GameAmp: My Willpower Thoughts...

Forum >> Archetype Discussions >> Tanker >> My Willpower Thoughts...

User

Message

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

My Willpower Thoughts...

Ok. So I've gotten my Willpower tank up to level 15. Here's my current build.

Comments to follow.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Level 17 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mind Over Body -- EndRdx-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(3), ResDam-I:50(3)
Level 1: Bash -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(13)
Level 2: High Pain Tolerance -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(5), ResDam-I:50(5)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- Ksmt-ToHit+:30(A)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(9), Heal-I:50(9), Heal-I:50(11), Taunt-I:50(11), Taunt-I:50(13)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I:50(A)
Level 14: Jawbreaker -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(15), Dmg-I:50(15), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(17)
Level 16: Super Jump -- ULeap-Jump:50(A)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 20: [Empty]
Level 22: [Empty]
Level 24: [Empty]
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:[list][/list]

CODE

| Copy & Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

|MHDz;1749;487;652;|

>-KEE$UOVS`,AN\!\A]Z'S*8DOR%G8IE1?:12Y&U9\T64F.Q'-@*M@&\"?OLDA8ZSENYV'P*#R:-7+TE

1SD;UW5H:^:#ZH>GT.W@KE@N[E?NFLCNIOZM^N7AL#H=C]T/U]E'V-UM9*?M1/ZE>:6._*'EL]-Z^[W

2EY*$-[*XQ6@V#O3LT^R=C;_O*-)7?-QC5_UHNP\";Q`Y99]T'7]_5/QQSG3CC_E'[%W:MA+5M/A1@IF

Z&)74V&B>76W5:5U[#LRH_(DEFW;O=!6+Z\"`!,`VB'G9FB5

<;MNTY@W7L?2'>[8:=!MNSKHV,4

/IC$#CQ='O)RS7Z&2@\"#&2K&,9%/BU'<2AO55?^M.NE;U3;C\[M.I/7I]\"M-EN!H'A'ED,_W'Q=&^#-

]6>&X(&5\"04S\"E8$Y!*A&G$G%!0OK(=;PI^O/_//_

\BX`J*,_P2&T^#E^5<12,'BG\DY9AA3C(!18&08.<8\"X^@L,%E\D:'@:,%Q*\>M'\"TYIN*8.NK'C<4(

1H<28XYQN?@-&<(]?P``

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

12/04/07 11:19

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

My impressions:

* Herds very well. As long as there's no elemental damage involved. Damned, Outcast Bosses, things like that cause some problems. Smash/Lethal/Psi are no problem whatsoever. Arachnos are mostly pushovers, Trolls are the BEST choice for enemies.

* Damage is an issue. I actually skipped my travel power at 14 because quite frankly, I didn't have enough damage dealing ability. I had my inital Mace attack, Sands of Mu and Blackwand. The problem is, the first 7 powers in the primary Willpower set are REALLY necessary. To the point where you should get them as soon as you can. Usually I suggest not bothering with Passive Defenses until later in life, but the Passive defense (High Pain Tollerance) is too good to pass up because of the +HP total. You MAY be able to pass on Fast Healing for a little while for an extra attack, but it's a tough call.

* Downtime is minimal. One of the best things about this set that no other Tanker set has...Quick Recovery. The tanker attacks are SO endurance intensive. The addition of Quick Recovery sets off the toggles and attack costs nicely. Give it 2 extra slots, slot it up relatively quickly with your 3 Endurance Mods.

City of Heroes/Villains
Onion - L50 - Katana/Super Reflexes/Body Mastery Scrapper
Scotch Bonnet Girl - L50 - Fire Aura/Fire Melee/Pyre Mastery Tanker
RonJ73 - L50 - Stone/Energy Aura Brute
Aurora Australis - L50 - Willpower/Energy Melee Tanker

12/04/07 11:25

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Heh... I made a Will/SS tank to try it out and I'm loving it. Damage isn't my problem, I figure I'll leave that for my scrapper buddy and anyone else I pick up (see my screenies?). Only got it to lvl 9 though, and a build I plan on following leaves me with only 2 attacks until a hearty lvl 28, but I figure survival first. I'll do no good for the team if I keel over because I don't have a power that could've helped.

