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BGH122

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betrayal

i wish that betrayal would be brought into the game similar to everquest 2's betrayal system. essential this means players from one side (for instance heroes) can betray their roots and fall to the other team (i.e. become a villain). i've got a whole bunch of guys on union villains that i really love but the villain side of that server is just dead and the few players there are incoherent prepubescents (sorry if you're one of the aforementioned - i'm sure you're an exception). has this idea been raised before? i thought with the whole "old enemies become friends" tagline of the last issue that they were bringing it in but no.

let me know what you think; living in the ideal world that it is technically possible on their current system since it may well not be.

10/06/07 20:48

midnight guard

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RE: betrayal

yes, this idea has been suggested a few million times, devs call it 'redemption' for villains, and 'going rogue' for heroes.

they said it was possible, just not something they had time for in the next few issues, we might be seeing a system where villains and heroes can switch places, just not now

I'm in Japan for the time being - Check my blog!

(Europe) - Defiant & Union - @Midnight Guard
Villains:
Midnight Guard - Level 50 Dark Melee / Dark Armor / Soul Mastery Brute. [Defiant]
Flammenklinge - Level 50 Fire Melee / Invulnerability / Mu Mastery Brute. [Defiant]
Zenodorus - Level 50 Crab Spider Soldier / Crab Spider Training / Mace Mastery Arachnos Soldier. [Union]
Battler - Level 41 Battle Axe / Willpower / Mace Mastery Brute. [Union]
Karokage - Level 36 Ninjas / Dark Miasma Mastermind. [Defiant]
Midnight Phantom - Level 35 Martial Arts / Ninjutsu Stalker. [Union]
Darkspire - Level 43 Dual Blades / Willpower Brute. [Defiant]

Heroes:
Choshu - Level 50 Katana / Super Reflexes / Body Mastery Scrapper. [Defiant]
Ex Nihilo - Level 50 Umbral Blast / Umbral Aura Warshade. [Union]
Chihaji - Level 42 Radiation Emission / Electric Blast / Psychic Mastery Defender. [Union]
Szakuri - Level 41 Claws / Regeneration / Body Mastery Scrapper. [Union]
Holly Good - Level 35 Empathy / Psychic Blast Defender. [Defiant]
Scintillatus - Level 33 Fire Blast / Mental Manipulation Blaster. [Union]
Otonashi - Level 33 Martial Arts / Regeneration Scrapper. [Union]

Currently playing:
- - -
Currently listening to:
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10/07/07 04:27

BGH122

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RE: betrayal

That's good news. Thanks for the reply.

10/07/07 09:08

Miss fourtune

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RE: betrayal

could always just change the server they are on. we have a great group starting on justice villians side if your looking for somthing.. :)

10/07/07 11:30

relytnos

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RE: betrayal

I have a question about that, since there are a couple of different power choices for villians, and not heroes, will you get to keep the powers like plant control if you switch to hero?

10/07/07 15:34

Cr3ss3nt

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

i have a question about that, since there are a couple of different power choices for villians, and not heroes, will you get to keep the powers like plant control if you switch to hero?

exactly.

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10/07/07 16:49

Miss fourtune

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RE: betrayal

your villian would stay the same if you transfer them to a different server. the guy ealier was complaining that the villians server he was on he didn't care for. i assume there is no conversion between heroes and villians simply because the powers arn't the same. they shouldn't be the same they are villians.

10/07/07 17:36

Miss fourtune

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RE: betrayal

btw empty walls is the most awsome song out now serj rocks!

10/07/07 17:37

BGH122

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RE: betrayal

no it's not just that i dislike the server, it is the fact that villains scenery is just so slum-like. i can't be doing with playing in such a depressing game world for so long. i would really like it if they made exact copies of the power sets just with different names that were inaccessible to any other than a betrayer. for instance a thugs mastermind could become a vigilantes commander.

10/07/07 19:16

Sturmwolf

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

it is the fact that villains scenery is just so slum-like. i can't be doing with playing in such a depressing game world for so long.

Ok...I'm no big fan of "getting rogue" or "redemption", cause the lines between heroes and villains in game is pretty thin anyway.
But THAT's an argument I have to agree to(!!)

I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc

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You might missjudge me.)

10/07/07 19:49

Miss fourtune

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RE: betrayal

i seems to me a bit silly for a company to make such a drastic game change just cause you don't like getting your feet dirty...

10/08/07 04:47

Donovan Wolf

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RE: betrayal

That sounds like fun actually,

It would totally upset things, and turn them on their ear. A redeeming stalker in the hollows might be pretty popular if he can take out frostfire in a single strike.

