GameAmp: Need some advice on tanks

Forum >> Archetype Discussions >> Tanker >> Need some advice on tanks

User

Message

Codexia

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

Need some advice on tanks

Yea, I ask a lot of stuff about my duo group with my brother I know, but were hammering out a lot of details :P

I plan on using Empathy (tried Kinetics and honestly didn't have any fun with it) and at the moment he was using a Broad/Regen Scrapper. He is considering switching to a tank to become even more indestructable with his own personal healbot (and taunting to keep stuff off me) and was wondering what you think the best tanks are and why?

I was suggesting him to go Invu since I could more than likely keep him alive through just about anything with the damage he took, but he wanted me to pop on here and ask around since he has no GA account at the moment. Our goal is basicaly to be able to do Duo any AV and we have no experience with end-game, so no clue how the various builds work at the end.

Is the Regen scrapper more survivable than the tanks? Or is the tank going to make my healing job even easier?

Thanks in advance for the help, I don't know what I would do without this site :P Well, I do know actually...stupid things like skipping Heal Aura :) hehe, glad to know that little mistake of mine is fixed.

[edit] Also, although this may not effect which secondary I choose, which is the most useful for whichever tank you recomend? Dark reduces accuracy, psychic is attack speed, etc etc. They all have uses but picking the most useful overall is hard, at least to me.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

09/05/07 18:51

giles202

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 11
Joined: 05/31/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

With regen, healing isnt much of a problem, aggro on the other hand will cause ya a bit of turmoil.
If he wants to play a tank, i suggest fire/fire to team with your emp. Fire tank has great defensives and is the most offensive of the tankers defensive sets. It can be a little end heavy at times but mixed with ra's and ab it's better than most sets.

If, however, you guys were to handle mobs one target at a time, i would suggest BS/Regen and sticking with it.

AV's will be very difficult to duo. If AV's are your main goal go with Invuln/fire, Invuln/SS or Stone/SS.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

This is Paramore:

If you don't know them, why are you reading this?

09/05/07 18:56

Chuck Bronco

Posts: 0
Joined: 06/20/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Tanks are great, I would recommend that your brother try out a few sets. Animations are a big part of the draw for me lately, they are all so different.

I have had pretty good luck with Fire/Ice (Chuck is currently at 48 and lovin life), Ice/Ice, and Stone/Battle Axe.

Each levels are going to offer different challenges. So IMO it all depends on yall's playing style.

A little tanker advice I can offer is use your environment. i.e. corners and trees, anything to break the Line Of Sight (LOS). This will gather them up on him and not you. The tanker energy secondary will be nice to put a beat down on them.

If your sticking with Emp you wont have to heal as much with a tank, but the RAs will be invaluable no matter the sets he takes.

I am partial to the Ice secondary, for the ice patch and slowing down the incoming DPS.

If he goes with a tank it will allow you a bit more freedom to search into your secondary attacks.

and a little cred for you for stirring up the posts lately. Asking these sorts of questions always brings out a lot of great replies for the masses to absorb. I know I have learned a lot from them.

Tank'ns my Bidness and Bidness is GOOD!

09/05/07 19:39

Codexia

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Thanks for the replies and advice, and the rating. And yea, I do agree. A lot of the info posts on this site seemed to be from well over a year ago so a lot of it was outdated, hence why I've had to post so many things asking for help. If my being lost is helping people, even better :P

The main reason I want Empathy isn't actually for the heals (although I love them) it's actually for the buffs. I know most people love Kinetics buffs but I see the defensive benefits of Empathy to far outweigh a damage bonus (not to mention I dislike playing Kinetics). Standing next to his regen scrapper with SO's his Health Regen goes over 2500% so healing isn't even really needed in the first place. Of course, I'm in range of AoE's sometimes but...I don't generally die in one shot as a general rule.

I'm still very unsure about secondaries. I don't generally use attacks very often so that I can specificaly focus on healing, although I love spamming my Sniper Attack after he gets 1-2 hits in. I know you know what they are, but since were now stockpiling info I'll stick it up anyway.