On the survival side, have you though of the Leadership Manuvers, and Fighing Weave? I'm not saying to change you're early list, but to pick them up soon, especially Manuvers. They provite mele/ranged def that would cover a piece of the desired element attacks. 6-slotted Manuvers should give a rough ~11% def, not sure about Weave, but it should add up nicely.

Back to that aggro... yeah. Rise to the Challenge (RttC) acts alot like Chilling Embrace (CE), I'd swear that it was just a copy of it. Another option to up the youre survival is to place acc debuff in that skill, reduce their acc and they won't hit you as much. I think,with a Quick Recovery and Stamina combo ought to give you enough to slot RttC with both acc debuff and heals without End killing youre attacks. Probably wouldn't reccomend this if you're attacking alot untill you grab Stamina. I'm not sure, but I don't think you need taunt slotted in it, it has no acc check and updates as fast as CE, and Taunt is only useful if they get outside you're PbAoE cause the updates would autto-aggro them continually.

I'm not that sure though, probably because I teamed with another tank, but taunt might be needed in it. The baddies seemed to swap between the 3 of us frequently, well, until I leveled to their level. Mybe that's it. Its still odd... my missions seemed to auto-adjust the diff, placing all the enemies allways a level ahead of me. Could it be the devs' plan to compensate for how effctive this set is on a same-level basis?

Big Chill is a conscranker: he conrols a mob so they do nothing, scraps a target till they can't stand, and tanks what's left till the job's done.

Dive in, have fun, and think about it later.

Do not pray for challenges to equal your strength, but for strength to equal your challenges.

12/04/07 12:47

bigspeer

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/22/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

QUOTE

* Damage is an issue. I actually skipped my travel power at 14 because quite frankly, I didn't have enough damage dealing ability. I had my inital Mace attack, Sands of Mu and Blackwand. The problem is, the first 7 powers in the primary Willpower set are REALLY necessary. To the point where you should get them as soon as you can. Usually I suggest not bothering with Passive Defenses until later in life, but the Passive defense (High Pain Tollerance) is too good to pass up because of the +HP total. You MAY be able to pass on Fast Healing for a little while for an extra attack, but it's a tough call.

Low damage is an issue for all tanks until mid-teens/low 20s. Even though the passive is a +HP power, I'd say put it off until 16ish regardless. Tanks really can't tank in the full essence of tanking until then anyway. I remember a thread on the OBs saying that tanks really flourish once the second round of DOs/first round of SOs become available.
Even if you pick up another attack, especially Mace, your endurance consumption takes such a big spike that you'll be tired quickly anyways.

But you're an old head and probably already knew all that anyway, Ron.

My name is Jean Claude Van Damme and I dance for you...

12/04/07 14:19

dougnukem

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/21/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Personally, I'd go with Fast Healing, and the passive with the +HP, as the ability to stack regen with RttC will be more noticable in the lower levels than a TO or unslotted Res power. As far as attacks are concerned, I always go with more attacks early on with my tanks. I know I will at the very least, use one respec, to adjust my power choices later on. And also the fact that low level tanking is a myth more than a reality, as you end up struggling to be a meat shield any more than someone who pops a few lucks and dives in. I also use attacks and their effect on gauntlet alot more than other folks, so YMMV.

Official Global Heroics Boozer
Lifetime Member of the National Potstirrer Inc.
*I am an AoE addict! *

12/04/07 15:26

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Cool. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

My endurance is a little bit of an issue, even with Quick Recovery. Mace is a really endurance intensive set and I'm using the vet attacks which are really endurance heavy as well.

On the plus side, one of the 2 attacks I have is Jawbreaker which is a nice Superior damage attack. So that's a happy mark there.

I don't intend on taking the leadership pool at all, it's not worth it for tankers. I got Kismet: +6 Acc on a drop last night and slotted it in my Combat Jumping, so that helps more than Tactics would for me anyway...although ONLY for me. I believe Tactics only gives a +5% when a tank runs it, though I could be mistaken.

I'm definitely considering the fighting pool. Boxing/Tough/Weave. Though I might not be able to fit Weave, I'm hoping I can.

