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Whimcycle

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Joined: 01/07/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

Howdy,

How many times have I heard someone say, {ok, so I read it in the chatbox.}, "Hey, Whim, get in the back!" Why do Controllers have to spend the time looking at everyone else's backside while the action is going on? Do people actually think it is safe back there? I've lost count the number of times I've suddenly found myself the focal point of a mob of critters that came up on the party's Six!

My main on Freedom is Whimcycle, an Illusion/Empathy controller. He is designed primarily to Solo, but in a team he does a fair job as a healer/buffer. Nowhere as good as a Defender his level, but he gets the job done. Now, correct me if I am right, but for the most part everyone that is taking damage is in the front. My Heal Aura isn't going reach the people that need it if I am half a hallway away.

Another thing that drives me forward are my attack spells. If the party is doing well, health-wise, I want to get in on the fun, folks! Ditto if the party is doing badly. The idiot childern of my Phantom Army have abandon fights to run back to where I am standing if I am too far away from the battle. Spectral Wounds are great, but sometimes a Flurry is needed to put a bad guy down.

So, Controllers stay to the rear? Or do you think as I do, if you can stay alive and keep your teammates alive at the same time while getting a few licks in it doesn't matter where you stand.

=~Whimcycle~=
A fleeting shadow in the crowd.

01/12/05 23:52

linkrapin

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Joined: 12/31/1969
Credibility: pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I agree with you, I have an emp defender and though I do not have any real "efective" attack powers... I feel safer in the action... right in the middle of it all... I dont like staying a hallway behind people either... Yeah I see that some people like to think that by putting a defender or a controller in the back it puts them in safety so that the defender wont die before he/she has a chance to heal anyone else who is healing but I still think a defender who is in the action has more of an advantage being in the action rather than watching it like a television set... Of course there are times when I think defenders should stay behind... like when AoE attacks which cause slowing powers down or taunting heroes is in effect... for example fightng shaman or mages... but otjher than that I like being in the action... which brings me to another good point to the game...

Don't blame other people for your death... and learn all the other archetypes... study them and understand what you would do in situations if you weere a tanker rather than your blasteer... or being a defender, rather than your scrapper... Think twice about telling your defender "Hurry up and Heal me!!" it will only make them mad... causing you to possibly be in a worse condition... like making your defender mad and making him not want to heal you any more... so yeah... understand why the tanker is having all the enmies on him... or knoe why the Controller isnt controlling the enemy...

Thank you for your time.. hehe

01/13/05 01:06

StevieG

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Joined: 07/06/2004
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Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

If you know when to fight and when to heal, then the other team members shouldn't have any problem with how you act on a team (especially if you RA buff the team before a fight), and I let them know right from the start, that I fight as well as protect the team.

You can't stay too far away if you have to "heal other" on a regular basis, because, you usually have one or two members that immediately race off to another mob the second they get finished with the current one, or in some cases, the second the team starts fighting the mob he/she aggroed he/she takes off for a new mob in the distance...unless you have 'range increase' from hell slotted into it, which I don't...in my "heal other", I have 3 slots for heal enhance and 3 slots for recharge reduction...the same for healing aura. Plus, to get the entire group with 'healing aura', you have to almost get right in the action.

Being a defender or a controller with empathy is a no win situation with some teams, you get screamed at if you do nothing but heal and you get screamed at when you try and help with the fight WHILE healing...usually in the same mission!! It happens to me almost every night I team with peeps I don't know.

***And a note of advice to all healers out there (defenders or controllers), learn which member of a team is the weakest and lock on to him/her, he/she's the one you will ususally have to spend over half your endurance healing, because he/she is the one who will throw themselves in the middle of mob and start fighting while the captain is screaming, "Hold on, end rest!" (Usually a blaster acting like a tanker)

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Ms Gibraltar
Stone/Stone Tanker Level 50
Triumph - Global Legends (retired but available)

