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Wyat_hawke

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Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

Originally Posted by Izzy from official wiki 31/10/2007
I'm working on Next balance update, so I'll be checking out the forums. Here are the list of issues I'm looking into.

* Spiritway
* Dual Clums Build
* Ancestor Rage Spike
* Splinter Weapon at VoD
* Three Monk backlines
* Recall
* Bloodspike

So, what do people think will happen next? How will the skills get affected, and why?

11/02/07 19:54

Belshazaarswrath

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

* Spiritway

What is this? I heard of it but I don't know what it actually is. Is it like spirit spamming?

QUOTE

* Dual Clums Build

What it this?

QUOTE

* Ancestor Rage Spike

Didn't they balance this already?

QUOTE

* Splinter Weapon at VoD

What is this?

QUOTE

* Three Monk backlines

How do you nerf having 3 monks in a group?

QUOTE

* Recall

whats to nerf/balance?

QUOTE

* Bloodspike

People still use this?

11/02/07 20:11

Rogue

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

* Spiritway
Spiritspam with a bunch of gimicky crap.

* Dual Clums Build
2 assassins, 2 clums mesmers, 4 other. Split like crazy and destroy melees ability to do damage on both sides at the same time. It sucks.
* Ancestor Rage Spike
Ancestors Rage is pretty powerful TBH.
* Splinter Weapon at VoD
One skill on a dervish can kill the entire opposing teams army of archers/knights/footies/whatever in like 3 seconds.
* Three Monk backlines
Usually two stand monks and a monk runner that can aid on splits and still have a strong stand presence.
* Recall
It's broken. And it's overpowered.
* Bloodspike
IMO blood spike explodes when played against balance... especially if the balanced team has splinter weapon.

IGN: Rogue Mysst. Guest me for GvG.

11/02/07 20:36

Belshazaarswrath

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

2 clums mesmers

What is this?

11/02/07 20:49

Skittle Cody

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

2 clums mesmers

What is this?

Two mesmers that bring the skill Clumsiness.

Buy me a giraffe <3

11/02/07 21:25

Belshazaarswrath

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

2 clums mesmers

What is this?

Two mesmers that bring the skill Clumsiness.

Oh. didn't they buff that a few months ago? I think it could use a nerf.

11/02/07 21:48

Chrisworld

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

I hope they don't mess up anything too bad...

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~ Playing Guildwars Since 3/19/06 ~ [AMP] Member since November 2007 ~

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11/02/07 22:01

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

* Spiritway
* Dual Clums Build
* Ancestor Rage Spike
* Splinter Weapon at VoD
* Three Monk backlines
* Recall
* Bloodspike

Spiritway: Could use a nerf...maybe. But there are skills that allow you to instantly destroy spirits. So not sure on this one.

Dual Clums Build: Meh, don't use as much melee. If the mesmers go all anti-melee, pwn them with magic.

Ancestor's Rage: Yeah, it's pretty powerful right now. It prolly should take a nerf.

Splinter Weapon with VoD: Have no idea what this is.

Three Monk Backlines: How the h*** do you nerf a party that has three monks? If the opposing team isn't good enough to dispatch the monks, then they deserve to lose. Hands down.

*Edit*: Did this come about from the fact that a lot of PvP matches usually have 2 monks per team? Every match I've ever watched, there were only 2 monks on each team. So if a team throws in a 3rd monk for better healing, protection...does everybody suddenly go, OMG!? WTF!? 3 monks!?! That's impossible to beat!!...Sounds to me like that team would also be at a disadvantage because of decreased damage output. Dunno though.

Recall: Yeah it has some really effective usage. But how the h*** are they gonna nerf it? Only have it last a set amount of time? If that's the case, then it'll just be like some of the other sin shadow stepping skills. If they do that, then they might as well get rid of it all together cuz we all ready have at least 3 or 4 skills like that all ready. Shorten the range on it? Once again, we all ready have shadow stepping skills that work at closer range and this would just make recall a copy of them. Ever consider bringing an enchant removal and making the target shadow step back at the wrong time? Sounds to me like that would work.