12/05/07 05:33

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Leaderships, as best I know, all follow the same rule:

Defenders get 12%
Controllers get 10 %
All others get 7%

Even though it is only 7% for a tank, 6 slotting Manuvers yeilds ~11%, and Tactics ~13%. They are good additions if you want to max your def and acc as much as possible. Manuvers is mele/ranged, and as such covers anything that falls into that category. Tactics bing a To Hit buff skips the regular def ratings, including Manuvers, and is actually worth far more than you'd think. Because of that, the base acc of all your attacks are higher, increasing all their attacks. I'll agree that the 7% isn't worth grabbing Assault. But trust me here, that ~11% def is rather noticeable, even though Tactic might not be taken, Manuvers is certainly worht it. Especially for those elemental attacks you don't want to hit. If you can spare the attack slots, Weave would certainly be another nice addition, but it sounds like you'd need your end far more than this power.

As for Leaderships, they would really shine if more than just 10% of ppl take it IMO, that stack would be quite worth the cost. But, to each his own.

12/05/07 10:59

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

I dunno. I just see them as a waste of power slots that I already need for other things. The build is extremely tight as it is.

12/05/07 14:41

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

QUOTE

I dunno. I just see them as a waste of power slots that I already need for other things. The build is extremely tight as it is.

Well, that's one problem I've got with that set too, my actual build has only 6 attack total, including brawl. Half of the attacks recharge ridiculously slow, and the other half aren't much on the damage side. But I can't just ignore the benifit of Fighting and Manuvers, I won't know till I get there, but I think my set will do just fine against most every opponent around. I still need to figure out Weave's def rating, but I think its around 20%, if that's the case, it'll be ~33% + ~11% for an impressive ~44% def vs all when slotted, well worth the cost IMO.

12/05/07 17:39

pathofwrath

Posts: 1
Joined: 06/02/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

QUOTE

I still need to figure out Weave's def rating, but I think its around 20%, if that's the case, it'll be ~33% + ~11% for an impressive ~44% def vs all when slotted, well worth the cost IMO.

Wrong. Weave has a base Defense of 5%. So 3 slotted with level 50 IOs it's 7.92%.

Path of Wrath - Storm/Elec/Elec Defender - 50
Miss Trinidad - Ill/Storm/Ice Controller - 50
Miss Cote d'Ivoire - Dark/Regen/Dark Scrapper - 50
Posey Punk - Grav/Kin/Stone Controller - 50
Mr. Azerbaijan - Kin/Psy Defender - 50
Laccolith - Earth/Rad Controller - 35
Geriatric Justice - Willpower/SS Tanker - 38

12/05/07 17:59

pathofwrath

Posts: 1
Joined: 06/02/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

QUOTE

Mids is telling me that Maneuvers on a Tank is 3.5%. Which means that (and I don't know why you'd do this) 6-slotted it's 5.95%. And it's a heavy end user to pair with Mace.

12/05/07 18:05

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Currently level 18. I took Superjump at 16 and Heightened Senses at 18.

Haven't really had a chance to play with Heightened Senses yet. I was doing a Rikti Raid.

Edited original post with current build including IO sets. Levels are not exact.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

12/05/07 19:11

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Okay, I might stand corrected, but I don't believe it. When I dropped Manuvers to grab Horafrost for my Ice tank the damage was a hell of alot more than just a relative ~6%. Weave's 5% 'might' sound right, but I've never played with it.

But why not 6-slott it? There is no relative way to trule reap those benifits unless you do, and the whole point of getting them is for their benifits. They are Pool Powers, and they drain an insaine ammount of end, 3 end redux, 3 buff. Endurance hog or not, it is worth it for the elemental def for WP. Its even worth it for anyone else too, the team's survival depends on the survival of everyone that's a part of it. If everyone on the team has it, the team has nothing to worry about.

Never played with a mace before, so I don't know its relative end needs. If it really is that much, then these skills might not be worth it, but then again, you might wish you had them. Besides, you're a tank, focus on your own survival first before you worry about attacking. You'll do no good for the team, or yourself if you keel over in the middle of a fight.

12/06/07 16:34

pathofwrath

Posts: 1
Joined: 06/02/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

I find that 1 EndRed provides enough endurance relief for me in the leadership powers. Drops them from 0.4 eps to 0.32 eps.

