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swissarmy68
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So yesterday I was jumping through Crey's Folly, when I happen upon Jurassik. I stopped and watched him for a few moments then it occurred to me. people don't care to much about the giant monsters unless they need the badge.
I just was wondering if the XP was better for taking down a GM, would more people be trying. I say it is fun have tons of heroes around and firing at a common threat.
I'm thinking that if the XP was better, it might be more of an event. granted, then I guess you would get the campers, but I was thinking not a huge amount, but a nice amount.
I think the last time I help take one down I got maybe 50 XP. That is not exact, but it was close. I remember thinking "All that and that was all I got?"
It is like the Christmas Story with Ralphie. He sends away for the secret decoder ring from Little Orphan Annie and when he finally gets it and decodes his first message from Annie herself, it says "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine".
"A crummy commercial"
Hopefully the Rikti invasion brings heroes back together to fight in large numbers.
This is all said with the understanding that I am not a high enough level to fight Hami yet.
Any thoughts?
Swiss
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| 06/25/07 08:02 |
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Solaronn
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | So yesterday I was jumping through Crey's Folly, when I happen upon Jurassik. I stopped and watched him for a few moments then it occurred to me. people don't care to much about the giant monsters unless they need the badge.
I just was wondering if the XP was better for taking down a GM, would more people be trying. I say it is fun have tons of heroes around and firing at a common threat.
I'm thinking that if the XP was better, it might be more of an event. granted, then I guess you would get the campers, but I was thinking not a huge amount, but a nice amount.
I think the last time I help take one down I got maybe 50 XP. That is not exact, but it was close. I remember thinking "All that and that was all I got?"
It is like the Christmas Story with Ralphie. He sends away for the secret decoder ring from Little Orphan Annie and when he finally gets it and decodes his first message from Annie herself, it says "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine".
"A crummy commercial"
Hopefully the Rikti invasion brings heroes back together to fight in large numbers.
This is all said with the understanding that I am not a high enough level to fight Hami yet.
Any thoughts?
Swiss |
My thoughts with the Giant monsters is this: They are too tough to take down, require FAR too many heroes to take them down, and the payoff is just way too inadequate. Plus, hunting for them is just ridiculous. The repeated high level debt when killed while trying to take them down make them just another thing in the game to ignore AFAIC. That being said, I enjoy taking down the Kronos Titan very much. But that is part of a storyline.
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| 06/25/07 08:35 |
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RonJ73
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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You can blame the Winter Event of 2004/2005 for the giant monsters not being "worth it".
During the Winter Event, aka the "LF WL TEAM!!11!" Event, giant monsters were spawning all over the place. Huge teams would rush to take them down, earning THOUSANDS of experience points per kill. Newbies were literally getting a level, sometimes two levels PER KILL. Yes, per kill. As you got into your teens, it would take a few kills to get a level. People were getting from 1-20 in a matter of hours.
Then came the dreaded patch which dropped the experience for giant monsters significantly...it's also the same one that took away the "levels" for giant monsters.
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| 06/25/07 08:48 |
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Sturmwolf
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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It's pretty sad, but i must admit that i only hunt GMs to get the badge.
Nothing else.
And any non-badger ignores the GMs.
Sad thing...
i spotted 2 or even 3 Luscas at once in IP.
Same with Paladin...2 or 3 Paladins marching thru Kings Row.
Because it isn't worth anything to take them down.
I think it's pretty hard to balance it between the "not worth" part and the "camper-problem".
*shrug*
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| 06/25/07 09:04 |
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Solaronn
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | You can blame the Winter Event of 2004/2005 for the giant monsters not being "worth it".
During the Winter Event, aka the "LF WL TEAM!!11!" Event, giant monsters were spawning all over the place. Huge teams would rush to take them down, earning THOUSANDS of experience points per kill. Newbies were literally getting a level, sometimes two levels PER KILL. Yes, per kill. As you got into your teens, it would take a few kills to get a level. People were getting from 1-20 in a matter of hours.
