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Spacetrooper77
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I was extremely pleased when I managed to complete my first invention set, Thunderstrike for ranged damage. I love the idea of invention origin sets, and this one was both good and was much more accessible than some of the rarer sets for ranged damage, such as devastation.
I am however somewhat annoyed by the fact that this set does not entirely enhance my abilities the way it says it does. Every single one of the enhancements in the set claims to provide bonuses to damage. Now I don't remember the exact numbers, and the servers are down for maintenance right now, but the enhancements are all in the lvl 35-38 range, and each claims to provide about 15-30% to the damage of my attack. All-together I should be getting about a 150% bonus to my damage. I am however, getting only a 98% bonus to damage.
The last enhancement I slotted was the accuracy/damage bonus. It claims to provide about a 23% boost to both stats, and the way I was slotted, it was replacing a SO accuracy enhancement. When I slotted it, I was somewhat shocked to find that it only was going to add 3% to my damage. By replacing the accuracy SO, I have actually taken a 10% cut in accuracy, while only getting an additional 3% to my damage. I decided to use it anyway, because I wanted the set bonus. I figure I can always go back to SO enhancements, so why not try it out when I have already created the enhancment.
It seems that even though each enhancement in the set is different, that the game still limits the maximum bonus I can recieve for my damage below 100%. I know that in the earlier issues that it was unwise to use beyond 3 enhancements of any particular type because the efficiency went down beyond that. I am just frustrated that this seems to apply to bonuses from invention origin enhancements, when I thought it wouldn't.
So anyway the ultimate point of this whole story is that I guess you should watch out about just how much of a bonus you will be getting. I wonder if anybody else is seeing similar results from their enhancements and whether or not they were expecting it as well. I know that some of the lvl 50 invention origin enhancements supposedly provide huge bonuses to your stats, but if this limiting function is still in effect, would you really be any better off than with a lower level set? I just wonder what you all think of this.
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| 05/24/07 04:33 |
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BishopDon
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Well, hate to tell ya but, when ED came out, that limited the cap to all enhancements. IOs are no different than any other enhancement. The more you slot, the lesser the value is going to be for each one added, especially anything past 3 of the same type.
This was the grand design from the beginning, and now they can do so. The one thing you have to remember is that the IOs provide double enhancements, so if one is maxed the other one, for the most part, may not be. Now, i'm not one to overshadow anything, however, I would think that any addition, percentage wise, would be welcome.
However, with the IO sets, the biggest bang that you're looking for is the extra bonuses that provide for you. I really enjoy having extra Regen or Acc to all attacks or extra Recharge to all attacks. These are the biggest focus of the IO sets and what they provide and those are what i look at when considering what "IO set" to select.
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| 05/24/07 07:19 |
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RonJ73
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http://cityofheroes.gameamp.com/forum/showTopic/15694.php
That thread, over on the CoH side, should answer SOME questions. It was written pre-IO, but it explains a little. Basically, when specific enhancements get to a certain point, they become less effective. The "sweet spot" for most of them is close to 100%. The extra kick you're getting out of them being 6 slotted is the IO set bonuses, not the "regular" percentage amount.
It's frustrating, but that's what happened when "Issue 6 - Enhancement Nerfication" happened.
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| 05/24/07 07:22 |
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midnight guard
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What. *points at Ron* Why is he here, why is he back? Where did he come from? WHAT DOES HE WANT?!?!
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| 05/24/07 08:18 |
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Hellmeister
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Essentially the limit is 100%, if you add on more damage IO/SO's then it reverses it, like snakes and ladders. If you need a 2 to win and you role a 5, you go forward to but then back 3
Basically 100 is you limit
However for some other enhancements, such as knockback 80% is your limit which is 2 IO/SO's any more then that and again you start to loose the effect
Im pretty sure the ones that are less then 100 are
knockback (i know) at 80
Interupt (the one that lessens your chance of being interrupted while sniping ect) 80
and there is one more, i think at just 60
Ill look into it, maybe if i can find the time ill put up a guide at some point
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| 05/24/07 08:22 |
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bigspeer
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| QUOTE | | It seems that even though each enhancement in the set is different, that the game still limits the maximum bonus I can recieve for my damage below 100%. I know that in the earlier issues that it was unwise to use beyond 3 enhancements of any particular type because the efficiency went down beyond that. I am just frustrated that this seems to apply to bonuses from invention origin enhancements, when I thought it wouldn't. |
Although your powers are only being enhanced close to 100%, your set boni are not being limited.