Bloodspike: Been around a long time. But how are they gonna effectively nerf it? Decrease the amount of damage done/health stolen? If they do that, then it would kinda make Blood magic useless...especially in PvE. Make it non-armor ignoring? That would definitely be stupid.....a skill says steal 50 health from target but then armor gets factored in and you only steal maybe 30 health? That would pretty much be stupid because of the previous reason.

I don't PvP much, but I see that some of these problems could easily be countered with the right builds. Sounds to me like a bunch of lazy people complaining cuz they don't wanna change their strategy to beat these builds. Remember when IWAY was supposedly unstoppable? Well, guess what? Someone somewhere came up with a counter for it.

Just my opinions. I could be wrong on some of this. If I am, then I apologize. Please correct if this is the case.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/02/07 22:27

Belshazaarswrath

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

Recall: Yeah it has some really effective usage. But how the h*** are they gonna nerf it? Only have it last a set amount of time? If that's the case, then it'll just be like some of the other sin shadow stepping skills. If they do that, then they might as well get rid of it all together cuz we all ready have at least 3 or 4 skills like that all ready. Shorten the range on it? Once again, we all ready have shadow stepping skills that work at closer range and this would just make recall a copy of them. Ever consider bringing an enchant removal and making the target shadow step back at the wrong time? Sounds to me like that would work.

They could increase the amount of energy it costs or maybe make it cost 2 energy bips rather than 1.

11/02/07 22:32

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

They could increase the amount of energy it costs or maybe make it cost 2 energy bips rather than 1.

The increased energy cost, IMO, wouldn't change anything. True it'll take a bigger chunk out of your energy bar, but with still only 1 energy degeneration, it's about the same. Just wouldn't be able to use it as much when low on energy...which is bad enough with it the way it currently is.

Making is cost 2 energy degeneration instead of 1? That sounds a bit harsh to me. No other upkeep spell in the game causes more than 1 energy degen (unless of course you have multiple ones in use). I hope that you all realize that there never use to be a problem with recall. But now all of a sudden, someone has found an effective use for it....and people start running and screaming...OMG! How do we beat this? It's never been used this way before! We don't like it when someone finds a good use for a dormant skill! My opinion...find a counter to it...such as stripping it off at the oppurtune time instead of letting them take it off when they want too.

11/02/07 22:40

Rogue

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

I don't PvP much, but I see that some of these problems could easily be countered with the right builds. Sounds to me like a bunch of lazy people complaining cuz they don't wanna change their strategy to beat these builds. Remember when IWAY was supposedly unstoppable? Well, guess what? Someone somewhere came up with a counter for it.

Works on paper, doesn't work so much in practice. When full team builds are worked around making a single skill more effective, that skill needs some serious thought put into it.

Full teamwipes happen because of splinterweapon on a warrior that smashes a retreating team on a bridge. Ancestors rage causes obscene ammounts of kills and gives flagrunner rits an even bigger stand presence.

IGN: Rogue Mysst. Guest me for GvG.

11/02/07 22:53

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

Full teamwipes happen because of splinterweapon on a warrior that smashes a retreating team on a bridge. Ancestors rage causes obscene ammounts of kills and gives flagrunner rits an even bigger stand presence.

Don't guess you read my post very well. I said I had no idea what the Splinter Weapon with VoD was and so gave no comment on it. I also said that Ancestor's Rage needs to be nerfed. So your points aren't making much sense.

*Edit* I figured out what Splinter with VoD is (felt kinda stupid after I realized it). But I still have no comment on it. Stupid AI I guess. Other than that, my above comments still stand.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/02/07 22:57

Rogue

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

but I see that some of these problems could easily be countered with the right builds.

That's what I was commenting on.