Mr. Gibraltar
Dark/Empath Defender Level 6
Triumph - Global Academy

Sniper 1
AR/Energy Blaster Level 37
Triumph- Paragon City Vigilant Watch

Perky Dan
MC/Rad Controller Level 35
Triumph - The Triumphant 5

Howler Monkey
Sonic/Sonic Defender Level 26
Triumph

Cry Baybee
Sonic/Energy Blaster Level 18
Triumph

01/13/05 06:46

thejeni

Posts: 26
Joined: 08/12/2004
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Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

i would very angry if someone told me where to stand... you should stand where you can do your part best...and if you are trying to heal you do need to be in the center of the action.... i'm always going in w/ the tanks and scrappers when i'm playing my healer (yes healer, she is an emp/rad def).... they are the ones that need heal aura the most... but when i play my blaster, i try to be as far as my range slotted attacks will let me be

Siggy created by DeathFetish.

01/13/05 11:32

Grifter0408

GameAmp Staff
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Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

Yeah tell them next time they say something," ok if you want me in the back then bring the fight here becuase I will do my heal but you want get it."! Let them try to fight 15 guys w/ no inspiration and healer in the back. It is better to mass heal then individual heal. Individual heals do alot but with the cost of recharge and end it takes too much time. Dr Holdem is always in the fracas. Plus is attack powers are mass sleep and such and it helps to be in the middle to get as many as possible. Like I said tell then to bring the battle to you in the back.

01/13/05 14:04

strrdust

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Joined: 08/04/2004
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Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

my emp def is in with the melee... you tell me where to stand and I will forget that I have clear mind and fortitude... and oh yeah, and that nifty little thing called healing your dying butt when my aura can't reach you!

01/13/05 14:52

atra2

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Joined: 09/01/2004
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Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I find myself moving around a lot w/ Controller and Defender.

John316 starts a battle in one of two ways:

1) Allow melee guys to take some aggro, possibly the
blasters too, then PB AoE Disorient (Stalagmites).

2) Rush up (Steamy Mist for Stealth) and lead with
Stalagmites

Once the Stalagmites go off, next comes the Stone
Cages (area immob) with a Freezing Rain on top. Then
watch damage-dealers slaughter them.

Next level, 26, I get my area-hold :-) and will toss
in an Acc SO at 27, and insert area-hold between Disorient
and Immob.

Once I've done my initial "recipe for
wet-villain-burrito" I start tossing the O2 boosts for
any emergency healing or just healing on general principles,
then use my single-target hold and immo to lock down
stragglers.

Psalm 18 likes to open with a Snow Storm on the bad
guy that no teammate is running for, or opened with a
shot on. (sometimes it can be a boss, but sometimes the
group is so powerful you want to pick a minion off to the
side.)

The Freezing Rain (love this power!) follows, and as
both powers have some SLOW to them, the minor DoT doesn't
mean the mobs get to run far. (Snow Storm 6-slotted for
SLOW)

Having done that 1-2, the casting time was long enough
I look to see if anyone needs an O2 for healing, otherwise
it's time to pop the cork on the Endurance Drain action.

Now that the mobs are slowed, slipping and being knocked
down, and clustered well, I rush in for a Short Circuit
(which will be fully-SOed by 27 or so; Stamina and Hasten
will eat up all my funds for my 22 purchases) followed by
a Ball Lightning. (SC is 4-slotted, BL, 1, but remember:
I just put a Freezing Rain, which lowers enemy Resistance,
so I boosted my damage, as well as the party's)

At this point, some mobs might be standing up long
enough to get angry at me, but my damage pales compared
to the real damage dealers, so I usually steal no aggro,
even with my Snow Storm and Freezing Rain running, so
long as I let others start the battle.

I then pull back out of mid-melee, and toss O2 boosts
as needed, re-toggle Snow Storm if the mob died, fire the
level 1 newbie elec blast (1 slot, acc) to help finish
things off, and really, act like a Controller who has a
little more damage oomph to her.

And this is, by the way, shock of shocks, with
six TRAINING ENHANCEMENTS for Slow in Snow Storm.
Boo-ya. SS + Rain = major slow.

Next level (22) brings testing of how many DOs/SOs are
needed for certain effects, but otherwise enjoy how cheap
it is to refresh training enhancements on SOME powers.