Dark: Accuracy reduction
Psi: Recharge reduction
Sonic: Resistance reduction (lacks sniper shot)
Archery: Damage
Electric: Endurange drain
Energy: Knockback
Radiation: Defense reduction

Personally I prefer Dark, Psi or Radiation. While I do think Sonic is the most useful it lacks a sniper attack and I'm also not all that fond of character shouting at the enemies. The problem is I'm not sure whether reducing accuracy, defense or recharge is the most useful. I could definately use some advice on this, especialy based on which types of tanks (or his regen scrapper) he is using.

And of course, for Duo'ing AVs, you think Inv is the best? The reason I ask is that his original character (Dark/Regen from a loooong time ago) was able to solo almost any AV. I know that Regen got a bit of a rebalance so we were wondering how effective it still is. Broad/Regen can still solo places most people shouldn't be from what I've seen, but will it stand up to AV's as well as a tank? Tanks lack the ability to recharge their own HP as well as a regen scrapper but I'll also be healing of course.

Wow, that was a bit of a ramble, lol. I'll just try to leave it there I suppose as which character you think stands up the best against an AV with a healer as backup. Also, if he takes some powers from the taunting powerpool on his scrapper would that work out?

09/05/07 20:37

Sturmwolf

Posts: 0
Joined: 02/09/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

DON'T go Empath on a TANK!
Totally worthless!
A tank can live perfectly well without an Empath at his back.
I tried it.
Me and a friend done this.
I was the tank (Inv/Ss) and the Empath (Emp/Psi) was of NO use for me.
I started to fight without my shields running, cause I needed the dmg output and relied on my "healbot" to keep me alive.
Zero synergy!
Any other Def has better de-/buffs available.

On the long run, you need something to take down the HEAVY opposition.
Just regular mobs won't be the problem.
With an Emp at his back, a Tank can fight an AV for hours and still don't make his health move!

I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc

(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)

09/05/07 21:08

Codexia

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/20/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Never really thought of that. What if he stayed with a scrapper? Does a Regen scrapper need a healer? I only ask because Empathy is my prefered defender type, so being useless doesn't sound like that much fun. He did say he can take some taunts from the powerpool if neccessary.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

09/05/07 21:22

bigspeer

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/22/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Don't get the presence pool. The two taunts aren't auto hit and you'll use unnecessary slots for Acc.

Empaths arent bad for tanks and even regen scrappers til the mid teens. After that is when they pretty much aren't needed anymore, except for the recovery aura.

If you still want to heal, take one of the other sets that has a heal in it and dip into the medicine pool.

My name is Jean Claude Van Damme and I dance for you...

09/05/07 21:25

Sturmwolf

Posts: 0
Joined: 02/09/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Again:NO!
Regen is the LAST scrapper that needs a healer.
If you want to be an Empath, make him play something that benefits from it.
Dark or Invu would benefit the most of a healer.
If he goes for a SR scrapper, you can defenitly skip heal aura, cause he just need a big junk of health every time a foes gets to hit him at all.
Why the heck do you want to stick to a bloody healer for a duo?
Pick something useful.
Try Rad/Rad...the most powerful defender ever.

09/05/07 21:34

Lightfoot27

Posts: 1
Joined: 01/16/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Im going to go ahead and second not going with empath to combo with a tank. Really, if he is going to go with a tank, I would look to do a little more dmg... dark/dark or rad/rad would be the way to go (for defenders). Really, with a fire/fire or ice/em, he should do sufficient dmg and have aggro holding capability to let you tear them apart. If it were up to me, I think I'd have him go with an ice tank, and you with a dark defender. You can essentially break the mobs down, and due to his defenses (ice is a defense set) your acc debuff will cause him to rarely get hit, negating the need for heals. Dark/dark is a very underated set. Similarily, rad has a debuff that gives -acc, I have two accounts and I'm running an ice armor tank with a rad controller... I rarely get hit and I don't even have DO's slotted yet. Think synergy... and if he goes with a regen scrapper, as odd as it sounds, you might consider a regen scrapper. Regen (with quick recovery and stamina) will pretty much require zero downtime. You could wreck the mobs and be hardly breathing... just food for thought. Also, I know you don't like kinetics, but if he were to make a stone/stone tank, with speed boost from your kinetic, he would be an invincible wrecking ball... this would be the combo to solo your AV's, or a stone/em or stone/ss as you could sap the AV and buff your tanks dmg.