IGN: Rogue Mysst. Guest me for GvG.

11/02/07 23:11

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

but I see that some of these problems could easily be countered with the right builds.

That's what I was commenting on.

Meh. More PvP whiners. I hear it too often. Go get titles in PvE or something.

IMO, if you want to play PvP over PvE, then you need to be able to adapt to changing builds and situations. If you can't, then you shouldn't be PvPing. Or if you choose to continue PvPing, then don't complain. I myself don't play PvP for the plain and simple fact of all the whiners and noobs who think they're leet until they get their a** handed to them, in which they respond with a hail of insults and nasty comments. Playing with Heroes and Henchmen in PvE who don't complain or back talk to me is a much better experience than listening to all the PvP whiners and jerks. A simple equation can sum this all up:

No creativity + PvP = BAD combination.

Yeah, maybe my comments are more PvE oriented, but that's my opinion. I like PvE better than PvP and personally think that it is better and more rewarding.

11/02/07 23:23

Belshazaarswrath

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

but I see that some of these problems could easily be countered with the right builds.

That's what I was commenting on.

Yea that seemed pretty obvious to me...

Anyway you can counter builds with other build but not mid battle.

You prepare for long periods of time for Ha matches you don't just go in and do it. The fact that people can undermine your whole idea with a few cheap skills really sucks...

11/02/07 23:24

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

You prepare for long periods of time for Ha matches you don't just go in and do it. The fact that people can undermine your whole idea with a few cheap skills really sucks...

The whole point of PvP is to pit you against a fellow human being instead of AI. Them's the breaks of PvP. If you can't handle it, then quit PvP.

*Edit* I just thought of something. I've seen teams in RA do a better job of winning than these so called, "thought out and well planned" teams. Seriously, if a completely random combination of builds and people can effectively win against the unknown, then what excuse do these "well planned" teams have? If so much thought goes into them, then they should technically be unstoppable. So obviously, someone isn't thinking things through very well or they just suck at it.

And when another team uses a build that is better than yours, accept it. Who gives a flying crap if it's a cookie cutter build? If anything, you should be ashamed of yourself for falling prey to such a popular and widely used build that you should know about all too well. And if your build can't effectively counter the opponents' build, too bad, so sad. Your problem, not theirs. Learn from your mistake and do better next time.

All I constantly hear from PvPers is complaint after complaint after complaint. For being the so called "elite" of the game because of your ability to best other human opponents instead of a pre-programmed AI, you sure do a lot of whining and complaining. "OMG they pwned us!? How!?" I'll tell you how. They're better than you. How else would they win? Even if they use some "cheap" build to win, at least they were smart enough to use it (unlike the losers). Yeah, it's true that every once and awhile a certain skill is way too overpowered, but it usually gets nerfed anyway. But most of the time, all of these build/skill complaints come from the people who are too stubborn and/or stupid to use them themselves. Who cares if something is "cheap"? If it works...USE IT! Quit trying to deny it and nerf it into submission. Obviously, someone, somewhere was creative enough to think of those builds in the first plac. Notice the important word there..."creative". (And "cheap" works.....hell, if it wasn't for "cheap" tricks, strategy, etc. real life events could turn out very different. Take the Atomic bomb blasts on Japan. Yeah, it's true that the use of them to kill thousands of innocent civilians was "cheap" but it won the war and actually kept casualties lower than what they would have been if the war had kept on being fought like it had been.) So yeah, cheap works. Get use to it.

So instead of complaining about something just because you can't beat it or just because it's out of the norm, do something about it yourself! Quit relying on Anet to nerf stuff for you so that you can pwn people the next time you go into battle. It's like I heard someone once say on this site....."There will always, always, ALWAYS be a counter for any given build. The challenge and reward comes from actually finding that counter." And if you go into battle with a counter for a certain build, and the opposing team doesn't use that certain build. Too bad, you lose. Your fault, not theirs. Them's the breaks of PvP. Get use to it or get out.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/02/07 23:35

Rogue

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

but I see that some of these problems could easily be countered with the right builds.

