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King Derrrrrr

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Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

the soul reaping only works every 5 sec now Y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

04/05/07 16:56

Kanna

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

It was only a matter of time. -_- What is the big deal with it being "nurfed". I don't think it will be hurt that much.

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04/05/07 16:59

Elder ex

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

me too, only for bloodspike in HA. For MM it won't be that bad I think ...

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04/05/07 17:00

Rogue

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

Because it was broken. SR should never have been affected by spirits. It allowed necro/any's to have limitless energy. SR is still a valid form of E-Management, but should hopefully bring the balance of necros back into line with other classes.

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04/05/07 17:01

mriswith

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

Simple answer:
When was the last time several foes died within 5 secs at the same time? Even in a B/p in Tombs i have hardly had something like that happen. Every 5 seconds is fine. Wont change anything on any necro build except for PvP.

necromancer all the way

04/05/07 17:04

King Derrrrrr

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

i have alread tryed my mm build and it dose hurt my build alot i run out of energy relly fast now also in tombs in 1 mob i am only getting about 3 or 4 of the deaths for me energy

04/05/07 17:14

Brynden

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

I'd have to disagree, Maya. Quite often I notice that I'm getting a crazy huge amount of energy, all very quickly. Also, once things start dying, I'm usually summoning constantly, that's once every 3 seconds or so, so things have to be dying faster than that. I think this is a major hit, but it will still be useable.

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04/05/07 17:20

Rogue

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

IMO They should have fixed it to not be affected by spirits. That is all.

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04/05/07 17:21

mriswith

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

QUOTE

Well ever since the initial 'nerf' of the necros (read limited minions) i have been focussing more on keeping minions alive then actually raise them (for info; my guide 'MM do's and dont's ecplains it a bit)/ Whence i have 10; i refresh only when i see some minions with too low health to heal with BotM.

Dont see this update on another 'hit' towards necros. It will just involve new tactics on how to use the profession.

necromancer all the way

04/05/07 17:23

Keo

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

I run with a Sup SR & a Sup for whatever I'm doing. As a MM I also use a +15 energy set so I have about 80 energy. Having a larger pool means that when you want to cast you can and it's filled up in the background.

With minions being reduced to 15 energy I can now raise about 40 before I run dry (with SR @ 10)...I think that's enough.

Maths before you complain:

A minions costs 15 energy but you can't raise one until something dies, then you have to wait for something else to die to raise another...10 energy from SR -15 from the spell making the overall cost 5 energy.
The recharge on Fiends is 5 secs so something is going to die for you to use the body either before the skill recharges or once it's ready.

I really don't see a huge problem.

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04/05/07 17:24

mriswith

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

QUOTE

IMO They should have fixed it to not be affected by spirits. That is all.

Soul reaping never gave the actual amount back when a spirit died. With sould reaping set in 11; a dying spirit gave +5 energy except for the usual 11.

And i agree with Keo (as seen from my previous posts in this thread lol) within 1 hour since the update you cant expect to gotten used to SR being refreshed every 5 secs. Experiment a little bit. In the end itll be all fine ^^

necromancer all the way

04/05/07 17:28

Rogue

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

QUOTE

Soul reaping never gave the actual amount back when a spirit died. With sould reaping set in 11; a dying spirit gave +5 energy except for the usual 11.

It started out bringing the full amount from spirits, then was "balanced" to bring half normal amount. It SHOULD be NO energy at all from spirits, but take away the 5 second thing.

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04/05/07 17:32

Evil Geek

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

You know what, I'm glad it's given us something a little extra to think about, the most used and sought after builds in team settings (such as SS, BiP and MM) have become almost clockwork, If I have to focus more on energy use then I will play that little more with how I run a build and what skills could augment it rather than staying with the tried and trusted, from what I'm seeing the difference is going to be negligable in PvE.

Is it a 'Nurf'/'Nerf' ? No definately not IMO, the great MM Nerf wasnt a 'nerf' either - I played MM during the factions PvE, with unlimited minions, a Flesh Golem and Vampiric fiends it was really obvious to me the MM was seriously overpowered and needed a change, IMO they got it right, I trust Anet on this one too.

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04/05/07 17:37

Rogue

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

QUOTE

Is it a 'Nurf'/'Nerf' ?

People know what you mean when you say either one, however "Nerf" is typically looked on as correct.