Oh, and Psalm18 has Superspeed + Steamy Mist, so no
troubles racing in if needed. (At higher levels,
Aim + Short Circuit while super-stealthy may become my
Alpha Strike for boss-free mobs. Stupid Council Zenith
Mechs can already see through my double-stealth!)

So, in summary, my Controller rushes up for his
Disorient, but after that, can do everything at range, and
doesn't move too much unless he's being attacked in melee.
My Defender moves around a lot, because she has 6-slotted
Hasten, and her goal is, once the initial Alpha series
is done, spam Short Circuit and Freezing Rain as often as
possible. She strafes a lot.

The big secret to running such a mobile character,
though, is to have your camera view back fairly far, at
least 50 or so, at least enough to see the entire party
even if there are party members behind you.

Also keep in mind, when you O2 someone, if they are
behind you, you spin to heal them. If you right-click and
hold for Mouselook, you maintain camera view instead of
spinning the screen's view, but you'll want to target
and cast on something back in the battle, or just spin
manually, to refocus.

Sometimes, if I don't need to be in and out of the battle
then I will station myself behind the Blaster, so I can
heal anyone without turning around. Camera pulled back to
watch for ambushes of course.

And if you haven't guessed by now, I run an
Earth/Storm Controller and Storm/Electric Defender.
I love Storm. Great set.

B: 38, 26 / C: 50, 19, 8 / D: 38, 28, 21, 12, 10, 6, 4
T: 38, 30 / S: 30, 15, 14 / M: 22, 8 / St: 16 / Cp: 16, 14, 14
Infinity
ATRA Mk II 38 Energy/Energy Technology Blaster
John316 50 Earth Control/Storm Summoning/Ice Mastery Natural Controller - 415 hours
Stellaria 38 Radiation Emission/Radiation Blast Science Defender
Doctor Wallace 22 Robots/Force Fields Technology Mastermind
Yes, a certified alt-oholic!

01/13/05 14:52

Sapphire_Gypsy

Posts: 2
Joined: 08/17/2004
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

Honey you're preaching to the choir... I've got a 41 ill/emp controller... I and hear that too... after all these lvls my simple response is .... "Well it's your debt"... or "if I'm not close enough my pets don't attack... THAT they understand.

standing in the back is no easier than heading in close to the mob, when you get your phantasams the only way to keep them attacking is to keep in close range, and you can't do that in the back, and I'm not wasting slots on ranges when thy're better spent on Dmg or rchg.

So basically... unless they have played a controller I've started taking the stance that it's my character I'll play how I want... if you don't want to die then don't pi$$ off the healer :D

this was how I did it at lowers lvls and still do today... except I can now kill on my own and solo monsters (woo hoo go me ;)

I let a tank or a scrapper rush in... take some aggro... do an individual heal... if the need it, then come in with flash... that locks the others down (usually) for the blasters. IF there is no tank or scrapper just you and a blaster (as if often is with my and my BF) then I send my PA in as my tanks... no healing required.

Now your flash might have drawn some aggro fome the ones that it didn't lock down.... might use an area heal... if not then proceede to use pe, and other illusionary powers until others need healing :)

I will tell you this... at lower lvls you will be the healer Bi@tch, BUT once you start kicking butt and taking names, then all of the sudden it's ok with others on the team for you to do damage, then you'll start being invited cause your an illusion controller not cause you're a healer. Those are the days that will get you through the healer only days. AND when the odd occasion comes that you need to go back intohealer only mode (and it happens... rarely, but it happens) you will have had all this experience. :)

Just remember... unless it's a scrapper.. at 41... peoperly slotted... you can take out a lvl 41 Adamaster monster all by yourself!!! Watch a blaster do that!!! HAHAHAHA!!!

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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Click here to take the "Which Superhero are you?" quiz...

01/13/05 16:22

Thundarpants

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/18/2004
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

QUOTE

(Usually a blaster acting like a tanker)

Oh that hurts! lol. You have no idea how much debt I had to clear before I figured that little jewel out! Damn devs gave us melee attacks. Then n00bz like me think I should use them on a regular basis.