That notwithstanding, I don't see Tanks with Leadership as being a good investment of power selection or slotting.

12/06/07 17:33

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

I can usderstand a bit of that, but I run with 6 toggles in a fight:
Frozen Armor (2)
Wet Ice (2)
Glacial Armor (2)
Chilling Embrace (3)
Manuvers (3)
Tactics (3)
To maximize my end, I need all of them slotted heavily for (end), I can't do with them draining that heavily. I need my recharge when there aren't enough opponents for Energy Absorption to do an effective job. Because no one else runs leaderships, and I need all the advantages I can get, def in Manuvers and the acc bonus in Tactics, I need to have them. Well, sure need is relative, but they are extremely useful.

Besides, why not have it? Sure just looking at it, they aren't that impressive, but the best way for anyone, especially a team, to ensure their survival is to not get hit. Even if it is a tank taking it, it still is a noticeable beniifit. If only more would have it will it truly shine... Anyway, since Weave requires 3 power selections, Manuvers is a better option since it can be taken up all by itself. The slotting is to make it as benificial as possible. Sure you can do with less, but 3 slots for def should be a given.

12/06/07 19:51

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

QUOTE

Besides, why not have it?

Simple answer, there are better options for a tank. Let the controllers and defenders handle buffing the rest of the team, that's their job. Instead of 6 slotting tactics, you can spend a couple slots in your attacks and slot some endurance reducers and accuracies in them.

12/06/07 21:01

bigspeer

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/22/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

QUOTE

Besides, why not have it? Sure just looking at it, they aren't that impressive, but the best way for anyone, especially a team, to ensure their survival is to not get hit. Even if it is a tank taking it, it still is a noticeable beniifit. If only more would have it will it truly shine... Anyway, since Weave requires 3 power selections, Manuvers is a better option since it can be taken up all by itself. The slotting is to make it as benificial as possible. Sure you can do with less, but 3 slots for def should be a given.

Yes, if a few people on the team get Maneuvers it's a great buff that stacks nicely, but if you're consistently getting on teams where you're the only one with Maneuvers, economically, it doesn't make sense to take it and run it constantly. The cost/benefit return is so low that you're actually hurting yourself and your team.

Weave does take 3 powers to get, but especially for a defensive based tank, it could mean all the difference in the world. Plus you should take tough before that, so when something does get thru, it doesnt hurt as much.

Now I just want to point something out:

QUOTE

but the best way for anyone, especially a team, to ensure their survival is to not get hit.

The best way to keep your team from not getting hit is not to increase their defense by just that little bit, but rather to increase yours every way possible and keep all aggro on you! If they aren't being attacked because you have the attention of everyone in the room, they don't need any defense!

My name is Jean Claude Van Damme and I dance for you...

12/07/07 06:35

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

One thing to remember about tanking...which I'm sure Big will agree to 100%:

The power Taunt isn't the only way to keep aggro. Your Aura (Chilling Embrace, Icicles, Blazing Aura, Invinc, Mudpots, RttC) is a HUGE aggro grabber. Your attacks can all be slotted with Taunt Durations to add to the effectiveness of their aggro control ability. Heck, because of Gauntlet, I even use my Apprentice Charm and Blackwand for ranged aggro control since I don't have Taunt in my build yet. I herd and still keep my team safe without even HAVING Taunt because my aura is slotted with Taunt Durations.

Taunt will make me that much MORE effective.

So dropping the Leadership pool for more attacks increases your team's survivability and your OWN quite a bit more.

I'm not just talking out of my tush here. I've got 50 levels of fire tank experience as well as quite a few levels of miscellaneous tank experience as well as 50 levels of SR Scrapper experience behind me, as well as 36 months of gameplay experience. I do know a thing or two about the melee types. :)

12/07/07 14:06

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Either my internet really sucks, or this site screwed up bad. I just lost an extremely long and great explination on this...

Since I'm not gonna rewrite it all, I'll just sum it up:

I've herd that Ladership arguement for ages now. Because of that argument, I never se anyone, including controllers and defenders take it. There is allways a 'better' option they will take. So since I have better odds of being struck by lightning twice, at the same time, in the same spot, I take it.