Then came the dreaded patch which dropped the experience for giant monsters significantly...it's also the same one that took away the "levels" for giant monsters. |
I remember it well. Many of my toons leveled during that period. One of my comntrollers (Actually my first one) went from 8-22 in no time one sunday. What they should have done was fix that so that the XP was not THAT extreme, but no where near as ridiculously low as it is now. Somewhere in between. Because right now you have monsters roaming literally for days before teams big enough can gather to take them down
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| 06/25/07 09:05 |
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RonJ73
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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Right now, they could remove the code that makes Giant Monsters give lousy experience, simply because the option to take them down for power leveling simply isn't there. Either that or scale the experience reward based on the level of the people involved in the take down.
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| 06/25/07 10:45 |
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Solaronn
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | Right now, they could remove the code that makes Giant Monsters give lousy experience, simply because the option to take them down for power leveling simply isn't there. Either that or scale the experience reward based on the level of the people involved in the take down. |
Yeah I think they should lower the level of difficulty down somewhat too. Tehre's not always 20+ people floating around on a given server who want to bothered with this either. A team of 8 should be able to do this.
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| 06/25/07 11:02 |
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Thundarpants
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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Don't the GMs have the possibility of dropping rare recipies or salvage now? Other than for Badge Junkie reasons they don't offer much for the ammount of effort to take them down. Especially since it takes more than one team to take down most, and even the badge reward only goes to the team that did the most damage.
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| 06/25/07 11:06 |
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Phedre_D
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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I kinda like to disagree. The giant monsters are special, and it should take a special effort to take them down. If a regular 8 person team can do it it lost its purpose.
However, I agree that as it is now they are kind of meaningless. Nobody is bothered with them anymore. I think a really nice xp bonus would make it interesting again. And they should be really scarce. That way they don't become PL targets, but once again the really cool special fights you have once a week or so.
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| 06/25/07 11:07 |
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Solaronn
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | I kinda like to disagree. The giant monsters are special, and it should take a special effort to take them down. If a regular 8 person team can do it it lost its purpose.
However, I agree that as it is now they are kind of meaningless. Nobody is bothered with them anymore. I think a really nice xp bonus would make it interesting again. And they should be really scarce. That way they don't become PL targets, but once again the really cool special fights you have once a week or so. |
To require 20+ people to take down one Monster, WITH outdoor Debt (Doubled from indoor) is ridiculous, I have to say that these guys are just meaningless now, and really not worth the effort, and possible debt to take down, at least that's my opinion. Drop teh difficulty down to something that makes sense, up the XP, WAY up, and they becoome something worth doing. Otherwise they might as well do away with them., Also, I think they should have given us a giant lizard godzilla-like thing rampaging in some zone or another.
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| 06/25/07 11:28 |
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Thundarpants
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | Also, I think they should have given us a giant lizard godzilla-like thing rampaging in some zone or another.
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That would be freakin awesome!
They need to put some special drops or something to make people want to hit them, but not a PL tool like mentioned. We all know that they are debt machines in the open zones. They should at least wipe your debt upon completion, and drop some rare salvage or recipies. The latter might get added in as the crafting continues to develop.
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| 06/25/07 11:34 |
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Solaronn
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | Also, I think they should have given us a giant lizard godzilla-like thing rampaging in some zone or another.
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That would be freakin awesome!
They need to put some special drops or something to make people want to hit them, but not a PL tool like mentioned. We all know that they are debt machines in the open zones. They should at least wipe your debt upon completion, and drop some rare salvage or recipies. The latter might get added in as the crafting continues to develop. |
yeah dropping the debt when done with them would make them worthwhile. To me a lot of this stuff should be a no brainer for these guys, but they can;t see the forest for the trees. No giant lizard? But instead we get a freakin' squid??? C'mon...
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| 06/25/07 11:36 |
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Warron Peace
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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Few things to add:
First of all, the Winter event didn't occur in 2005 because of the previous disaster. I'm about 99% sure of this.