As for the location in the battle. attra2, as usual, has some really good advise. Learning your best location in the fight is sometimes hard to determine, and it helps to listen to advise from experienced players, but the back is not always for you. With powers like Steamy Mist, and Healing Aura you are better in a more centered position. It really depends on your power set. I also have problems with my pet leaving the battle if I get too far from him, even if there is a villain to zap. (yes, I got Voltaic Sentinel. It's so cute! For some reason or another they've gotten a bad rap.)

I personally think that Empathy Controllers and Defenders work a little better in the middle of the team. Scrappers and Tankers up front, healer in the middle, and Blasters close behind, or next to. The points about Healing Aura, and Recovery Aura pretty much say it all. They are both PBAOE. I have Cinders on my controller, and if you don't get in the thick of things, you really waste it. But I prefer a run in, cast, and back up approach. So many of the powers are situational, you really just need to see if the powers you have are PBAOE, or more effective at range where you can sit back and watch the fun. I love watching decoys work a crowd. It's just funny to me for some reason! :}

I did have flurry on my Controller until the last free respec, and had plenty of fun getting a few licks in once I had everything in flames. Just remember you don't have the health bar or defenses of Scrappers and Tankers. Timing is everything. Go ahead and get you licks in, but not immediately. Like the earlier posts said, let the Scrappers and Tankers draw agro first. You may also find that some of your AOE powers will draw plenty of attention to you already. Stragglers that get missed in the AOE holds will come looking for you!

World of Warcraft

Don't hate Raza because she's beautiful......
Because she's not......

01/13/05 16:27

Whimcycle

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Joined: 01/07/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

Hummm,

It appears I pressed a hot button. {grin} I think the folks that always want the Controllers and Defenders in the back have never played them. Myself, I've run most every combo of character in beta and since it went live. But I've always been a healer at heart, {I've run clerics since my D&D days}, a controller is the closest I've found being a 'cleric'. A fire controller's Cinders spell is best used on an unsuspecting, tightly packed mob. I too would run in throw it, then back track.

And this act would drive the Tankers and Scappers nuts. Hence the 'Get in the Back!' comments would come. The fact that they could spend the next minute happy pummeling an unresisting foe didn't sink in. And Yes, once the heals started to taper off, people, at least the ones that team with me on a regular basis, WANT me in the middle of the pack.

I usually find it is the new groups I team with that have the mentality that Controller and Defenders are gentle folks requiring protection.

=~Whimcycle~=
A fleeting shadow in the crowd.

01/13/05 19:29

atra2

Posts: 0
Joined: 09/01/2004
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

QUOTE

I usually find it is the new groups I team with that have the mentality that Controller and Defenders are gentle folks requiring protection.

That's generally true. Keep in mind my two 20+
"gentle folk" both have Steamy Mist :-) so aren't
quite so gentle.

There is a n00b mistake that I made at level 12, that
can make people think that way.

Every controller has something cool at 12. For Earth,
it's Stalagmites.

Oh boy oh boy! Finally I get this cool area-nuke well
ahead of my area-hold!

Door #1: I run for a group of red/purple 5th column to
help my teammates, pop a Stalag.

Result: I am Alpha Striked by an Oberst (Boss) and
a lieut, each with uber-grenade. Debt City in 1 second or
less. They were not disoriented of course :-)

Moral: pop an Acc inspiration before using a
Controller nuke on reds/purps so you HIT them, and don't
do it to a group with a purple boss at all :-)

Just as there are Blasters who earn the Debt badge
way early, there are Controllers and such who don't
understand aggro, and always pop their area nuke before
the tanker/scrapper go in, etc. They get the debt badge
too.

Now, vs. blues/greens/whites, leading off with the
disorient works pretty well. I'd pop an acc insp for
whites, unless you have an SO for acc. (or 2 DOs, or
4 trainers)

Fortunately, all those early deaths for piddly debt
like 300xp or so were learning experiences, and I die
rarely with any of my 20+ ATs now that debt is 3k+ a pop.