That's what I was commenting on.

Meh. More PvP whiners. I hear it too often. Go get titles in PvE or something.

IMO, if you want to play PvP over PvE, then you need to be able to adapt to changing builds and situations. If you can't, then you shouldn't be PvPing. Or if you choose to continue PvPing, then don't complain. I myself don't play PvP for the plain and simple fact of all the whiners and noobs who think they're leet until they get their a** handed to them, in which they respond with a hail of insults and nasty comments. Playing with Heroes and Henchmen in PvE who don't complain or back talk to me is a much better experience than listening to all the PvP whiners and jerks. A simple equation can sum this all up:

No creativity + PvP = BAD combination.

Yeah, maybe my comments are more PvE oriented, but that's my opinion. I like PvE better than PvP and personally think that it is better and more rewarding.

I'll comment on the bolded parts, in order.

Shut up.

I do. Alot. So do most other PvPers.

That's what balanced builds are, and why they include really powerful skills as much as possible while maintaining synergy with the rest of the team. Balanced builds maintain a strong 8v8 presence, while being able to suddenly split off and change tactics to force opponents into making mistakes and then capitalizing on them.

I play with H/H all the time. I'm also one of the most aggressive PvErs in the world. I also permafrenzy. I also die incredibly rarely. The difference is, I play with H/H because I find PvErs to be generally bad at the game/cant communicate for beans.

Yes. Duh.

That shouldn't effect your analysis.

IGN: Rogue Mysst. Guest me for GvG.

11/02/07 23:38

Rogue

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

Double post, I don't care.

QUOTE

The whole point of PvP is to pit you against a fellow human being instead of AI. Them's the breaks of PvP. If you can't handle it, then quit PvP.

Skills should be balanced so that a single skill will not win every game. That's just making the game stale.

IGN: Rogue Mysst. Guest me for GvG.

11/02/07 23:39

Charlotte The Harlot

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

There are skills that instantly kill spirits true but then you sacrifice a skill slot for something that could become potentially useless and therefor not good in pvp where you need to be able to handle anything.

Caster pressure almost always becomes a spike and/or gimmick (see sf). Most of those builds get crushed by a good team and caster pressure in a balanced build just isnt anywhere near that of melee. making skills like clumsiness that can easily split and counter them in a split and at the stand flawed in some way, imo they need a shorter duration so that you have to catch the attack instead of directly countering a warrior.

Either Ancestors or splinter imo both dont neccisarily need a nerf since a build with one always has the other.

Btw Splinter at VoD is splinter weapon and victory or death which allows a team to wipe npcs extremely quick and take away a lot of tactical split play when it comes to taking out npcs.

Three monk backlines means 2 stand monks and a monk flagger which means for boring split play its not that teams cant beat it, it means it makes matches more boring if its just two teams crashing heads at the stand for 18 minutes. In order to "nerf" this it would either be a nerf to the monk skills or a buff for the split players or to make splitting more favorable.

Basically aside from spirit way which is an HA matter most stuff is addressing split play not having enough significance and being too hard to do in comparison to decimating the npcs with splinter instead. It may not sound important to a pve player but split play and collapses is probably one of the things that made gvg most exciting.

11/02/07 23:43

Charlotte The Harlot

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

PvP is about outplaying your opponent through tactical positioning and precise skill usage if a build is overpowered or has too many direct counters you get build wars where your player skill isnt nearly as important as it should be and whoever got lucky or chose to take advantage of the overpowered gimmick has a much better chance of winning. Skill choice has to be a factor to some extent but as long as the skill choices are balanced something that completely dominates another style of play just leads to rock paper scissors which is one of the least strategic and most boring games on the planet. In pve bringing direct counters to destroy spirits or whatever might work but thats because pve is insanely easy in comparison to pvp. So before calling pvpers whiners for wanting a balance you should understand how the game works.