The thing about IO sets are that you need all 4,5 or 6 IOs from the set to get close to the max level of enhancibility.
Lets take the Doctored Wounds healing IO Set:
End/Heal
End/Rechg
Heal/Rechg
Heal
Rechg
Heal/End/Rechg
Notice that to slot all these enhancements in there would be equilivant to slotting 11 slots in any heal power. But the IOs that do more than one function have a slightly less effectiveness than an normal SO for the same single function.
The developers want people to use the entire set, so to get close to the maximum level of enhancibility, you need all the IOs to get there.
The major benefit of using the IOs are the bonuses, which come into play the more IOs from a set you use. Going back to the Doctored Wounds set, I get a -fear duration, +fire/cold resistance, all my healing powers increase by 4%, +5% recharge on all powers and a toxic/psy resist.
Now, these bonuses can stack from multiple sets up to 5 times. So if you have 5 sets that offer a bonus to +recharge, you will get a nice little bonus to all recharges. But once you add a 6th bonus to recharge, you do not get that bonus anymore.
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| 05/24/07 09:25 |
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VincentGX
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That answers a few questions of my own about IOs.
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| 05/24/07 10:11 |
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BishopDon
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IOs are indeed beautiful things. You just have to plan very carefully before selecting which ones you'll actually be using.
You need to look at things like:
Set bonuses:
which set provides a bonus for what and how many total enhancements are required
when/where does the recipes for these enhancements drop. Do the majority of the IOs come from regular mission drops or do you have to a SF or Trial to get some
did you really plan on 4-6 slotting a particular power, if not, then probably would need to reconsider what IO set that you select for it
Level Caps:
although IOs don't expire or wear out, if you exemplar down, below their listed level, you will lose the bonuses that they provide for you. And we all know in a fight, any advantage we can get is helpful.
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| 05/24/07 10:22 |
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Spacetrooper77
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So apparently, certain IO sets are actually better to get at lower levels. 1) because you loose the set bonuses if you malafactor or are exemplared below their level and 2) because the total bonus is limited to maximize near 100%, the seemingly incredible bonuses for the really high levels aren't actually so great.
In the damage department, the thunderstrike set is actually much better to have at lower levels than at higher levels, because at higher levels you aren't actually getting much for that higher bonus other than the set bonus anyway.
I guess we can all save a bit of cash by carefully monitoring just what the bonuses will actually be for particular sets, rather than just going for the ones with the huge numbers. If you plan it out, you are better off choosing the lower leveled enhancement sets in certain situations.
This also allows for much more diversification of enhancement at the really high levels (when using the standard IO enhancements anyway), because you can very nearly reach that maximum 100% in an ability with only 2 IO enhancements rather than the 3 SO enhancements that would otherwise be required.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 05/24/07 13:59 |
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BishopDon
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| QUOTE | So apparently, certain IO sets are actually better to get at lower levels. 1) because you loose the set bonuses if you malafactor or are exemplared below their level and 2) because the total bonus is limited to maximize near 100%, the seemingly incredible bonuses for the really high levels aren't actually so great.
In the damage department, the thunderstrike set is actually much better to have at lower levels than at higher levels, because at higher levels you aren't actually getting much for that higher bonus other than the set bonus anyway.
I guess we can all save a bit of cash by carefully monitoring just what the bonuses will actually be for particular sets, rather than just going for the ones with the huge numbers. If you plan it out, you are better off choosing the lower leveled enhancement sets in certain situations.
This also allows for much more diversification of enhancement at the really high levels (when using the standard IO enhancements anyway), because you can very nearly reach that maximum 100% in an ability with only 2 IO enhancements rather than the 3 SO enhancements that would otherwise be required. |
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!
This is correct! IOs make you do more thinking than an SO. Because, like stated, it's not just the % increase you're looking at, it's also the added bonus that you gain from 2+ IOs. Just grabbing an IO set just because you have it, is not the wise thing to do. Check out all the IO sets, see which one offers what you're looking for, including the bonus, and make your decisions there.
In my trials of playing with IOs, i've made some unwise decisions and have to make some changes here and there, but now that I have a handle on it, I should be a little better at the decision making process.
With this knowledge, my young apprentice, go and cause much Mayhem throughout the Rogue Isles.
