When I run with my SG, having a Tank on the team still almost equates to "plow group". They are still uber even if not at pre ED capabilities. The only time we wipe is when half of the team falls asleep because it's too easy. At least when the Scrappers are tanking there is a little chaos to manage. I don't mind that at all. The strays are easy meat for me!

On the contrary my friend, we need you to tank for us. You are more valuable than ever. Scrappers are not capable of replacing you as before.

World of Warcraft

Don't hate Raza because she's beautiful......
Because she's not......

12/19/06 11:10

Amadaeus

Posts: 4
Joined: 11/01/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Tank and Scrapper question

QUOTE

lol Aww...this thread almost makes me not want to be a Tanker anymore. >.<

Ah, it seems I was thinking on a wrong track while I was reading this.
I'm never afraid of having to actually work my job (I choose a job according to what it does, after all), I just didn't like the sound of others being able to do it just as well.
Maybe I misunderstood something along the way? Or maybe I'm under-estimating how rare these multi-role super-players are? My only fear is that I'll get stuck with tanking scrappers most of the way through and be put out of a job.
(just for clarification, I'm afraid of the scrappers that can actually tank, not any old scrapper that wants to tank)

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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12/19/06 11:46

Grifter0408

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 12
Joined: 11/30/2004
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Tank and Scrapper question

I think Thunderpants hit the nail dead on. Despite the changes they made to the game, the actually did it to make players play and not plow through the levels, mobs, and the game period. Sure its fun but whats the point when you can take 50 +3 Warwolves. That would get old fast, the people that complained about it were the ones that like it easy....they are the ones that use God mode when playing console games on easy mode, whats the point really.

If you play other MMOs with "tanks" you will see that yes they can handle bosses but they have to do it a certain way otherwise they die, the group dies, and well dying isn't much fun. Take WoW...Tanks in that game are known as Warriors, they have 3 different stances that all have different types of powers, abilities, and damage amounts. Depending on your stance will depend on how you can hold a mob (or boss) or the damage you can deal. If you cant maintain a balance between dealing damage while holding aggro its over. In CoH, there are no multiple stances.....you deal damage while holding aggro...tanks in CoH have it pretty easy in comparsion (I feel at least). The ED was something that helped establish a worth ethic (like Thunder mentioned) for those players.

QUOTE

lol Aww...this thread almost makes me not want to be a Tanker anymore. >.<

Dont let anyone deter you from trying a Tank build, try it out.

12/19/06 11:58

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