11/02/07 23:51

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

Shut up.

Nice. Very mature.

I read your guys' comments and all I have to say is this.

You are doing nothing except reinforcing what I said about PvPers. You can't handle it when someone is better than you or uses a "cheap" build to destroy you and/or cause a stalemate. If I'm not mistaken, that's what should be expected sometimes in PvP.

QUOTE

In pve bringing direct counters to destroy spirits or whatever might work but thats because pve is insanely easy in comparison to pvp

True, PvE is easier than PvP...but that's exactly it. PvP is suppose to be harder, with unexpected twists, and major pwnage in some matches with stalemates in others. PvP is much more random than PvE. That's why it all comes down to who uses the most effective build at the most effective time (be it a "cheap" build or well thought out build....a build is a build, and if it wins the match, it was obviously better than the other). I don't give a rat's butt how good you think your build is or how much time and effort you put into it or how balanced you think it is...if you lose, YOU LOSE. That is PvP! Get over it and go on to the next match.

QUOTE

Go get titles in PvE or something.

I do. Alot. So do most other PvPers.

I wasn't saying that you PvPers don't do that. It was merely a suggestion to do something else note worthy of your time.

QUOTE

That's what balanced builds are, and why they include really powerful skills as much as possible while maintaining synergy with the rest of the team. Balanced builds maintain a strong 8v8 presence, while being able to suddenly split off and change tactics to force opponents into making mistakes and then capitalizing on them.

I think that's a big part of PvPer's problems. You spend all your time making what you think to be the perfect build, then someone else stomps on you. Then you get all mad and start calling for nerfs and such. They were obviously better. Hands down. Doesn't matter if they used a cheap build. They still beat you fair and square. Using a cheap build or overpowered skill is not unfair or "cheap", it's just someone using what Anet gave them to use. It's not the other team's fault that you didn't think of bringing it or creating it first yourself. The ONLY time it would be considered cheap is if the other team used an in-game exploit...such as a bug of some sort. Using a skill or combination of skills in the way that their definitions state is not cheap, it's smart and effective. Don't cry cause you didn't think of it.

QUOTE

Skills should be balanced so that a single skill will not win every game. That's just making the game stale.

No, that's you whining about it.

QUOTE

A risk that must be taken sometimes in PvP. If your build isn't set to handle the opponent's build, then get use to it. That's what PvP is all about. The UNKNOWN. If you can't win a match cuz of your build, too bad. Your fault, not the other teams'.

QUOTE

Then cheers to them for winning. At least they were smart enough to bring a build that has a good chance of winning the match for them. And player skill? Obviously your player skill sucks if you lose to a build as the one you're talking about.

QUOTE

Skill choice has to be a factor to some extent but as long as the skill choices are balanced something that completely dominates another style of play just leads to rock paper scissors which is one of the least strategic and most boring games on the planet.

Hmmm...I'm pretty sure the whole point to build/counter-build is the same basic concept to rock/paper/scissors. Rock beats scissors, scissors beat paper, and paper beats rock. Just like anything else in life. If you have something that can win you the match, then use it. If the losing team was unfortunate enough to bring a build that was so easily countered, too bad for them. Their fault, not the opponents'. Just like a tank falls prey to infantry. Add infantry with the tank and the team with just infantry loses. The team with just infantry adds helicopter gunships, they then pwn the tank and infantry. The tank and infantry add anti air capabilities, they pwn the infantry and helicopters. So on and so forth. Life is nothing but rock/paper/scissors. So to sit there and say,"It shouldn't be like rock/paper/scissors" is just plain dumb. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" - Sir Isaac Newton.