Edit: After re-reading the post above me, I think a good combo for an empath would be a dark/dark scrapper. The weaknesses of the dark scrap set are the lack of knockback and endurance. Empaths can remove both of these weaknesses, so if you are set on empath, he should definitely either go dark or SR. If he's set on BS/Regen, I suggest you go either spines/regen or claws/regen. Both sets have their pluses, the AoE's for spines and the speed and distance of claws... but essentially you will both be tearing up the baddies and having fun doing it.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

BEST TEST ANSWERS EVER!
"Who was responsible for inventing the cotton gin?"
"I'm unable to divulge that information as it may compromise our agents in the field."

"What was the date of Columbus' journey to the americas?"
"I do not believe in linear time, the past and future are one, existence in the temporal sense is illusionary... this question is therefore meaningless and impossible to answer."

-Calvin and Hobbes

09/05/07 22:34

bold-lightning

Posts: 0
Joined: 04/19/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

If he wants to try a tanker out, I'd say go for fire shield/energy melee. He can be a "scranker", a tanker toughness but nearly a scrapper's output in damage. I've played stone/SS, Ice/mace and fire/em, and all have their ups and downs. Stone is practically unkillable, Ice makes for great controlling and herds, and fire is great for being tough while not having the low output of damage that tanks usually have for a while.

Virtue:
*Titan of Granite: lvl 50 Tanker*
*Neo Nebula: lvl 50 Controller*
*Cilux: lvl 50 Scrapper*
Astraeus': lvl 42 Scrapper
Griffan: lvl 45 Defender
Justice:
*Xenokrates: lvl 50 Brute*
*Kuramaru: lvl 50 MM*
Wolf Fury: lvl 40 Brute
Bullitz Krieg: lvl 45 MM
Towering Shadow: lvl 45 Bane Soldier
D'jango: lvl 34 Night Widow
Guardian:
*Titaness of Fire: lvl 50 Tank*

09/05/07 23:43

Donovan Wolf

Posts: 2
Joined: 03/03/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

As you can see here, there are alot of good opinions on what you should do, and they are all good ones.

In my own opinion, in order to duo an AV you need a char that can debuff the AV's defenses, so your melee oriented brother can tear into them. The Broadsword scrapper is a good choice for damage. Though they cant do as much as a scrapper can, however tanks are no slouches in the damage department.

Probably one of the best sets for damage is invul/energy.The founder of the sg that I am active in has a lvl 50 invul/energy tank and he loves it. Ive talked to him at length about his build and why he chose those sets. Most of the attack sets only have one rated extreme attack put into them. Ice and fire I believe have only a superior rated attack as their best that they can dish out. Energy has two extreme rated attacks that can blow away whatever they hit. Though I must say that energy I think out of the box isnt as accurate as the other attack sets, but thats where invul armor comes in. The invincibility power in the invul set has a to hit buff built into it that corrects the accuracy issue in energy. Enabling the tank to become more accurate.

As for debuffing/healing That leaves you with a few choices. There are a few sets that I like to call "can openers" as they can turn a targets defences into a legless kitten. Enabling you and your teammates to just plow through em.

The darkness set provides good defense debuffing, as well as messing with their accuracy so its hard for them to hit you back. Their heal is pretty good (need two accuracies in it to garuntee it works as it should) It also has a powerfull mass rez that will help bring your brother back from the brink, should he fall as well as anybody else that dies at the same time.

