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Tango-Bravo
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Looking for some info on the stealth pool in pvp.
1) How effective is invisibility? Pros, cons and what to expect.
2) Opinions on flight vs. SS as a blaster looking to snipe. (Don't forget stealth active)
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| 01/01/08 20:59 |
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gambit4007
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| QUOTE | Looking for some info on the stealth pool in pvp.
1) How effective is invisibility? Pros, cons and what to expect.
2) Opinions on flight vs. SS as a blaster looking to snipe. (Don't forget stealth active) |
don't really have input on the stealth question, but i would recommend SUPER JUMP over the other 2 for a travel power in PvP. Both Flight and Super Speed do have slowdown when you are engaged in a fight. Fight is slowed to Hover and Super Speed is slowed to normal run(or slower) when fighting and will take a few seconds to resume to top speed, which could mean the difference between getting away in the nick of time or kissing pavement in PvP.
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| 01/02/08 10:03 |
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Phedre_D
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The biggest problem with invisibility is that you can't use any of your attack powers when invisible. You have to swicth to stealth first before getting a shot off, and when in stealth you could be seen by most players, I think.
Flight is the slowest travel power, I would not pick it for an pvp-er. The combo of SS and SJ I thought is the preferred mode of travel for most pvp-ers. But since I don't pvp I might be wrong on that.
***FEELS KINDA NAKED WITHOUT A SIGGIE***
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| 01/02/08 10:21 |
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robot mind
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you right d.
sj is the way to go.
I'm not a altoholic...no really i only have 1000+ toons...thats not..really...never mind.
Ninja Strike!!!
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| 01/02/08 10:36 |
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Tango-Bravo
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I've seen other posts talking about the stealth pool being easily seen in pvp. Why is this? Is there anything to improve its use? Slotting of any sorts? That would make the pool mostly irrelevant it seems. What kind of viability does concealment itself carry?
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 01/02/08 11:35 |
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robot mind
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if you have Super speed it helps if you have phase shift,steamy mist,grant inv (put on you by someone else you cant put it on your self),the dark armor set for scrappers has something,ahhh thats about it.
sorry but i dont even have a lvl 50 so i dont pvp yet (you dont need a lvl 50 to pvp but i want to get a toon up to 50 before I pvp).
I'm not a altoholic...no really i only have 1000+ toons...thats not..really...never mind.
Ninja Strike!!!
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| 01/02/08 12:15 |
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Electro
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I am no expert when it comes to PvP, but I believe stealth / invisibility, as well as perception bonuses, are measured in feet. In other words, you start out with a certain range of perception and you are able to see that far. If someone is stealthed, you need to be closer than normal to them in order to see them. If you have a +perception buff, you are able to see further, possibly negating the effects of someone's stealthiness. I have seen the actual numbers associated with various stealth/invisible/hide powers, as well as +perception powers somewhere on the OB's, but cannot remember where exactly at the moment. It has been awhile.
To my knowledge, there is no slotting you can do to a stealth power that will make it more stealthy. Same holds for +perception powers. Also, IIRC, the stealth factor of Superspeed is turned off in PvP zones.
Regarding the Concealment Pool, I think Stealth especially benefits Stalkers as it stacks with their Hide power. Hero-side, Stealth does not stack and activating it merely replaces any other stealth/invis power you have.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 01/02/08 12:19 |
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gambit4007
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| QUOTE | | I've seen other posts talking about the stealth pool being easily seen in pvp. Why is this? Is there anything to improve its use? Slotting of any sorts? That would make the pool mostly irrelevant it seems. What kind of viability does concealment itself carry? |
this may help,special attn to Phedre_D's comments. slotting will always help..keep in mind you opponent's slotting will help them see you... http://cityofheroes.gameamp.com/coh/viewPo...!powerView=true
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| 01/02/08 12:26 |
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bytekhan
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| QUOTE | The biggest problem with invisibility is that you can't use any of your attack powers when invisible. You have to swicth to stealth first before getting a shot off, and when in stealth you could be seen by most players, I think.
Flight is the slowest travel power, I would not pick it for an pvp-er. The combo of SS and SJ I thought is the preferred mode of travel for most pvp-ers. But since I don't pvp I might be wrong on that. |
My controller has superior invisibility and you can attack while invisible although you'll then become visible (but you still get some DEF+ though). My blaster on the other hand has plain ol' invisibility and you've got to turn it off before attacking.