*Edit* On a side note. If every single team in PvP was "balanced" like you guys' are putting it, then every match would be a stalemate. Neither team would be able to win or lose. Two perfect teams going against each other would go nowhere. So think of these so called "cheap" builds and/or skills as the things in life that help to keep things flowing. They cause wins for some and loses for others. If you don't want to look at it that way, fine with me. But it's the truth.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/03/07 00:34

Charlotte The Harlot

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

Anyway i love how you ignored what i said about it being a game of skill the game should not about being lucky with what you take it should be about being more skillful on the battle field.

QUOTE

*Edit* On a side note. If every single team in PvP was "balanced" like you guys' are putting it, then every match would be a stalemate. Neither team would be able to win or lose. Two perfect teams going against each other would go nowhere. So think of these so called "cheap" builds and/or skills as the things in life that help to keep things flowing. They cause wins for some and loses for others. If you don't want to look at it that way, fine with me. But it's the truth.

If the builds were identical then the team with more skillful players would win like it should be in a competitive game. Like i said there should be variety to suit your playstyle best so that you can use the playstyle you are better at to take advantages of the other players weakness in their play style, but rock paper scissors takes to no skill and takes advantage of their completely coincidental choices and therefor is bad for a game with its entire foundation based upon player skill.

11/03/07 00:53

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

Anyway i love how you ignored what i said about it being a game of skill the game should not about being lucky with what you take it should be about being more skillful on the battle field.

You're wrong. A LOT of things come down to luck. Such as what you bring to the match. You may go into the match thinking,"I have a really good, balanced build. I should do pretty good. I put a lot of effort and strategy into this." And when you start the battle...BOOM! Someone uses their build to pwn yours. Why? Maybe it did involve some strategy and timing. But the major factor was that they were lucky enough to bring the right build to own yours. You can't deny that. Strategy can only go so far. You could have the world's best general strategizing for your team, but if you don't have the right weapons to fight with at the time, you're gonna lose to someone who does have them. Another example would be...."Oh look, we're gonna pwn them because we have an awesome sniper posted in the building over there and they have no way of taking him out....wait what's that? The sniper didn't bring his rifle? OH NO! We lost!" Good strategy, bad luck with what you brought.

QUOTE

If the builds were identical then the team with more skillful players would win like it should be in a competitive game.

I didn't say identical builds. If that were the case, then yeah, the team with better timing and strategy would win. I said teams. I'm talking about you guys' referring to people using their own builds to effectively counter the other team's build, whatever it may be. If both "teams" were balanced like you said, then technically they would go nowhere. Timing may play a part in the battle, but overall luck is what would win it (if there was a winner).

QUOTE

Like i said there should be variety to suit your playstyle best so that you can use the playstyle you are better at to take advantages of the other players weakness in their play style, but rock paper scissors takes to no skill and takes advantage of their completely coincidental choices and therefor is bad for a game with its entire foundation based upon player skill.

THAT is the exact same concept as rock/paper/scissors. One of the three has an advantage over one of the others. It's all about advantages and disadvantages aka rock/paper/scissors or fire/water or heat/cold and so on. So what if rock/paper/scissors doesn't necessarily take any skill? If they beat you that way, they beat you. They get the victory. Quit whining about it. Your opinion may be that it makes the game boring, but to someone else, it may make it exciting cuz it allows them to win. All I'm getting from you is that you don't like it when someone beats you so easily like with rock/paper/scissors. Sounds to me like you're just a sore loser. Accept the defeat and move on, no matter how much more skill you think you have over them. A large part of skill is luck. You may not want to accept that fact, but in reality it's the truth.