The rad is also a good choice as well. It has become more well known for its defence debuffing than I think the other sets so it's pretty popular with people . It has a good heal aura, Accelerated metabolism is great,and the rez is quite nice. Its defence debuffing is A-1 and most people who need to fight a giant monster, or an AV will often look for a rad to help them out. So if you take the rad set, get used to picking up /tells from ppl begging for help

A 3rd set I would like to suggest doesnt effect defence, but the targets damage resistance. Sonic isnt as widely known as the above two, and it doesnt come with a heal, so if you take the sonic set, dip into the healing power pool for a heal. What it does bring to the table, is nice shielding, and the almighty disruption field. This beauty is a toggle that you place on a teammate, and it debuffs the damage resistance of anything that comes into your teammates melee range. I have a lvl 25 sonic/rad defender and this power coupled with the shields that buff your own teams damage resistance, make a good combination, and makes this char pretty popular with my supergroup.

I hope this helps.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Triumph server
Big Puppy-lvl 50 super strength/energy aura brute
Silver Puppy-Lvl 50 Peacebringer
Gargoyle Icestorm-Lvl 50 ice/storm controller
Candella Midnight- lvl 50 ill/kin controller
Kyra Tangleroot-Lvl 50 Plant/Sonic Controller
Captain F Bomb-lvl 38 dark/elect defender
Porcupine X-lvl 37 spine/willpower scrapper
Nether Puppy-lvl 28 Warshade
Various others. . .altoholic maximus
Virtue
Donovan Wolf-lvl 50 Invul/axe Tank
Knights of overkill Forever!

09/06/07 09:35

dougnukem

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/21/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

QUOTE

I might as well toss my 2 cents in the barrel here. If you want to stay as an Empath, his best bet is to stick with a scrapper. Yes, tanks can put out some pretty good damage, but like's been said, they don't really need a pocket emp, especially when mainly dealing with duo spawns. As far as scrappers are concerned, there are a couple of choices that can benefit from Empaths. Both BS and Katana are great primaries that cover good ST attacks, with a couple of AoEs. Secondary wise, I would go with Dark Armor, Invul, or even SR to a lesser extent, and here's why. DA does alot better than people give it credit for. It's end use can start shooting up when you pick some of the nice utility auras like Death Shroud, Cloak of Fear, and Oppressive Gloom. Having an Empath with Rec Aura can ease the pain of this. The combination of Fortitude and divine avalanche/parry (if you go BS or Kat), will make him almost unhittable. Also, the auras really help keep the focus on him and not you with aggro and even more damage mitigation. Having heals also helps through the earlier levels for DA, since it's resistances are a little lower, but spread more evenly across the board.

The nice thing about this duo is it's ability to transform as you progress. The things that an Empath can do early on will not be as needed later for DA, and you can look at focusing on things that increase your fun factor. I would even suggest going with Kinetics instead of Empath to allow yourself some buffs that will make for more fun later on. And lets face it, speed boost is loved by all, especially end heavy combos like BS/DA.

Just my thoughts. :)

Official Global Heroics Boozer
Lifetime Member of the National Potstirrer Inc.
*I am an AoE addict! *

09/06/07 10:23

Sturmwolf

Posts: 0
Joined: 02/09/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

QUOTE

And lets face it, speed boost is loved by all,

Nope...I still hate it.
=P
And he said somewhere that he don't like Kinetics.
;o)

09/06/07 10:26

dougnukem

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/21/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

QUOTE

And lets face it, speed boost is loved by all,

Nope...I still hate it.
=P
And he said somewhere that he don't like Kinetics.
;o)

Blasphemy!! Hate SB? I think a small child was just sacrificed somewhere in the world. :D

Official Global Heroics Boozer
Lifetime Member of the National Potstirrer Inc.
*I am an AoE addict! *

09/06/07 13:02

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

If you plan a Duo group, and one is going to be a tank. My recommedations are this:

Him: Fire/Energy Slotted for damage dealing and damage resistance.

You: Radiation Emmission Defender. Secondary isn't that important, although Psi would probably be cool because it's not very resisted.