Secondly, since 2004 and the GM change, many other things have changed that make it worthless to fight GMs. First of all, they lowered the XP and made GMs tougher to beat. Then ED happened. With the benefit of 6slotted powers lost, it was no longer possible for your average team of 8 to go in and stomp the GM. This stomping, as much as the massive XP reward, is what made the Powerleveling possible. ED made it nigh impossible to do this. As did the increased def/res of GMs, and the loss of a static level. They made GMs a very nice challenge. However, the "quick fix" they implemented to stop the powerleveling, lowering the xp reward, was never reversed, even though the longer term fixes combined with ED prevent the situation from arising again.
Solutions? One possibility is to bring the difficulty back down. I'm against this, because if you make it possible for 8 or less players to take down a GM, you basically have a glorified AV on your hands. The other possibility is to increase the reward, through some combination of Salvage, Recipes, Experience, and Influence/Infamy/Prestige. I am much more in favor of this option, since it makes more sense flavor-wise. "Joe Hero helps take down the Giant Octopus threatening Independence Port? Amazing!" (Influence) "We should consider raising his security level, because he was capable of such a feat!" (Experience) "I saw he took a piece of one of the Tentacles with him!" (Salvage) "I wonder if he got any ideas for some new gear from that fight?" (Recipes)
The threat of powerleveling from GMs has been so thoroughly squashed that it has made the prospect of fighting a GM in the first place undesireable. I can only hope they drop a few of the "fixes" so that someday you'll see massive groups of heroes gathering together to take down the Monstrous threats the City I love faces everyday.
Warron Peace
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| 06/25/07 17:13 |
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giles202
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | Few things to add:
First of all, the Winter event didn't occur in 2005 because of the previous disaster. I'm about 99% sure of this.
Secondly, since 2004 and the GM change, many other things have changed that make it worthless to fight GMs. First of all, they lowered the XP and made GMs tougher to beat. Then ED happened. With the benefit of 6slotted powers lost, it was no longer possible for your average team of 8 to go in and stomp the GM. This stomping, as much as the massive XP reward, is what made the Powerleveling possible. ED made it nigh impossible to do this. As did the increased def/res of GMs, and the loss of a static level. They made GMs a very nice challenge. However, the "quick fix" they implemented to stop the powerleveling, lowering the xp reward, was never reversed, even though the longer term fixes combined with ED prevent the situation from arising again.
Solutions? One possibility is to bring the difficulty back down. I'm against this, because if you make it possible for 8 or less players to take down a GM, you basically have a glorified AV on your hands. The other possibility is to increase the reward, through some combination of Salvage, Recipes, Experience, and Influence/Infamy/Prestige. I am much more in favor of this option, since it makes more sense flavor-wise. "Joe Hero helps take down the Giant Octopus threatening Independence Port? Amazing!" (Influence) "We should consider raising his security level, because he was capable of such a feat!" (Experience) "I saw he took a piece of one of the Tentacles with him!" (Salvage) "I wonder if he got any ideas for some new gear from that fight?" (Recipes)
The threat of powerleveling from GMs has been so thoroughly squashed that it has made the prospect of fighting a GM in the first place undesireable. I can only hope they drop a few of the "fixes" so that someday you'll see massive groups of heroes gathering together to take down the Monstrous threats the City I love faces everyday.
Warron Peace |
You pretty much hit all the points (and more) that i was gonna say, so i'll just say, I agree with Warron.
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| 06/25/07 19:50 |
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Cornhollio30
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | They need to put some special drops or something to make people want to hit them, but not a PL tool like mentioned. We all know that they are debt machines in the open zones. They should at least wipe your debt upon completion, and drop some rare salvage or recipies. The latter might get added in as the crafting continues to develop. |
I agree, they really should have some rare salvage or recipe drops associated with the GM’s That would spark some more interest in them (though it might also lead to farming). Perhaps another idea could be to create some sort of GM accolade and ability for helping to defeat all the GM’s. Nothing to powerful, but something desirable enough that even non-badgehunters would want to have.