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04/05/07 17:39

Cheddar

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

honestly, This is a blow to the MM as i find that when i am in a fire fight where i am losing minions while healing them, i need to make more. i tried it out in some of the more difficult places like late game factions and find that i run out of energy trying to maintain 10 minions while healing them. i understand that this move was governed mainly by PVP blood/curse necro builds and that it will put them in check but the fact that they did it in such a way that hurts PvE necros really bites. i personally agree that the spirits should be taken away.

oh and flavor wise, a necro would not hold back on siphoning the energy from someone dying, and the fact that the spirits that are summoned by rangers and rts arent really dying, just going back to the spirit world they were summoned from makes that part more of a target than the 5 sec crap.

at least they didnt harm my other professions, i dont use my monk so the zealous benidiction doesnt matter to me.

04/05/07 21:12

Chrisworld

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

Evil Geek, you know deep down inside you wanna tear some heads off and scream because of this nerf.

lol j/k man

04/05/07 21:18

aznese guy

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

I really don't think this is a big nerf at all. Soul Reaping was a crazy way to manage energy and it was kinda overpowering e management for others.

quit gw for good. end of story.

04/05/07 21:25

Alphic Guardian

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

lol I always thought Soul Reaping was underpowered since I would hang around in the back =P and I preferred something you can start with like energy storage _._ looks like a lot of people are agreeing just get rid of the spirit part of soul reaping

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04/05/07 21:32

cswella

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

I like this update. Here's why:

I've long thought that "Why should Necros get some of the best E-management skills and not Mesmers? And Necros don't even use their skills because of Soul Reaping?!?!?!"

*I'm planning to post a big suggestion to Anet for making Mesmers more desirable in PvE*

But anyway, I can't see this as a huge hit to Necros. Bring Signet of Lost Souls with. You have Offering of Blood. Well of Power. Cultist's Fervor. Reaper's Mark. Why weren't people using them? Because Soul Reaping was enough. Now that it's more of a CHALLENGE to play necromancer, it'll be fun to see the new builds that pop up.

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04/05/07 21:45

lord_gkar

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

well this is a first for me am kinda of a newbie necro but I just did Gate of Madness using a SV built I have always used there since NF came out

Using it the same way I always did I could barelly maintain my energy lvl so much that at one point I needed to alternate Succor on my monks in order to give me a fighting chance,,, so dunno but I believe that a lot of built will be comming out to counteract this but for me it is one disapointement (but I will get over it trust me)

04/05/07 22:02

Mysterious Guy

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

i think this will hurt necro's for energy managment

i have not tried my PvP builds yet but i'm sure for the builds like in Fort Aspenwood and Aliiance Battles it will make it harder for necros to be an MM because of energy lossage

especially in fort aspenwood i found myself to get exsesive ammount of energy - this made it so i could constantly cast an SS oriented build upon my foes. now i will have to use my skills more wisely

all in all: i think this will bring out stratagy and planning into the game for necros. because of this limit they will have to rethink most builds and how to use them, GOOD JOB ANET FOR GIVING US A CHALLENGE!

04/05/07 22:30

gotmywings

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

This was definitely a plus to me. I just started a MM build about 2 weeks ago in Prophecies (my first), and have found ways to maintain energy without relying on SR anyways. Sig of Lost Souls is a good example, and if you go N/Me, just bring some energy stealing skills. Really can't be too difficult. I prefer to keep my minions alive, not have to rely on energy to bring up more.

04/05/07 23:09

Seth Oneil

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

QUOTE

I was saying that in alliance chat for so long. Every support profession was N/misc. because the spirits would provide limitless energy.

It wont effect PvE at all, RARELY do monsters die within a 5 second interval. Even if they do chances are you're back to full energy anyway. Plus you have time to regen unlike in PvP.

IT wont matter we'll learn to live with it just like when we learnt to live with the AoE patch.

QUOTE

Jagged Bones (Nightfall) Elite Skill
Elite Enchantment Spell: For 30 seconds, whenever target undead servant dies, it is replaced by a level 0 to 15 Jagged Horror that causes Bleeding with each of its attacks.

