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rareorwelldone
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Ok, well, in my days of playing Guild Wars, ive noticed that many people are conflicted over the use of Endure or Defy Pain. I am, for one, a fan of both, and i think they are prime tanking skills.
For one, Defy Pain is one of the economic (right word?) skills for a tank i think there is out there. Tanks are looking to stay alive for as long as possible, to never die. As Defy Pain gives armor and health, it is in my opinion the prime skill for tanking. And the fact that you can keep it up indefinately in battle is a major plus.
The main cause for debate i think is Endure Pain. The fact that you can only keep it up for about 18 seconds is the main concern. Many monks do not like seeing your health drop nearly 300 points during a battle, and they let you know.
But, Endure Pain should not be used with a careless attitude. It should only be used when you are deep in trouble, and the boost of health should give the monk time to heal you up and get you back on your feet. Most of the time when you arent getting healed as a tank, it is because the monk is under pressure, out of energy, or the mob is broken up severely and attacking everyone.
The 18 seconds from Endure Pain should give the monks time to sort out their problems and get back to healing you, or, the mob is killed and you no longer have to worry about your health.
Hopefully i didnt take up too much of your time. Feel free to debate, or not. I would like to hear why so many people dont like either of these skills
P.S. This was spawned by a group that did not appreciate my tanking skills. I died in a mob of elementalists with absolutely no monk backup, and i still only barely died
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| 05/18/07 18:29 |
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mwpeck
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| QUOTE | | Hopefully i didnt take up too much of your time. Feel free to debate, or not. I would like to hear why so many people dont like either of these skills |
First off, I love both of the skills. :P
Though I dont use them for tanking as I dont tank on my warrior (I have never set my warrior up to strictly tank). Anyway, They are both great skills.
Defy Pain: Combine that with Dolyak Signet at 16 Strength, and you have +42 armor and +314 life.
The problem is when people want a warrior to tank, they dont want them to soak up damage, they want them to avoid it with things like Bonetti's Defense and Gladiator's Defense(which will take up the elite slot, but provide some damage too).
Endure Pain has its uses too, though I dont use it for typical PvE, I have activated it with 1 life left while running, saving my skin and the run.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 05/18/07 18:43 |
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Brynden
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I didn't really know this was a debate. I agree with you though, they're both great skills. And I also agree with mwpeck, though I don't think glads defense is the best skill for tanking, as it would cause aggro to break.
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| 05/18/07 19:14 |
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cswella
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From a Monk's standpoint:
Don't use either one. As a primary prot monk, you gaining extra health makes me less effective. I can keep you alive with Prot Spirit, Shield of Absorption, and Spirit Bond. More health just means less I can do.
From a Warrior's standpoint:
Use Defy Pain if you want, it's maintainable and gives armor. Not the most efficient +armor skill around, but it works.
Drop Endure Pain and take Watch Yourself. The added armor gives more benefit than the extra health will AND you give it to others as well. Endure Pain may be better than Watch Yourself in the cases of Degen, but Degen maxes out at -10 and a good heal monk won't be fazed by it.
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| 05/18/07 19:15 |
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Arabian Battle Axe
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i play as a warrior most of the time (my only lvl 20 PvE character lvl 20 :P) so.. i dont use either. endure pain is good in tight situations, but it can really screw you over. like stated above, people use it a the wrong time, and it kills them. and yes, tanks are suppose to take the hits, not avoid them. so i have a really good idea!
Dolyak signet
Rune of superior absorption
Ascalon/ Knights armor
Aromor of the Earth
Armor of the Mist
Obsidian Flesh
Physical Resistance
Elemental Resistance
Signet of Stamina
there are just a few skills that popped into my head.
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| 05/18/07 19:19 |
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mwpeck
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| QUOTE | | I didn't really know this was a debate. I agree with you though, they're both great skills. And I also agree with mwpeck, though I don't think glads defense is the best skill for tanking, as it would cause aggro to break. |
It didn't back before NF, and I don't think it does in normal mode anymore....though you really shouldn't need a tank for normal mode.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
| Update in whenever I dont feel lazy. | |
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| 05/18/07 19:30 |
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cswella
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No need to fill a skill bar for tanking unless you're tanking an extremely high level area like Domain of Anguish.
Sentinel's Armor
12+1 in strength
9+1+2 in tactics
rest in weapon of choice +1 rune
Shove[Elite]
Distracting Blow
Wild Blow
Watch Yourself
Soldiers Strike
Disciplined Stance
Riposte
Rebirth
I can tank Gate of Pain on Hard Mode with this build. Basically you run up to one of the elementalists, Shove him while he's casting Meteor Shower, and move to the next elementalist and distracting blow him. Any other skills they use won't have much of an effect on you.
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| 05/18/07 19:32 |
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Barbarian210
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i totally agree, i made a build focused around Defy pain, but i'm too lazy to post it right now, and to MWpeck, theres a mistake on your first post, the total armor boost would be +62 not +42 as dolyak would give you +42 and defy pain +20 at 16 str
IGNS:
Barbarian Two One O, W/Anything, All 3 campaigns beaten
Barrage Two One O, R/me/mo, mainly used for B/P
Monk Two One O, Mo Restarted for survivor title
Ganker Two One O, A/E going to use for ToPK in a little bit 
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| 05/18/07 19:50 |
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Charlotte The Harlot
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Defy pain is ok in a pve situation the +armor is nice a wasted elite in most pvp situations tho. Endure pain aside from running is pretty useless when it comes to pve in with an average team.
In pvp Endure Pain takes alot of crap not because its really a bad skill but it doesn't really have a place on an average gvg/ha warriors skill bar but in alliance battles I used to use it in place of my rez sig on my all str/(whatever weapon) warrior allowing me to overextend more if necessary while most likely giving my monk more time to catch up.
All in all endure pain isn't great but occasionally has its uses and defy I would say is ok in pve assuming you can hold the aggro that is.
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| 05/18/07 19:58 |
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rareorwelldone
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I totally agree with... all of you agreeing with me. I have done many tanking builds, and so far i find Defy pain to be my facvorite tank skill. And yes, i use dolyak and take around 0 dmg
I also find that using flail works amazing, as the 33% slow down will do almost nothing to you while dolyak is up, and allows you to keep Defy up much easier
As for glads, i dont find that it lasts long enough or does enough damage to really make a difference. Also, it can be removed with wild blow or a similar skill, while defy pain is on until it ends.
But yes, in all, i think that the player is the one that needs to govern whether or not to use endure pain, as it is essentially a skill that you need to use carefully. But with a good aggro and a good AoE caster, the 1000 health and 60 armor definately makes you last long enough to finish off the mob
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| 05/18/07 20:28 |
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mwpeck
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| QUOTE | | i totally agree, i made a build focused around Defy pain, but i'm too lazy to post it right now, and to MWpeck, theres a mistake on your first post, the total armor boost would be +62 not +42 as dolyak would give you +42 and defy pain +20 at 16 str |
Yeah......I was thinking +62....even thought I said +62, but apparently I typed +42....lol
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| 05/19/07 11:27 |
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Brynden
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Cswella is right, there is really no reason to have a build dedicated completely to tanking unless you're in an extremely high level area. In almost all PvE situations, including hard mode, you're fine with just dolyak and watch yourself. With my sentinals armor and weapons, this gives me 174 armor vs everything, and I can maintain those almost constantly. I also usually have lion's might for an emergency heal, though you have to time that right so you can continue to upkeep dolyak.
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| 05/19/07 11:56 |
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