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| 05/25/07 10:57 |
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Electro
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| QUOTE | | Now, these bonuses can stack from multiple sets up to 5 times. So if you have 5 sets that offer a bonus to +recharge, you will get a nice little bonus to all recharges. But once you add a 6th bonus to recharge, you do not get that bonus anymore. |
Actually, I think that is not technically true. If I am understanding things correctly, you can stack the same bonus of the same % up to 5 times. So if you have a bonus to accuracy of 7% and 9%, you could stack up to 4 more each of 7%'s and 9%'s.
It is definitely a good idea to do some planning. Set bonuses can be key, and you do not necessarily need to use all of the enhancements in a set to get the bonuses you want. For instance, a lot of the accuracy bonuses kick in at 4 or 5 slots. Same with recharge bonuses. Also, be aware that a lot of the bonuses you might want come from slotting things you wouldn't normally slot, like confuse or invisability. You can certainly use the sets up to the point where you get the bonus you want, then slot regular enhancements if you so desire.
Set bonuses apply over and above the limitations imparted by ED. With careful planning, you should be able to use set bonuses to give you such an increase to accuracy that you can eliminate accuracy enhancements altogether, or get such an increase to recharge that you can come extremely close to perma-hasten.
Back to the OP's question about Thunderstrike, the limitations of ED still apply and you will lose out on some of the benefits of the enhancement because of it. Running the numbers, you are basically losing the benefit of the damage aspect of one of the tri-attribute enhancers, capping out around 100%, and the acc, end, and rchg all add up to about 60%. What you could do is just 4-slot it to get the nice accuracy bonus (7%) and either forget about the last 2 slots, or slot regular enhancies in there to make up for whatever you are lacking.
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| 05/25/07 11:33 |
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El Diablo Boy
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I also have a question about IO's....it is: i have an IO called detonation that raises the attk and range of a power so why cant i put that on any of my ranged powers?
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| 05/25/07 13:21 |
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BishopDon
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| QUOTE | | I also have a question about IO's....it is: i have an IO called detonation that raises the attk and range of a power so why cant i put that on any of my ranged powers? |
You would actually have to look at the deion of the power and see exactly what it is enhancing. Detonation, may not be for Ranged attacks. It could be for PBAOE or AOE attacks only.
Let me check some information and i'll post later what type of powers Detonation enhances.
Addition: As I suspected, Detonation is only good for Targeted AOE powers. If you look at the IO or Recipe, it will clearly state what type of power it will enhance. And if you look at your power selections, they now list exactly what category they are as well, so there should be no confusion as to what IOs will work with them.
With IOs you have to look very carefully before you attempt to slot them. Make sure they are a perfect match for the power you want to put them in.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 05/25/07 13:25 |
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Madphinger
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Just a couple things to add here.
The cap for damage/accuracy/recharge/etc is not 100%. ED kicks in for Schedule A enhancements at 70%, which means that the 3rd SO is reduced slightly in effectiveness while the 4th is reduced severely.
Schedule B enhancements (resistance/defense/tohit/etc)
see a reduction starting at 40%.
All that means is you get the full value for the first 2 SO enhancements you slot with the 3rd being reduced slightly and the 4th, 5th and 6th are reduced severely.
Also, keep in mind that the numeric value (regardless of what set they come from) is what matters for purposes of stacking when it comes to IOs.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 05/25/07 15:16 |
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El Diablo Boy
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ok thank you bishop...next time before i buy one ill check
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| 05/26/07 12:16 |
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Spacetrooper77
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Thanks so much for all your help. Here are two more observations/ideas I have made about those enigmas known as IO's:
1) None of the healing sets provide any bonus to accuracy. I wonder if the devs messed up on this one, and they are planning on adding one later, or if it was their original intention to do this. What this means is that the targeted heals in things like the dark miasma and kinetics secondaries will never be most effective with a completed healing set enhancing them. You will always have to leave one or two slots for dumb old accuracy enhancements. I know I have my DM heal triple slotted with SO enhancements, and I still miss sometimes when I really don't want to.
2) Enhancements that always provide the same bonus, such as the 20% chance for leathal damage for example, should always be obtained at the lowest possible level. This is because the set bonuses from having that enhanement are lost below the enhancement's level. Since the degree of the bonus doesn't increase with level, as does many of the other enhancements, there is utterly no point to grabbing a really high level enhancement of this type. This makes the costs at the market rather counter-intuitive, because the most desirable should be actually the cheapest, and lowest level.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 05/26/07 14:49 |
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