Take Michael Jordan for instance. He had great skill in the game of basketball. But what allowed him that skill? Luck. He was lucky he wasn't born deformed and unable to play b-ball. He was lucky he wasn't killed at an early age so that he could go on to become great. He was lucky that he was able to practice so much instead of working like a lot of kids have too. He was lucky that he didn't have any more sweat on his hand when he made that free throw, otherwise the ball could have slipped a little and went off course. He was lucky he never got hurt bad enough to end his career. He was lucky that he got put with such a great team at that time, the Bulls. He was lucky that he had a loving family to come home to every night because if he didn't it could have seriously affected his career (aka depression, drug use, etc). He was lucky the game of b-ball was even invented, otherwise he may have just been another regular average joe. He was lucky that the man guarding him slipped so that he could go in for that winning lay up. I could go on forever. The point I'm trying to make is that no matter how good you are or how good of a strategist you are or how good you are at timing stuff, if someone is lucky enough to catch you off guard, you're screwed. So to say that coincidental choices and/or luck make a bad and/or boring game is definitely the wrong thing to say. The crappier team got lucky and beat the better team. One team go lucky and brought the right build to counter the other team's build.

In essence, you're complaining yet again about things that you think are "cheap" or unfair. In reality, you just had bad enough luck to hit the wrong skill button, or position yourself in the wrong spot. You may think that what you're doing is good strategy and that you can't lose if you do it, but there will always be someone out there that is better and can turn your "advantage" against you.

11/03/07 01:26

Posts: 13
Joined: 05/25/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

Spiritway: Could use a nerf...maybe.

Maybe?

No , It NEEDS a nerf. There are too many people running around with r6+ in HA these days thinking they can play any build when all they can play is cheap gimmick builds

11/03/07 01:29

Zephyr_Storm

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/04/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

No , It NEEDS a nerf. There are too many people running around with r6+ in HA these days thinking they can play any build when all they can play is cheap gimmick builds

Ahh yes. I think I remember you. You're the one with a personal vendetta against cookie cutter builds and the people that just look them up instead of thinking of their own. Am I correct in guessing that? If I'm wrong then I apologize. *Edit* I found the topic where you stated that you wished people would think of their own builds instead of using other people's. Your opinion of course, but you can't deny the fact that those people can and prolly do beat you some. I think you just resent them for beating you. Anyway, Clicky

As I stated earlier, big deal if it's a pre-made, widely used build. If you can't think of something to beat it, shame on you. You deserve to lose. If cheap wins the battle, then that's all that matters. They win, you lose. Go cry about it in a corner if you want. The fact of the matter is that you obviously did bad enough that someone with a "cheap" build beat you. If you want to win, then use the "cheap" build. If you want to continue losing and whining about stuff, then keep up what you're doing (from the way it sounds). Heck, I even see IWAY still winning some of the time. Yeah, effective counters were eventually made for it and a lot of people considered the IWAY build cheap....but if it can win the match, it wins the match. I honestly could care less if I beat you with a "cheap" build. I won. You didn't. You then go on to whine and call for a nerf. Anet responds with the nerf and I use the next "cheap" build in line. I beat you again. I win. You lose. Never ending cycle repeats. Get use to it. Suck it up. Some people prefer to not use thinking or strategy when it comes to PvP. It's their playstyle. And if they can beat you strategists that way, then so be it. The world goes round.

Edit:

*Yawn* I'm tired, I'm going to bed. I'm tired of arguing with sore losers. If you can't take the randomness factor and luck involved with PvP and the fact that some people will always use "cheap" builds to win, then get out of PvP now. Cuz all the rest of us will ever hear is you complaining about this build or that skill or this profession combination or blah blah blah. Play PvP, accept your defeats (no matter how cheap the other team is), relish your victories, and try to have fun instead of sitting around complaining about what it is you're suppose to be enjoying. And if for some reason you can never enjoy it, then why keep playing it? /nuff said

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/03/07 01:43

Posts: 13
Joined: 05/25/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

You fail so hard and I see that if you are ranked in HA, You got it by playing lame.

QUOTE

As I stated earlier, big deal if it's a pre-made, widely used build.