The argument for its effectiveness is a moot point. Because it can help the team, I see it as a good choice for any archetype despite how well it does its job. The fact that you are helping the team in more ways than just attacking or tanking, or whatever you do is far more valueable than selecting powers based on how it can help you help the team. Sure, some powers in some sets just must be taken, but it doens't mean that these Leadership powers should be ignored. There is no point in helping yourself if the team is keeling over all around you.

Sure, Taunt makes since. I'm not arguing that, if my Will/SS set works half as well as I think, I'll probably grab it. I probably won't need to, but I'm not arguing for how good Taunt is, its great. But for my specialized conscranker set, wasting that power doesn't make sense. What I was argung for here was for you to take Manuvers to help your team more than a power the you either rarely use, or recharges so slow it isn't of that much use. Taunt can help, but what about when being a tank, attacks, and taunts can't get the aggro off a teammate? Ranged attacks, aggro max, AoEs anyone? Help the team by increacing their survival, along with your own. In some situations keeping that defender or controller alive to help keep you alive is far more important than staying alive all by yourself.

Look, I'm not arguing on how experienced you are. You are clearly more experienced here than me. But I've been plaing this game for over 2 years now, and I think I know how to play it well. I've been plaing games like this, and many other off and on most of my life. So I think how I see this all this stack up hold some merit. The best way to ensure that a team can perform well is to actually help the team. Sure, individual archetypes all help their teams in their own way, but Leaderships have an advantage in being able to help everry teammate around you. Regardless on how well it works, or how many others have it, the fact that it helps the entire team makes it worth it.

I don't know if any of this can possibly sway your choice, but I think someone's gotta argue for it because that old argument is making it powers that are far to hard to find. It is a good choice, and it is helpful, so it should be taken into consideration with more weight to it.

Damnit... now I know I'm forgetting something else...

12/07/07 18:24

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

I'll argue for the Leadership Pool until I'm blue in the face...when it's being used by an Archetype that can make effective use of it. Controllers, Defenders, Masterminds. Actually, I won't make a Mastermind without keeping room for Assault, Manuvers and Tactics. Masterminds and Controllers can make good, effective, use of it.

However, for a Tank, Maneuvers is just simply not worth it. The tiny amount of defense it offers gives extremely minimal damage mitigation, even on a team of 8. Tactics MIGHT be worth it if you didn't have to get Assault or Maneuvers to get it. But honestly, at higher levels, if the teammates haven't slotted to get their accuracy up, a couple percent aren't going to matter.

Your damage mitigation is going to be way more effective by using attacks to keep all the bad guys focused on you.

Honestly, play however you want, it's your subion fee. However, if you want an honest opinion on the effectiveness of the leadership pool, I've given it to you. It's my opinion that grabbing a couple attacks, Taunt included, will be far more effective at mitigating team damage than Manuvers and Tactics.

12/08/07 06:23

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Well, its good to know someone takes it. But I'm still arguing that Leaderships should be taken for any AT. Especially Manuvers, small ammount or not, it is a worthwhile skill. That, and I doubt all those really low-percentage values ppl put out for it, I just don't buy it. When I don't run Manuvers, it is really noticeable. As for Tactics, on my conscranker, the main attacks I need are all max acc already, so its there to just 'insure' the hits. That, and it seems to work quite well helping my other single acc slotted attacks, that's why I like it. I'm not arguing Tactics for it for everyone, though everyone would appreciat it. I'm arguing Manuvers as a good idea, heck all of the Leaderships are good, but Manuvers should really be a more common skill.

But as for that Willpower tank... there are always going to be situations that all your attacks and taunts won't do any good for the team when they actually get hit. Sure, keeping the aggro on you to save the team makes perfect sense, I'm not arguing that. Heck, that's how my conscranker runs, prevents a group of opponents from even engaging my teammates to save them (seen my 'Conscranking Crey' screnie?). But there will inevitably be situations where helping the team with Manuvers will be a much appreciated help. Arch Villians and Monsters comes to mind, If everyone has Manuvers, Giant Monsters would be rather fun to take on with the whole group of ppl benifiting and assisting everyone else.

Besides, I think they mislabled the powers anyway. They are far more like team-cooperation related powers, not really specific leadership benifits. If they were, they should've made them a hard to get, and more benificial powers.