I know I have a lvl 50 super strength/energy aura brute on triumph named big puppy that I think would make a fine bad guy turned good.

For those who have played villians, a high level empathy healer gone bad might be devastating giving out RA and fort to his/her evil buddies in pvp zones.

Triumph server
Big Puppy-lvl 50 super strength/energy aura brute
Silver Puppy-Lvl 50 Peacebringer
Gargoyle Icestorm-Lvl 50 ice/storm controller
Candella Midnight- lvl 50 ill/kin controller
Kyra Tangleroot-Lvl 50 Plant/Sonic Controller
Captain F Bomb-lvl 38 dark/elect defender
Porcupine X-lvl 37 spine/willpower scrapper
Nether Puppy-lvl 28 Warshade
Various others. . .altoholic maximus
Virtue
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10/08/07 05:38

Mech beta

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RE: betrayal

well it could really mess somethings up...like patron powers and epic power pools..

the villains would have to get totally new epic power pools, and if they already have patron powers that made up a specific build, it would be messed up...
(same with heroes)

**Post ends here**

10/08/07 06:23

Sturmwolf

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RE: betrayal

there are to many villainwannabees in paragon city anyway.
and bringing villains and heroes on the opposing sides would seriously putting the gamebalance at a risk.
and what about the flavorpowers?
"no mercy"-power is not appropriate for a hero.

10/08/07 06:38

Mech beta

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

there are to many villainwannabees in paragon city anyway.

Hey!! My costumes just look evil...

**Post ends here**

10/08/07 12:36

giles202

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RE: betrayal

just a random comment, blasters/corrupters need water blast!!!!

on topic, the idea of "betrayal" has been put up as said already, its just that there are so many loop holes to consider in the system, a broadsword/regeneration stalker? ouch. a fire/kin dominator? oucher. stone/ss brute? and i thought they were tough before....

thing is, they are trying to limit players from power leveling and stuff like that, and that is pretty hard to do when you swap the powerleveling players from both sides. so then when people get a villain to 50 after powerleveling off of a rogue fire/kin, they switch sides and power level a hero and so on.

its a vicious cycle that they are trying to prevent.

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If you don't know them, why are you reading this?

10/08/07 12:42

Sturmwolf

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

its just that there are so many loop holes to consider in the system,

That's the big point.
To many things to consider.
Atm it's all pretty good balanced, but bringing "turning" into the game will bring up tons of nerfs, like the first introduction of Pvp.

10/08/07 13:33

RonJ73

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RE: betrayal

i think rwz has shown that hero and villain ats working together really isn't that much of a problem. nothing becomes too uber. i mean a brute with the empathy "buffs" on him is pretty badass, but still...not game breaking.

at any rate, i don't think it would be a major issue. though don't expect to see it in issue 11, i wouldn't be surprised to see it down the road a little bit. rwz seemed like it was the "trial run" in the way that the arena was the "trial run" for pvp zones.

City of Heroes/Villains
Onion - L50 - Katana/Super Reflexes/Body Mastery Scrapper
Scotch Bonnet Girl - L50 - Fire Aura/Fire Melee/Pyre Mastery Tanker
RonJ73 - L50 - Stone/Energy Aura Brute
Aurora Australis - L50 - Willpower/Energy Melee Tanker

10/08/07 14:30

Cr3ss3nt

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

btw empty walls is the most awsome song out now serj rocks!

whoot! i love serj and soad so much.

and on topic, i don't think the game is ready for soemthing like that, it would be too much. i agree that it would be cool, but look at it deeper, all the powers, and class styles would be kinda messy. maybe if they figured out a way to clean it up and make it more set, it could be done. but don't expect it in the next issue or anything.

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10/09/07 00:50

RonJ73

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RE: betrayal

i really don't think it would be that much of a problem. i mean, there would have to be some sort of redemption task force or trial or something to let it happen, i'm thinking it should also result in some sort of xp debt or something as a sort of "pay off".

realistically (well, as realistic as comics get anyway) it makes sense. i mean how many characters have switched sides over the years. magneto, mystique, emma "white queen" frost, just to name a few.

10/09/07 07:32

BGH122

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

realistically (well, as realistic as comics get anyway) it makes sense. i mean how many characters have switched sides over the years. magneto, mystique, emma "white queen" frost, just to name a few.