Lol

QUOTE

*Yawn* I'm tired, I'm going to bed. I'm tired of arguing with sore losers. If you can't take the randomness factor and luck involved with PvP and the fact that some people will always use "cheap" builds to win, then get out of PvP now. Cuz all the rest of us will ever hear is you complaining about this build or that skill or this profession combination or blah blah blah. Play PvP, accept your defeats (no matter how cheap the other team is), relish your victories, and try to have fun instead of sitting around complaining about what it is you're suppose to be enjoying. And if for some reason you can never enjoy it, then why keep playing it? /nuff said

Do you even pvp?

From your replies, You just talk utter BS about PvP. And How does it make me a sore loser by saying stop playing meta?

Maybe you should go QQ somwhere else

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

11/03/07 02:30

Octivous Servil

Posts: 0
Joined: 03/15/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

Edit:

*Yawn* I'm tired, I'm going to bed. I'm tired of arguing with sore losers. If you can't take the randomness factor and luck involved with PvP and the fact that some people will always use "cheap" builds to win, then get out of PvP now. Cuz all the rest of us will ever hear is you complaining about this build or that skill or this profession combination or blah blah blah. Play PvP, accept your defeats (no matter how cheap the other team is), relish your victories, and try to have fun instead of sitting around complaining about what it is you're suppose to be enjoying. And if for some reason you can never enjoy it, then why keep playing it? /nuff said

Tired, then just stop, wow, it's like an epiphany for you I assume...no progress came out of all of this, just bickering. It's obvious that you are not a constant player of PvP, and the people that are will combat you. Do not make a serious critique over something you may know only 1% about.

As for the rest...this topic is now a disgrace, if I were wyat, I'd almost feel embarrassed about making this topic because of the ignorance involved with some of the remarks.

He asked a question, got a few answers, some constructive additions...DONE, no drawn out bullshit.

I think this needs closed

11/03/07 02:57

Evil Geek

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/18/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

QUOTE

I think this needs closed

No I don't think it does, it may be seen as close to flaming but IMO its just a heated argument.

What it does highlight to me and I pray they don't make the same mistake with GW2 , skills that are made for PvE and PvP by a primary PvP player (thats what I get the impression izzy is) are going to get changed when the meta in PvP gets stale without as much thought about impact on the PvE players who love the skill that is being nerfed, leading to what we see here much dischord between the two sides and on occasion a mass exodus of PvE players when an attribute or skill set gets nerfed. Keep the skills seperate (happened late in the game with GW1 with the introduction of PvE only skills). The PvE skills like Pain Inverter can be ridiculously overpowered but it doesn't matter because NPC foes don't whinge back :)

I'm always happy to adapt when I see changes but to the casual PvE player who doesnt take it seriously and cant be bothered to change its like a shot in the foot, its a free to play game so no big deal to stop playing because your favourite fun build gets nerfed. Weve seen it alot on these forums.

PvP and PvE two completely different mind sets and styles of play - more specific skills for each rather than introducing skills that will hopefully balance between the two until someone finds something that stunts creativity in PvP. I hope GW2 will be less likely to cause so much hate between the 2 communities.

• Guild Wars: Mutants [MU] • Age of Conan: Ampian Forerunners •

11/03/07 03:23

zzaman

Posts: 1
Joined: 05/27/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

I agree with you Zephyr but you need to keep the ranting to a minimum otherwise people don't finish reading what you wrote. Btw if someone told me to "shut up" I might fly off the handle as well. At least you didn't get the big picture of the word FAIL. I saw that one the other day on another thread and really wondered if this site is worth visiting. Rules never apply equally to those of lesser standing . Now if only I could buy gameamp credit online somewhere.. ebay ftw!!

11/03/07 03:27

Txen_Viong

Posts: 7
Joined: 01/01/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Izzy's Balancing Plans

I am reminded of this little quote:

"Dear game mods,

Paper is overpowered, scissors is fine.

Sincerely, Rock."

Yes, only a little bit of relevance but still had to post it sometime. >>

11/03/07 03:49

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