(Though even then, mission XP bonus means I can clear
one death's debt in about 2-3 missions, since I'm getting
1000+ xp per mission bonus, not counting xp for mobs)

Now, if I wasn't doing PBAOE, I'd be hanging way in
back, but I think it's a nice design choice that Cryptic
made, that the weaklings NEED to be in the middle for
certain powers, or even certain entire powersets (Storm),
cause it keeps us active and involved, not "click and
snooze." Build 6 power plants, 2 ore collectors, a
soldier factory and tank factory at game start, just
like RTS games... No way! CoH is much more fun than that!

01/13/05 19:40

Jade_Dahlia

Posts: 0
Joined: 01/15/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

[QUOTE] Why do Controllers have to spend the time looking at everyone else's backside while the action is going on?QUOTE]

I can only think of a handful of times that a team has told me to stay in the back. Mainly because I tend to tell them I will be where I want so I can best heal them. Mind Control is actually good to be in the front, particularly at higher levels, so you can "prep" the enemy for the main damagers to come in and clean up.

Worst case scenario, tell your team you will go where it is best. As you are healing/debuffing/buffing, and consequently, you know where it is best to be to service your team the most efficiently. If they still want to tell you what to do, find another team. It's not worth killing your fun over. :)

Jade Dahlia

Mind/Empathy Controller
Pinnacle Server

01/15/05 14:31

DarthDemise

Posts:
Joined: 12/31/1969
Credibility: pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I just hate it when people tell me how to play my character. I know what my powers are and where to stand to use them better than they do and it doesnt take much of that oh so precious endurnace to set my brawl on auto. If they dont want me in the middle of the room where i can look for more foes to mez or cage, they probably dont want a hands-on guy like me on their team!

I actually teamed up with a really smart controller once who wanted just one tank and everyone else blasters and controllers. Sweet Eftreet, i think her name was. She had a great strategy: Make the tank stand still and bonk whoever came close, use every one of those aoe knockback attacks that honk off all the tanks, cage them as far away as possible and blast them from nearest to farest. It was great and I got to blast away all the time! Who says controllers can't have any fun?

03/04/05 14:34

Boxxy

Posts:
Joined: 12/31/1969
Credibility: pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I got a level 29 Earth/Rad troller myself, and i can actually tank 3+ mobs better then alot of people. I couldnt stand being placed far away from a fight, im always in the middle and (unless the tank is herding, and even then most of the time) im always the one to start the fight and piss everyone off. Trollers should stay up front if they want to, i've only die when i stay back on my own.

07/15/05 17:53

Malicious_Intent_2001

Posts: 0
Joined: 01/28/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

My opinion is that you should play how you'd like to play. However, I also recommend that you take your teams' lives into account. If you can safely run into the fray, then feel free. It's your $15 per month. If a teammate feels strongly about keeping you in the back, offer the suggestion that he/she can quit the team. You aren't endangering him, so it's not really any of his business. Of course, I also encourage you to say it as politely as possible. :)

Malicious

"Hell is empty, and all the devils are here." - William Shakespeare

Another beautiful Death Fetish creation.

GUARDIAN
Mr Brightside - Lvl 50 Illusion/Radiation Emission Controller w/ PSIONICS MASTERY

Mynd Warp - Lvl 39 Earth/Storm Controller

GLOBAL
@Malicious-Intent

07/15/05 18:03

Randell44

Posts: 0
Joined: 10/20/2004
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

OK variety of AT require dif play styles.

Illusion gets it easy....run in with superior invis and flash once the fight has started then cancel invis and mop up.

Earth...Your better off single target until some aggro has been built up. Then you can stalagmite :P.

SALT Crystals however require both you be in the middle and the team know its a sleep.

If your not strong on AOE...it works wonders.

I gotta say though...If im kinetics and im hurt Im prolly gonna use my own heal spam to heal myself.

In any and all situations dont tell me what to do lol. I know my classes and it shows as we fight.

Main Hero

Gaurdian Server

Deciever.-lvl 29 illusion/kinetics controller

Myriad alts in the 20-1 area.

NO OTHER SERVERS!!