Quite, that's exactly it. For a roleplayer this would be brilliant. For a gamer who doesn't want to play in a laggy slum (I don't call that fear of not wanting my virtual feet to get dirty thank you very much I call that wanting to play in a half decent game world when I am paying £9 a month) it's great. I've already said as well that a way of preventing Broadsword/Regen stalkers etc is making hidden classes. This means that the class of corrupter etc and all its subsidiaries are a hero class, they're simply not pickable. You just become that class when you betray. It doesn't mean that both sides get all the other sides choices. If you're a stalker you become an assassin (couldn't think of a less evil name for that class off the top of my head) so if you were a Kat/Regen stalker you are now a Kat/Regen Assassin with all the same powers. And before I get loads of "it isn't possible to make hidden classes" yes it is; look at Warshades, they exist and the form (that's essentially what the login screens are: database forms) shows them but unless a criteria is met (level 50 in this case) then they are not selectable. A hidden class would be the same, just as you are tagged for level 50 so you can pick Warshade you'd be tagged as a betrayer so you can see your class type.

10/09/07 11:18

Miss fourtune

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RE: betrayal

Lag i can understand just the way you described your distaste that didn't sound like the problem. It sounds plosible with the hidden thing but i would think it would take at least a few issues before they could add that much to the game.

10/09/07 12:52

BGH122

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

Well I'm not really given to lying about why I don't want to play that game, what on earth would be my reasoning for that? But essentially yes, I realise it may take them some time to do this but the marketplace system is a far far harder task than this and that was pumped out in just 1 issue, so why shouldn't this be?

10/09/07 12:56

Miss fourtune

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RE: betrayal

didn't mean lie just taken wrong.

10/09/07 13:23

RonJ73

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RE: betrayal

my idea is more simple. you go bad...you get flagged as a villain. same powers, same build, same archetype. a tank isn't suddenly a brute. she's a tank who's a villain.

a corruptor who suddenly becomes good, same powers, same build, same archetype, but still just a corruptor marked as a hero.

10/09/07 13:48

Mech beta

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

i think this could lead to major inbalance of mms...cuz who doesn't want a good mm...also, it could lead to more demands of people, like "i want longbow agents for my mm cuz i gonna turn him good!" or "i want my dominator to have illusion control, cuz i like their secondarys more than controllers, and i want a hero!"

**Post ends here**

10/09/07 13:53

BGH122

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RE: betrayal

QUOTE

didn't mean lie just taken wrong.

okay fair enough.

@ronj

we basically mean the same thing, i don't think the powerset should change in anyway, just that the names should change. mastermind is a clearly evil name, commander is not. thugs just makes no sense as a good class, so vigilantes is a good alternative. brute still makes sense because brutish people aren't necessarily evil; just big and heavy handed. i don't suggest powers would change in any way.

10/09/07 16:18

relytnos

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re: betrayal

here is something kinda different...well alot different...but still along the same guidlines of what you guys are talking, ok how come a average sized dude with all this heavy armor on him can jump the same height as a dude thats the same height and weight with nothing but jeans and a t-shirt on...it kinda just throws physics and all that good stuff that we relie on out the window.

it just makes the game seem that less real.

i mean what they could do is say okay a x'x" tall hero weighing at x pounds when at x body type would have about a x amount of body muscle when wearing a shirt and jeans which would weigh a total of x pounds so he would be able to run at x speed and jump x height, but if he had on mideavil knight armor which weighs x pounds he would be able to run y speed and jump y height.

it's a little bit more complicated than that but don't you think the game would be more fun with these small obstacles in your way, and then they could do stuff like...well if h hero is wearing pants and jeans which provide a armor than he would get d damage from a sword or arrow, but if he wears heavy knight armor then it would provide with b armor and deal s damage.

i think that this would be a lot more fun to play.

i know what you guys are you going to say, "well if they did it that way then everyone would just wear heavy armor and then get tp, and then everyone in the game would have the same travel power and look alike and then the game would get boring." yea maybe but some of the vetran players would enjoy the challenge of the less armor more damage thing and maybe some of the newbs to.

i think its the realism of the game that makes it popular as well as the orginality and the variety of things to do.

i know i'm not going to be seeing something like this for a long time but it would still be a lot of fun, plus the lower levels wouldn't be so boring.

so any comments!!

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

10/09/07 16:53

BGH122

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RE: betrayal

yeah i see what you are saying but in all truth that sounds like it would be really hard for them to do. they'd have to go through every item in the game and add weight and then add a proper physics system that could cope with it (or make a calculation based engine addition to deal with weight). if we're turning this into things we want:

walking!!! i mean ffs it could just be a toggle power like sprint... your character walks when you tap forward very quickly anyway so it is blatantly possible.

10/09/07 17:00

relytnos

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RE: betrayal

no i'm just saying this because of the fact that i'm just tired of what i talked about and i just wanted to vent really, seemed like a good idea to do it hear since we were discussing hypothetical updates that we wanted to see...we were doing that right?

10/09/07 17:06

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