12/08/07 11:14

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Take a look at this site:

http://coh.redtomax.com/data/

Click on Powerset Quantification.
Select Pool powers.
Click on Manuvers.

(This data has all been verified and reverified.)

I was actually mistaken. For heroes, Defenders get the best bonus from Manuvers and that's only 3.5%.

Tankers, Blasters and Scrappers get 2.275%.

Controllers get 2.625%.

2.275 is practically nothing. You're mitigating 2.275% of the incoming damage...which is minimal at best. That means of every 50 attacks to land on your teammates...roughly 1 will miss. How is that helpful when you can use that slot for Taunt making it so those attacks hit YOU instead of them?

Your giant monster/AV example doesn't really work either. A good tank, going against an AV with a team, should put it in a situation where the AV/Monster rarely, if ever, takes a shot at anyone on the team except you. That's why you need plenty of attacks...to keep it focused on YOU.

12/08/07 11:48

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

Okay, I know, I get that, I got that, ages ago. I just don't belive that. When I run Manuvers I get hit far more frequently that that 1 out of 50 odds you're giving me. Its more like 1 out of 10, or better, depends what. When I run it, with an Ice Armor, 'roughly' 1 out of every 10 psionic-related or other, not ice def covered attack misses. Those that are related to my ice def almost allways misses. The only standing exception to that is radiation related powers, it has a chance to skip any form of defense. Come to think of it, that's probably why those Renegades in RWZ give me so much trouble. Anyway, I just don't buy that arguement. Besides, even if it is that supposedly tiny ammound, it's that supposedly tiny ammount that misses that would normally hit you, and you're teammates. That one miss could've been that hit that would've floored you or a teammate.

I never said dropping taunt for this, taunt is a perfect addition to keep that aggro on you. Keep it. I said to drop one of those attacks off that list of yours that you rarely use. In my experience, there is never enough time to use all of your attacks, they would all easily recharge before you get through that list. So plan on the good ones you really want, and use that extra power you found for something like Manuvers to add to everythinng else. The only probable exception that I'm sure of is Stone/Stone, bcause of that -speed. I've run with Ice through broadsowrds, the only two I havn't used a comparible version of are mace and axe. Its entirely possible those are also exceptions to my experience, I just don't know. But I think its entirely possibe that there is one probable power you rarely use that could potentially be put to, IMO, better use for you and your team. That's what I'm arguing for. Not the value, cause I think that value is screwed up. But that fact that it is useful in its own way can make it a good choice.

Heck I should probably just give up, I ain't gonna change your mind.

12/08/07 12:31

pyro master

Posts: 0
Joined: 07/21/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

in response to this leadership argument, i think i have a signifigant thought. bigchill, the numbers on maneuvers are actually that small, but the 1/50 missed number is wrong. the tohit of enemies is 50% if they are at your lvl. that would make 1/25 attacks miss if maneuvers was a soid 2%, which maneuvers is slightly higher. with slotting on it, that goes to roughly 1/15 attacks missing.

also, consider this. lets say big can get a defense of 40%. if it goes up say 5%, his chance of survivability actually doubles. heres why: with 40% defense, the chance of getting hit is 10%, then with the extra 5%, it cuts the enemy chance of hitting in half, because the hit chance is now only 5%, rather than 10.

so yes, if big was a resistance based tank, maneuvers would be practically worthless, only avoiding 1/25 more attacks than normal. but since his defense is already so high, the smaller amounts start counting more and more, which is why big notices such a difference in his getting hit.

of course, big probably isnt fighting ONLY those even lvl minions, but the main point still stands, that the closer he gets to the basice def cap, the more the little numbers on his def start to add up better.

***edited for typos

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

12/08/07 13:09

BigChill

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: My Willpower Thoughts...

QUOTE

Aw hell, all that wasted time trying to get edumencated...

Damnit, I should've known that. That's how I should've explained it as a good idea for Willpower, the actual values rate well with the average def the set grants, giving it a better than its basic decent chance. Not to mention how it helps the team.

Damnit. It makes so much sense now. Damnit. Its a good thing I don't own a gun or I might just shoot myself over this. Damnit. Aw hell, my life is just crappy today.

12/08/07 13:25

Don't Forget! - Rate users posts to reward or demerit their posts with Credibility!