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Sturmwolf
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most of my builds share one problem.
i just can't take all the pwoers i want, as soon as they get available...sometimes i can't even get all.
and often i have to delay defining powers to some later level.
that's leading me to the topic.
why do i have that problem...?
of course, because i have to get my travelpower and...
fitness.
fitness is the most common power in all builds.
so here is my question.
does anybody have some builds without fitness?
do they work?
any experience with it at all?
or do you all just pick the pool?
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| 10/04/07 06:26 |
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BGH122
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| QUOTE | most of my builds share one problem.
i just can't take all the pwoers i want, as soon as they get available...sometimes i can't even get all.
and often i have to delay defining powers to some later level.
that's leading me to the topic.
why do i have that problem...?
of course, because i have to get my travelpower and...
fitness.
fitness is the most common power in all builds.
so here is my question.
does anybody have some builds without fitness?
do they work?
any experience with it at all?
or do you all just pick the pool? |
i made a build without fitness once. ninja/dark mm because it was very pet focussed it was still okay. but then i respec'd into fitness and it was much better than those extra attacks because i could actually use the few attacks i did have.
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| 10/04/07 07:18 |
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Thundarpants
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i'd say that the only build scenario in the heroes side that can be effective without it is a regen scrapper.
my main on villains is also a mm without fitness because i have so many distractions to keep the mobs off of me directly.
not being able to get all of the power selections you want is one of the game designed challenges. basically, you rarely, if ever get to choose everything you want to create an effective character that has everything it needs. this also promotes diversity in the builds, even though there are still cookie cutter design specs for almost every combo.
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| 10/04/07 08:01 |
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Chuck Bronco
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the only build that i have had non-fitness success in is ws.
this is due to attaining "stygian circle" at 22. i am currently running 2 slightly different ws builds both without stam.
it was a bit of a struggle up to there but well worth it.
i havnt tried regen yet but i think that is another viable solution when matched up with a low end primary.
how about kinetics? anyone know if there is a chance of a non-stam build with that?
edited for correction not stygian return (thats the rez) its stygian circle.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
Tank'ns my Bidness and Bidness is GOOD!
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| 10/04/07 08:25 |
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Thundarpants
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Yeah, didn't think about Kinetics, or Empathy for that part. Kinetics on a Defender might be viable, but would be tough to get it up to Transference. On a Controller I would say it is not. The Troller powers are so End heavy, you would have too much down time in the middle of the fight.
Empathy Defenders regularly skip the Fitness pool.
So I'ds say it's possible on a Defender, but I woudn't recommend it on a Controller. I like the WS concept though. I never worked them deep enough to think out a concept like that.
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| 10/04/07 08:31 |
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dougnukem
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can a build be done without fitness? it can be done with any combo, but i will say for certain ones, there ends up being a price paid. my ta/arc does not have fitness, and my arc/em will not be getting it as of yet either. powersets that have some sort of self +rec make this alot easier obviously, and a few of them off the top of my head are ice armor, energy manip, elec manip, kin, and to a lesser extent, fire armor. of these, the only ones i've seen go without stamina and still maintain there strength are kin, elec manip, and also ice armor.
if you were to go staminaless, you would look to ensure at a minimum 1 end red in each attack, no matter what. 2 would actually be better, in the long run, and that is where you start effecting things such as damage, accuracy, and recharge rates.
so really, the answer is yes you can go without, but imo is it worth it in the end? i personally don't think so, for the majority of my toons.
Official Global Heroics Boozer
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| 10/04/07 09:24 |
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wild-orchid
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I agree with Thundarpants on the kinetics. My kin defender doesn't need it, But my kin controller does. And she still has end problems at times. Like if she misses with Transference.
Virtue Server
Eva Valerius- 50 AR/Dev Blaster
Wild-Orchid- 38 Ice/Kin Controller
Raina Valerius- 45 Thugs/Dark Master Mind
(Just my latest main characters :) I don't want to show anyone how I have no life and listing the others :P )
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| 10/04/07 09:35 |
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Sturmwolf
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funny thing is...i'm not a big fan of kinetics and empath.
so my thoughts really blanked them out.^^
masterminds can skip fitness, if they really just rely on their pets, right?
1 end redu in every attack is my regular build on most toons anyway, even with stamina.
with my tank(inv/ss), i have to kick in conserve power(epic) every now and than to keep my high end attacks going.
(and if i have foc acc going.)
only 2 of all my toons can do without stamina atm.
en/en-blaster with conserve power + hasten and a claw/regen-scrapper, but even with the scrappy i'm running low on endurance more often than i like and claws aren't end heavy.
=(
which sets are using the fewest endurance?
claws...archery...?
can dark consumption compensate for stamina?
any other alternatives like conserve power?
but keep in mind that i am refering to a stand alone build.
sure if i'm teaming with a pet kinetic i could skip fitness.
;o)
I'm listening to real music.
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(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)
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| 10/04/07 10:51 |
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dougnukem
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oh, i just remembered a combo that can easily skip fitness. dark melee/regen. it's a very nice combo, especially for soloing. alot of folks i know with one, can keep going forever, without stopping.
Official Global Heroics Boozer
Lifetime Member of the National Potstirrer Inc.
*I am an AoE addict! *
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| 10/04/07 15:00 |
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Thundarpants
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| QUOTE | | i agree with thundarpants on the kinetics. my kin defender doesn't need it, but my kin controller does. and she still has end problems at times. like if she misses with transference. |
yeah, even though the op wasn't fond of this set. an important feature to enhance on any character using kinetics is accuracy. i have tactics and 2 accuracy enhancements in transference and transfusion.