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| 06/25/07 21:12 |
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Warron Peace
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | They need to put some special drops or something to make people want to hit them, but not a PL tool like mentioned. We all know that they are debt machines in the open zones. They should at least wipe your debt upon completion, and drop some rare salvage or recipies. The latter might get added in as the crafting continues to develop. |
I agree, they really should have some rare salvage or recipe drops associated with the GM’s That would spark some more interest in them (though it might also lead to farming). Perhaps another idea could be to create some sort of GM accolade and ability for helping to defeat all the GM’s. Nothing to powerful, but something desirable enough that even non-badgehunters would want to have. |
I think the accolade should be put in, as well as upping the reward as I mentioned earlier. They tacked an accolade onto the mainstream task forces and now they get alot more activity, specifically because of said accolade being so valuable (10% HP, if I recall correctly). Given the difficulty and number of GMs, and the fact that you need much more than a team of 8 or less, the Accolade should be rather strong. I wouldn't mind seeing an inherent bonus of +regen and/or +recovery. There are some builds where even Stamina just isn't enough...
As for recipe/salvage drops, I don't think that'd be a good idea. Task Forces of all kinds guarantee a random Rare Recipe, and as a result, poor Katie Hannon is being Farmed repeatedly on a regular basis, now that we know that the first mission can be failed without failing the TF. Again, given the difficulty and number of ppl required, it wouldn't be a *huge* issue, but some of the more active SG/VGs out there who have the numbers to take on GMs without outside intervention can and probably would take to farming various GMs they deem as "easy" (read: probably not Lusca). If anything along these lines, I'd suggest it be a guarantee that you'll get *a* recipe, with say a 70% chance at it being uncommon, 25% chance at a rare, and 5% chance at common. The same could be done with salvage. I'd also add in that you'd have to wait a certain amount of time (for such a case, 8-12 hours is fair, given the potential amount of recipes/salvage being handed out each time a GM is defeated).
W.P.
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| 06/25/07 21:38 |
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G-pa Wisdom
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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Hah I remember the winter lord powerlevels!
good times.
And you don't need more than a team of 8 heroes to take down an av,gm,eb, whatever. Just pick the right toons.
heh they just aren't worth our time
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| 06/25/07 22:47 |
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LordXenophon
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | They should at least wipe your debt upon completion... |
There's a reward the devs might consider, if we push them hard enough. Instead of getting XP, you simply have all your debt forgiven. People would definately take them down for that, but powerleveling on them just wouldn't be possible.
        
          
          
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| 06/26/07 01:55 |
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Sturmwolf
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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An accolade for the GMs would be a good idea.
You need Jack and Eochai for an accolade and you ALWAYS find teams to hunt them.
But try that with some other GM like Jurrasik and you don't find anybody willing to take him down.
Espacially because he is in a zone not frequently visited by players.
Or even worth...NO ONE goes for Paladin.
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| 06/26/07 05:41 |
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Warron Peace
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | NO ONE goes for Paladin. |
The reason for this is simple. The badge for the Paladin Event is awarded to those who *prevent* his construction, not for defeating him once he's been constructed. Without any semblance a real reward, fighting him is absolutely pointless, other than any fun you may have doing it.
How to fix that? Besides the rewards mentioned previously, the devs could add a separate badge to the game to be awarded upon defeat of Paladin. This would get badge-hunters out there gathering to kill him.
Personally, I'd like to see more information available about how to recognize when he's being built. I'd love it if they would set up an announcement system, like an air raid signal, to let ppl in the zones know that a special zone event is about to occur. Then players could spread the information via various Monster/Badge channels, and we could hopefully see a larger turnout of players to take part in these events.
W.P.
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| 06/26/07 10:15 |
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White Hot Flash
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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What if they tied more of the GM's to story arcs, like the Chronos Titan, or Babbage? They would be more predictable to spawn (you'd be able to call for help before they show up and have it in the zone waiting). Make their regen and HP a tiny bit less, so one or two teams can take them, but still leave it a challenge, and then have some kind of payoff, like a choice between 3 rare recipies or something, if you already have the badge associated for killing it. That way, everyone would have incentive to come help, and it wouldn't matter whether you were on the team that spawned the monster, or were on the team that did the most damage. Everyone would get something.
I personally like fighting the larger monsters, even if they don't give much of a reward right now. There is usually at least a few people who haven't fought them yet around, and I wish there were more large-scale encounters in the game like that.