07/16/05 06:27

Dark Illusions

Posts: 56
Joined: 10/13/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I completely agree that I feel safer in the middle of the fight. I kind of serve as a troller/scrapper because of my high damage flurry. In my opinion, I DEFINITLY should have picked hasten, but I just like to go in the middle of the fight and flail aimlessly. Not only does it look incredibly funny, but it shows those tankers/scrappers/blasters/defenders that us controllers are not just people who stand on the side buffing and confusing, we like to get some of the action too!

I am an empathy illusion as well, and what some people fail to realize is that I am NOT a defender, I am a controller with healing/buffing ability that I use frequently enough. Because if you rely on me too much, you are going to be sorry!

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

10/20/05 15:59

LittleMikey

Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I have to write not to disagree with any of you but to stand up for the fellow tankers. I for one will never tell a person how to play their toon unless... they are dieing and hurting the team doing it.

What I mean is this simple, a healer or other squishy cannot help the team when they are on thier backs... or faces for that matter. I have never had a problem with them running up to do whatever they need to do. If that means healing aura, nova attack, group aoe, anything that they feel they can contribute then they should. What irks me is when one of them will be sitting right next to me... just sitting there until I need a heal or someone else does. The reason.... aoes.

If any of you have played the high levels, and im not saying you havent, then you know that after about level 47 all you hit is mobs with aoe attacks. Nemesis are famous for it, so are the demons in the Infernal mission and many more. I as a tank can hold the aggro and I feel like I do a great job, but anyone around me or in melee range are going to get hit. Defenders, Controllers, and Blasters are not built to take those hits. Having a Defender and a Scrapper that I play with religously I know that if they stand next to me or in melee range they die. Now one of them is Kinetics, a must for any stone tanker, and when he runs in to do fulcrum shift that is fine... albeit he has died a time or two doing this. Now if he camped next to me that would not have made me happy, he would have died more and been helping the team.

All I am saying is being in melee range is not a bad thing, in my opinion, but camping there is not smart and it will hurt you later on.

**This opinion has been formed from me playing from the low 20s all the way up to 50 with a group of 8 almost all of the time. So this opinion will not hold up to solo or prolly not even a small group.

Victory Server
Big Tommy -- Lvl 50 Stone/Stone Tanker
Dea Di Fulmine -- Lvl 29 Elec/Elec Blaster

10/20/05 16:24

Jedicop

Posts: 0
Joined: 09/19/2005
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Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

As a tank I can tell you this much, I don't want you in front of me initially. It is usually the tank making first contact which means I like a clear path and no squishies for the mobs to zero in on. It really does make a difference if someone is in front of me on first contact. Once I hit "taunt", anyone in front of me seems to get in mob's way and piss them off and now I got a splinter group off on him and one group on me. Anyway, once I get my first taunt off and get the mobs around me then I don't care where the heck you get, front, back, it don't matter at that point.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

"I smell ice cream!"

10/20/05 16:45

Dark Illusions

Posts: 56
Joined: 10/13/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Re: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

Indeed, a tanker's job is to take all of the damage so that us controllers and defenders don't get completely killed. And I completely agree with the tankers here that they do not want people in front of them. A controller or defender standing right in front of a tanker is not a great idea. And I'm glad that you know not to tell people how to play their characters. I basically do not take a side at all. I'm just saying that you never know when a surprise ambush could come, so technically, in those situations, a controller/defender should be in the middle. Not in the front, that's what a tanker is good at. Just in the middle where they can heal/buff/damage everybody.

10/22/05 00:19

blacktomcat

Posts: 1
Joined: 01/11/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I'll agree that the Tank is supposed to take the brunt, however, I too feel that the best place for a controller to be is in the thick of the action.

I recall in the life of my Mind/Rad controller a certain Frostfire mish. It was a second floor fight (in the BIG room) and it was going poorly. Our tank (a Inv/Fire if I remember right) had most of the aggro. A number of folks were taking turns retreating from the room because there was just too much aggro for the tank to hold (and too spread out). He was seriously in the red and I was standing there next to him, pounding out Radiant Aura over and over, hitting AM and Mass Hypnosis as they came up. Unfortunately, it was a losing battle. The tank (and half the rest of the team) lay face-down and the rest of us were forced to retreat. After we had gathered on first floor and were teleporting bodies, the tank THANKED me. He said there was no way he could have stayed up as long as he did without my help. It was a hairy situation, but even in the face of defeat, moments like these are gratifying.