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| 10/04/07 15:11 |
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Hemlut
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most defenders in large teams don't need stamina, thats their base power but you can't always play with 6+ others.
electric blasters seems to need it less as they steal power but it's not something you can depend on.
you can try a something i'm working on, using fitness running as a travel power. i've got it slotted with 3 speed io's at 21. it's just a little bit slower than fly but leaves more power slots. not for everyone but seems to be working.
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| 10/04/07 15:36 |
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wild-orchid
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| QUOTE | most defenders in large teams don't need stamina, thats their base power but you can't always play with 6+ others.
electric blasters seems to need it less as they steal power but it's not something you can depend on.
you can try a something i'm working on, using fitness running as a travel power. i've got it slotted with 3 speed io's at 21. it's just a little bit slower than fly but leaves more power slots. not for everyone but seems to be working. |
Speaking of no travel power, As a kinetic you don't really have to have one. siphon speed gets you places rather quickly and inertial reduction grants you and all those lowbies that want the badge on the atlas globe and city hall super jump ;)
Virtue Server
Eva Valerius- 50 AR/Dev Blaster
Wild-Orchid- 38 Ice/Kin Controller
Raina Valerius- 45 Thugs/Dark Master Mind
(Just my latest main characters :) I don't want to show anyone how I have no life and listing the others :P )
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| 10/04/07 15:54 |
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Veloce
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one way would be to streamline your character built as i suggest in my guide : have power will travel.
look it up. at least it might give you some ideas. i myself apply it almost all the time and it helped me resolve this so infamous ''uncool power sequence'' we're stuck with between lv 10 and 20.
have fun!
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 10/04/07 17:07 |
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Sturmwolf
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| QUOTE | | oh, i just remembered a combo that can easily skip fitness. dark melee/regen. it's a very nice combo, especially for soloing. alot of folks i know with one, can keep going forever, without stopping. |
that sounds good...but i tried dark/regen once and deleted him before i hit the 20th.
munchkinwise a realy winner, but it didn't really suited me.
and you don't have any pesky wholes to fill with poolpowers.
I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc
(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)
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| 10/04/07 17:08 |
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Sturmwolf
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| QUOTE | | you can try a something i'm working on, using fitness running as a travel power. i've got it slotted with 3 speed io's at 21. it's just a little bit slower than fly but leaves more power slots. |
didn't widow mentioned something like that in the game amp power section?
about super reflex heroes with quickness and swift(+hurdle) outrunning the flyers.^^
sounds fun, bt i would try that only on a sr-scrapper.
I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc
(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)
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| 10/04/07 17:10 |
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White Hot Flash
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my main, energy/elec blaster doesn't have fitness. the only toggles i run come from the force mastery set, and that's just temp invuln. i never had a problem with end, and i only took two or three of the /elec powers. one of which, however, is power sink, which takes care of the few situations where i'm low or out of end. using 3 powers to get to stamina wasn't good for my concept.
if you slot your attacks well (lots of acc and dam), things will go down before you need to worry about end.
if you roll something more support-oriented, like a controller, keep in mind how many toggles you'll have working as you cycle through your holds and buffs/debuffs. you don't want to be caught in a fight with no end.
i suppose for all at's a good rule of thumb is: more toggles used = more need for stamina (or other +end powers).
Currently playing:
Champion Server:
White Hot Flash lvl 50 Energy/Elec/Force Blaster (woo hoo!)
Unspoken Threat lvl 50 Ninja/DM/Soul Mastermind
Kid White Flash lvl 40 Elec/Energy Blaster
White Hot Knight lvl 46 Peacebringer
Ghost of BlueBeard lvl 32 Dark/Dark Scrapper
Mini Fridge 3000 lvl 33 Ice/Ice Blaster
Die Wolf-spinne lvl 26 Crab
Triumph Server:
Schwarzen Knight lvl 47 BS/Regen/Dark Scrapper (part of Alliance)
Protector Server:
Daemon-seed lvl 37 Plant/Thorn Dominator
Major Discord lvl 17 AR/Traps Corruptor
Bossman Bot lvl 15 Thugs/FF Mastermind
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| 10/04/07 18:55 |
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Solarix
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living without fitness is my cup o' tea! the only builds of mine with fitness are my 28 inv/ss tank, my 28 blapper, and my 34 ff/psy defender. thats out of, say, ten lvl 20+ toons. my favorite build to trump those who "need" fitness is my lvl 50 dark miasma defender, who runs combat jumping, acrobatics, shadow fall, darkest night (debuff), and still attacks. all without fitness. i just throw an extra -end cost in toggles, snipes, and aoes, and use i think 5 or 6 sets that give like a 2% recovery increase as the first bonus. this helps a lot, and opened up options for other powers. just something to consider before you go hailing the fitness pool as something that every build would be worthless without. all you need to do is be smart about what you are using and when, powers-wise. if your enemy has only a bit of hp left and you just used your littler attack, dont waste the end of a bigger attack just to finish him off literally like 4 seconds sooner.
also, if anyone wants me to post my build for my d3 i will, in case you're curious. or, if you need one thats end-light, i can try and help you.
Current Projects
CoX
SpecOps Wink - level 47 Claws/Regen Scrapper
SpecOps Water Mage - lvling Kinetics/Ice Blaster
Alexis Silver - level 20 Energy/Kinetics Corrupter
Simon Pulse - Leveling Sonic/Devices Blaster
Kamma - Leveling Ice/Ice Dominator
Guild Wars
Avatar Korren - E/Rit level 20!
Arya Quinn - N/Rit
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| 10/04/07 20:03 |
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