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| 06/26/07 10:46 |
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bigspeer
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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There was a Winter Event in '05. That was my first month of playing and I remember getting demolished by boxes with snowmen in them and trying to avoid any and all boxes. I don't think there were Winterlords though.
I also remember St. Nick next to a helicopter in AP sending you to an arachnos map for a special mission to earn a santa hat and free costume change.
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| 06/26/07 10:57 |
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Sturmwolf
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | Make their regen and HP a tiny bit less, so one or two teams can take them, but still leave it a challenge, ... |
The big problem is their special regenpower.
Without a hero with a -regen power, you can buttonmash for hours on that beastie, but as soon as some Rad-Def joins in, the thing goes down in seconds.
That's downright ridiculous.
It spoils the fun, if you need a "perfect team" to take a GM down.
I heard it pretty often:"Nah, we can't go for some GM...we don't have a Rad."
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| 06/26/07 11:12 |
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Thundarpants
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | Make their regen and HP a tiny bit less, so one or two teams can take them, but still leave it a challenge, ... |
The big problem is their special regenpower.
Without a hero with a -regen power, you can buttonmash for hours on that beastie, but as soon as some Rad-Def joins in, the thing goes down in seconds.
That's downright ridiculous.
It spoils the fun, if you need a "perfect team" to take a GM down.
I heard it pretty often:"Nah, we can't go for some GM...we don't have a Rad." |
If that group had a Kinetics player they can still get a -regen applied. I believe that there are also some powers in the dark sets that also offer -regen.
I agree, two balanced 8 player teams should be able to take down all of them, or the reward system needs to be changed for them so that all heroes involved in their demise are rewarded.
World of Warcraft
Don't hate Raza because she's beautiful......
Because she's not......
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| 06/26/07 11:38 |
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Warron Peace
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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There is a somewhat large variety of -regen powers out there. Why Rad gets so much attention is not just -regen (which is only so-so, compared to some others that can stack) its the defense, tohit, damage, and resistence debuffs in Rad that are autohit. Between lowering regen rate, making the foe take more damage, and lessening the incoming damage, not to mention improving the players damage, end recovery, and recharge, you have a strong set. Other sets can do parts of what it does and better more often than not (sonic is better at -res, dark at -tohit, kin better at boosting damage, end, and recharge, for example) you get the full package out of Rad.
Once upon a time I came across a post of all the powers with a -regen component to them. I'll have to see if I can find it. If I do, you'll see it. :)
my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.
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| 06/26/07 14:45 |
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Sturmwolf
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE |
If that group had a Kinetics player they can still get a -regen applied. I believe that there are also some powers in the dark sets that also offer -regen.
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Really?
Which powers exactly?
I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc
(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)
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| 06/26/07 15:16 |
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Thundarpants
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE |
If that group had a Kinetics player they can still get a -regen applied. I believe that there are also some powers in the dark sets that also offer -regen.
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Really?
Which powers exactly? |
Transfusion from kinetics puts a -regen debuff on when used, and in most GM fights I'm spamming it on the monster. We'd need some dark power players to identify the others, Im not 100% sure which powers they use. But like Warron pointed out, the Rad set adds so much more to the effort than just the -regen.
I think the Dark Scrappers apply -regen in one of their life draining attacks in the primary.
World of Warcraft
Don't hate Raza because she's beautiful......
Because she's not......
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| 06/26/07 15:39 |
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Sturmwolf
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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Found it.
http://paragonwiki.com/Hit_Point_Regeneration_Debuff_Powers
mmmh...but if you read the powerdeion nothing is mentioned
=/
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc
(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)
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| 06/26/07 16:17 |
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Hemlut
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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The GM's are a pain without a good reward!
Maybe good XP for the 1st time you take a GM down but much less once you have the badge.
Having other Supers turning up to help is good for morale after you faceplant for the X time and they should get something for jumping in to help.
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| 06/27/07 04:02 |
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Sturmwolf
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| RE: Giant Monster question |
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Why does the edit not function?
It should be read "powerdeion"!
.:edit:.
What the f*ck???
deion??
d e s c r i p t i o n
Can't change it....*weird*
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc
(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)
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| 06/27/07 05:21 |
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