More recently, I was on a full team taking on the Tsoo tatoo parlor mission with the same Mind/Rad controller. There were two other controllers (Mind/Kinetics and Earth/Storm) a couple of tanks (Inv/Energy and Stone/Stone), a defender (Kinetics/Electric), a blaster (Electric/Electric) and a scrapper (MA/SR). In one of the large areas, I found myself in the middle of (again) too much aggro. Everyone was dropping like flies. So we're sitting there with only the three controllers left standing. We basically went back-to-back-to back and managed over the next 5 minutes to take out the entire room by alternating our area effects and healing. When the dust cleared, one of the tanks said 'You three were amazing!' It was a profound moment for me.

I'm not just telling this to toot my own horn (okay, maybe a little), but to say that controllers are not just stumbling wimps and do indeed belong in the thick of the fight.

=^..^= . o O (Nothing to see. Just a cat.)
(_""_)~

01/31/06 18:53

gec72

Posts: 0
Joined: 08/05/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

When I started playing, I was playing with a bunch of guys I know from another site. One of the guys has played a ton of MMORPGs, and happened to roll an EMP/Psi just like I did. He told me that *THE* place to be was right by the tank. He also said that if you were focusing on just straight healing (big team setting), you shouldn't attack because a) you don't want to draw aggro, b) you don't want to burn end, and c) you don't want to be in the middle of something else when you might need to send a heal somewhere. I figured he knew what he was talking about, because before you knew it he had leveled up all the way to 18 (just a couple of days). Heck, my emp still isn't that high (another thing he advised was that I concentrate on developing my primary, which didn't make me very potent as a solo toon, which is what I tend to do the most).

But I agree - you want to be right in there on the front line. Especially if you have a ranged heal.

Virtue
Lvl 50 Red Menacer BS/Regen Scrapper
Lvl 33 Blue-Agave Mind/Kin Controller
Lvl 28 Oro Liquido INV/EM Tanker
Lvl 21 Lady Elixir Emp/Psi Defender
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Lvl 14 Emma's Dolly MA/Dark Scrapper
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01/31/06 20:09

gec72

Posts: 0
Joined: 08/05/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

* nevermind, timeout led to a double post *

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/31/06 20:10

DieselJester

Posts: 0
Joined: 11/27/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I've found, playing my Emp Defender, that the safest place is usually right behind the Tank up in the middle of it all. That way I can heal the person who's designed to take all of the damage and agro away from us squsihies. So whenever I'm playing my blasters or tanker, you'll never hear me tell the controller/defender where to stand at so long as they're healing the group.

As far as telling another player how to play their character, I really wish people would shut up about that. If I had a dollar for everytime I heard people tell me how I should Tank or Blast, I'd be a rich man.

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01/31/06 20:47

Thundarpants

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/18/2004
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

Yeah, about the only time the Empath should stay clear of the Tank is when he is drawing a lot of AoE like Nems like to dish out.

But you know what, most good empaths know that and don't need to be told....... And those that don't will figure it out soon enough. lol

It's actually kinda funny. In our SG everybody tanks....... except the tanks. hehehehe The Tanks are all going to Scranker builds because of the nerfs.

There are actually different formations you should take to properly dispatch the different types of mobs. I've always been a strong proponent of aggresive play styles. My SG's Empath's don't get bored when I run one of my Blasters.

Now, the only caviot to this is if you have died 3 battle encounters in a row, maaaaaaaybe you should take a little constructive advise.

I know my Fire/Kin Troller loves to be deep in the mix. Cinders, Fulcrum Shift, Fire Ball. Now that's freakin fun! How am I supposed to pull off a PBAoE without getting down in there?!

If everyone is still standing when it's over.......go for it!

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Because she's not......