In the late game, it's all about the debuffs. A high level fire tanker can cap out his damage pretty well, however, he's still not going to be able to deal enough damage to effectively take down most AVs and Monsters. With a Rad Defender backing him up, he can seriously reduce the damage dealt and the resistance of the AV. This will allow the Tank to do his beat down.

Your Accelerate Metabolism, when slotted up, will keep his recharge and endurance in a good way. He'll be able to fire off his Healing Flames quickly to keep his HP up. Your debuffs on the AV will keep the damage dealt by them to a minimum as well as increasing the damage you both deal to the AV. You'll also have your Radiant Aura in case you need to pop off a heal or two here and there.

Another possibility:

Him: Invuln/Energy Tank. Lots of resistances and very good damage.

You: Force Field/Rad (or Psi) Defender. Your Defense Bubbles will mesh very nicely with his resistances. So he'll get hit less often because of your bubbles and he'll take less damage from the hits he does take from his Resistances. Win/Win.

Another possibility:

Him: Inv/Energy Tank (again).

You: Fire/Force Field Controller. Again, the bubbles will help a lot. However now you have some good damage dealing and control powers to help out in the fight. Your bubbles won't be as effective as they would be if you were a defender, but the control aspect will help a lot. Problem with this set is Endurance Consumption.

City of Heroes/Villains
Onion - L50 - Katana/Super Reflexes/Body Mastery Scrapper
Scotch Bonnet Girl - L50 - Fire Aura/Fire Melee/Pyre Mastery Tanker
RonJ73 - L50 - Stone/Energy Aura Brute
Aurora Australis - L50 - Willpower/Energy Melee Tanker

09/06/07 13:34

relytnos

Posts: 3
Joined: 07/28/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Alright I agree with the 1st and last possibilities but not the 2nd...if it were me i would go with a stone/fire tank and you as a fire/kin defender. its not one of the best matchups but the stats will be pretty even. the stone armor will increase defense and you as kinetics will keep his end up.

sry i haven't been on for awile but its been a crazy summer for me.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

09/06/07 16:37

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

I eliminated Kinetics as an option because, if you read the thread, he doesn't like Kinetics.

Why, I don't know. He just doesn't. Personally any set that has something as cool as Fulcrum Shift is fine by me.

09/06/07 17:06

bigspeer

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/22/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Now you all are just being silly. The tank should be fire/axe and the defender should be grav/TA!

You have no idea how well they mesh together. And if I told you, your head might explode so just take my word for it.

My name is Jean Claude Van Damme and I dance for you...

09/07/07 06:20

pathofwrath

Posts: 1
Joined: 06/02/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

QUOTE

The problem with that Big is that you can't have a Grav/TA defender......

Path of Wrath - Storm/Elec/Elec Defender - 50
Miss Trinidad - Ill/Storm/Ice Controller - 50
Miss Cote d'Ivoire - Dark/Regen/Dark Scrapper - 50
Posey Punk - Grav/Kin/Stone Controller - 50
Mr. Azerbaijan - Kin/Psy Defender - 50
Laccolith - Earth/Rad Controller - 35
Geriatric Justice - Willpower/SS Tanker - 38

09/07/07 09:28

pathofwrath

Posts: 1
Joined: 06/02/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

Nothing to see here.......

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

09/07/07 09:33

Schattenbolt

Posts: 0
Joined: 03/13/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Need some advice on tanks

However, a Grav/TA troller puts into mind someone who lifts up their own targets and shoots them down from a distance. Even though the TA doesn't do damage, it's got some groovy crowd control and debuffs to go with the holds and damage of Gravity Controll which could help out many a tank, I should think.

I know this is a dead-thread, but the idea of Grav/TA is interesting. I like it.

I'm curious to see how the Duo of the OP's eventually turned out.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Main server: Victory
Frequent Alt Server: Virtue

03/11/08 13:31

Don't Forget! - Rate users posts to reward or demerit their posts with Credibility!