You can enchant your minions with that and you don't even have to heal them, PLUS you cause bleeding. It pretty much garuntees you limitless minions at a 5 eneergy cost and a 5 second recharge. It's insane. You can cause bleeding and whena minion dies another one is resurrected... all for 5 energy... if you use animate bone minions (2 per corpse) it'll only be 40 energy each. And you can maintain them pretty much as long as you are paying attention. Add soul reaping to that and you have immense power. It needed to be hit a little and you know it. 5 seconds is not a very long time. You'll get over it xD

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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04/06/07 01:08

Pickletron

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

It was a much needed change, so was Zealous Benediction.
Only thing I don't like is 2 Bone Minions dying at once only gives you one lot of energy :D

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04/06/07 01:54

The Sister

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

QUOTE

It was a much needed change, so was Zealous Benediction.
Only thing I don't like is 2 Bone Minions dying at once only gives you one lot of energy :D

Lol, no I can confirm that you get energy from both, Bspike teams in PvP usually run a guy with 0 in Death Magic and Animate Bone Minions :D

As for the PvE discussion...bear in mind that most skill balances come because of the two biggest aspects of the game:

1. PvP - Guildwars was designed as a PvP game (it's in the name), most of these changes won't affect the PvE community in terms of general missions/quests/group farming etc as much as they will the PvP community. Generally they get hit because they're so widely overused, Anet much prefer it if people were using some of the other skills they spent time making. Soul Reaping was being seriously mocked in PvP by using N/Mo and N/Rt healers combined with spirit spammers and minions to give them infinite energy. It was a great idea, but does somewhat exploit the powerfulness of Soul Reaping.

2.Farming - Mainly concerning solo farming builds which lead to overfarming of certain areas, or managing to farm in ways unitended for those areas, such as the Protective Bond Invimonk from wayyyy back. The Ancestor's Visage/Sympathetic Visage nerf for instance doesn't affect PvP 1 little bit, but put off a lot of people from doing solo and duo UW.

So, Anet is basically trying to encourage a more varied use of skills in an area which has become very stale. Why should someone have to have a specific build? I'm quite a fan of the idea of diversifying the game, although I don't necessarily agree with all the "skill-balances initially, they do tend to make things different, and make people reconsider builds, and inevitably come up with something better. Without updates like these we would never find new builds, because we'd be stuck using the old ones forever, as that's the "norm".

04/06/07 03:23

PiousDevil

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

Hi guys...its been a while since i posted anything....but this latest...addition, to GW has really got my blood boiling, Soul reaping was one of the most unique attributes in most games ive seen...it worked fine for about 2 years, and NOW Anet sees fit to try and mess about with it....why? i just dont get the point, its insanely annoying, the MM thing wasnt a nerf, that was just balancing, the AoE effect wasnt a nerf, that was balancing, but SR, THIS is what I would call an insane nerf...*sigh*, Try going out in Grenths Footprint (prophecies) and fight a couple of groups of enemies, with 10 minuions, and see how much you have been affected by this new and IMHO NOT NEEDED update. I am so pissed off, *sigh*

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04/06/07 03:38

Skippz

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

I'm glad they nerfed this!! ^_^

At least now running a lame hex team will be harder than usual. I don't see why you should get no energy from spirits tho :S I mean it's still a death when it dies. I think this nerf is aimed at hex teams that abuse the SR with spirits etc etc.

They lowered the energy cost for minions now....so you should have no problems with your energy.

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04/06/07 04:00

PiousDevil

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

dude its not about, the fact that its okay or not, its the idea behind it...WHY WHY and WHY!!!!!! Hex teams are unique, there are always ways to counter these hexers, smite hex etc etc, thats just an excuse your using. Oh and not all minions have had there nrg dropped, bone fiends still are 25, the staple of my minion army.

"The worst crimes aren't commited by the body, they're invented in the mind. The urge to kill is the purest evil and supressing it only lasts so long..."

04/06/07 04:04

cswella

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

QUOTE

dude its not about, the fact that its okay or not, its the idea behind it...WHY WHY and WHY!!!!!!

Why? Because Necros were being abused as healers, ritualists, massive damage, etc. And it was constant due to SR.

In those situations, why even bother having +4 regen? It was insane how much energy and for how long you could maintain it.

The balance of energy between two teams should be equal, as to keep player skill-sets and skills the deciding factor for victory or not. With the abuse of Soul Reaping, it was just a matter of one team waiting out the other team.

With this high amount of Necro teams running around, it was getting near impossible for any other build to flourish. Balanced teams couldn't kill the Necro monks because energy wasn't a problem when they were spamming high energy skills.

Though I do agree that something needed to be done, I don't think this was the best solution. I would've just disallowed energy from spirits altogether.

But one good thing about this specific change to Soul Reaping is that people will start using the awesome Necro E-Management MUCH more often. It seems a shame that the class with the best e-management skills don't even use them.

I was running an FoC build earlier today and had no energy issues when I ran Signet of Lost Souls.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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04/06/07 04:19

senchu

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RE: Nurf Necro Soul Reaping

i might be that simple but... i haven't really noticed..

ok u might dry up on energy.. just change your casting rate ^^

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04/06/07 05:11

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