01/31/06 21:32

singularity

Posts: 39
Joined: 08/14/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

I would be mad if someone told my troller to get in the back. My controller (Grav/FF) would beast for damage and buffing, and here is how:

1. He has singularity, propel, lift, forcebolt, and power blast (at least, he will later on).

2. He has repulsion bomb, grant invis, force bubble, dispersion bubble, deflection shield, and insulation shield.

3. If things get bad, I have Invisibility, Phase shift, recall friend and teleport.

Now, if someone tells me to get in the back, I wouldn't get angry about it. Just give them the slip and find another team that actually accepts the vitality of the controller (not only the controller, but all archetypes), as I have met some great teams that had all 6. (see Protrusion's 7 Rules for Teamplay in CoH Guides).

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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02/03/06 20:31

DarkSide_UK

Posts: 36
Joined: 10/19/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

Get in the Back!?! who you kidding!

i have a lvl 50 grav/emp controller with Fire Mastery as my epic

i'm a fan of getting right up near the front as i can lay down a lot of damage and i can heal those who need it.

GDF + Crushing Field + Fireball= Dead Mob

Nuff Said

Dark Side
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02/12/06 21:38

LordXenophon

Posts: 4
Joined: 02/28/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

What really bugs me is when they insist ALL defenders have to stay in the back and just heal, whether an Emp or not. I've been told many times while playing my DDD to get back and stop acting like a tank. Unfortunatly, if I stand back, the tank isn't included in the very small healing radius of my Twilight Grasp. Furthermore, all those attacks I spread around (which is why I get accused of acting like a tank) each have 4 to-hit debuff DO's in them! One hit from each attack on one target and that guy can't even hit the dirt! If I listened to their advice, I'd be a very bad defender indeed. Asking a DDD to stay in the back and just heal is like asking him to just go home and let the big boys handle the mission.

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02/12/06 22:58

Anachron

Posts: 7
Joined: 07/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Hey, get in the back! You're not a ...

As a lvl50 tank (and every level before) I have let the healers do their thing (often warning of impending doom), yeah I take aggro but i'm no Llama who thinks he's unstoppable, I know if I eat dirt the rest of the team is going to suffer.

If you Heal Buff Debuff or whatever you do, stick by my side cause' I want the assistance I will keep the aggro off you and you will keep me alive, everyone wins, if I make your job hard or impossible then by all means tell me, I would rather be informed before I foolishly sacrifice myself.

I have the tanker mentality, and as such sometimes need a swift kick in the common sense department, yeah I do my job and I do it D*** well, but every now and then I Ego Trip eh... who doesn't?

You keep doing your job well and i'll keep doing mine, and if it means anything I expect debt, if me going down gives the rest of the team time to bail then i'm glad to do it, don't throw away your skills on me if the rest of the team will benefit from you.

Keep up the good work. :D

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

--CHAMPION - CoH-SG: CHAOS CONTROL - When Chaos happens we'll be right in the middle of it.
[Anachron] 50 - Mutation Tanker- Ice / Super / Ice
[The KRLL] 50 - Warshade (pronounced 'Krell' ) Nova / Dwarf
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02/13/06 05:24

Delphon

Posts: 16
Joined: 08/02/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

I am not a Sympathy defender.

QUOTE

Dead ON, I am not a Sympathy Defender; My primary job in my mind is to defend (and heal) the Tank, if he dies the rest just get picked off one at a time including the defender and control if they dont phase out.

If you regularly agro secondary groups or ignore the tank's instructions when he clearly defines that he is herding - I assure you I can let you die while keeping the rest of the team in tact. This also appllies if you agro things then run to me so the Tank and I get to clean up your mess.

If commentary comes from anyone on the team other than the Leader or the tank I just consider it noise. If I disagree with how the Leader or the Tank feels I should perform - I discuss it with them (few of them have any idea how to play an Emp Def) and leave the team when not in battle if we cannot agree.

I do carefully watch all members of the team and try to support them, even leaving the Tank for short periods as required if they get in trouble by no fault of their own. I expect other members to stay in my Aura, return to it while they still have HP, and to come when I state "Gather"; if they do not I see that a failure on their part to plan. I rarely find time to ressurect these until the battle is over ;-)

Delphon

02/13/06 07:06

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