In PvP, although flight the slowest travel power, I like flight/invisibility for both my controller and blaster. With my blaster I like to hover high above the battle field looking for enemy targets. Then its PB, BU, snipe, etc.. With my controller, I fly a little closer to the action since he's harder to spot and I need to be closer for mezzes etc...
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 01/02/08 13:32 |
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Tango-Bravo
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Thanks for the link. Forgot about that section of the site. Another question: Can Stealth be active at the same time as Invisibility? Not looking for a stack so much as the convenience of dropping Invis. pre-attack and retaining Stealths benefits without having to activate it.
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| 01/02/08 13:37 |
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Electro
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | I've seen other posts talking about the stealth pool being easily seen in pvp. Why is this? Is there anything to improve its use? Slotting of any sorts? That would make the pool mostly irrelevant it seems. What kind of viability does concealment itself carry? |
this may help,special attn to Phedre_D's comments. slotting will always help..keep in mind you opponent's slotting will help them see you... http://cityofheroes.gameamp.com/coh/viewPo...!powerView=true |
Slotting is only going to help your defense or endurance usage, in the case of a stealth power, or your to-hit or endurance usage, in the case of a +perception power. Neither can be slotted increase the stealthiness, or +perception aspect of the power.
And, no, stealth and invisibility cannot be active at the same time. Activating one will instantly shut off the other. You could, however, come up with a bind or macro that would turn invisibility off and attack with one click of a button.
FOUND IT!! Here's the link I mentioned earlier with the numbers for various stealth and +perception powers. The numbers are old, and somewhat in dispute, but it will give you an idea of how the mechanics work.
http://boards.cityofvillains.com/showflat....=0&fpart=1&vc=1
Also, when I said you could not slot for +perception, I forgot there is an IO proc out there that grants +perception, but I forget what it is. Checking on that...FOUND IT!! Rectified Reticle (a To-Hit IO set) contains a +perception proc. Also, each of the travel powers can be slotted with a +stealth IO proc.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 01/02/08 14:11 |
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Tango-Bravo
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Well, my blaster is 22 (AR/EM) and was built for pvp/snipe fun at low lvl for now. At least MY take on it. I have respecs available and am considering trading a few. Just things I overlooked. I accidentaly got Stun when I meant to grab Bean Bag (had the stun effect on my mind and hurried through training). And may go with SJ not only for the travel in pvp but to escape to harder to track places more quickly. Went with SS for hasten at first. Does SS not add to stealth in some way? And is it the same, if true, for SJ as well (at least while activated)? Besides, through Bloody Bay, at least, and maybe Sirens; +perception is not available correct?
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 01/02/08 20:41 |
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pyro master
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| QUOTE | | Well, my blaster is 22 (AR/EM) and was built for pvp/snipe fun at low lvl for now. At least MY take on it. I have respecs available and am considering trading a few. Just things I overlooked. I accidentaly got Stun when I meant to grab Bean Bag (had the stun effect on my mind and hurried through training). And may go with SJ not only for the travel in pvp but to escape to harder to track places more quickly. Went with SS for hasten at first. Does SS not add to stealth in some way? And is it the same, if true, for SJ as well (at least while activated)? Besides, through Bloody Bay, at least, and maybe Sirens; +perception is not available correct? |
if i were you, i wouldnt take beanbag or stun, because neither do much dmg, and the stuns would require staking on any serious pvper. you would be better off getting your protection powers in, or getting more high dmg attacks.
and as for +perception powers, all ATs can get tactics by the time they hit BB, and stalkers can get +perception with /nin, and brutes with /dark. so there wont be a lot of ppl with +perception, but there are some who will
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| 01/02/08 22:16 |
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Tango-Bravo
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Was going for Bean Bag for the minor crowd control. I didn't have much to choose from in the high 20's. Not for my build goal anyhow. I may rework my pools. Will post something soon thats more final.
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| 01/02/08 23:39 |
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DocterPink
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Super Speed has a natural stealth bonus to it, but its only stealth. Stealth can be seen by anyone up close, but you're invisible when seen from far away. Mixing SS with Stealth is essentially invisibility without the inability to attack. No one can see you at all without some kind of Perception bonus. Invisibility does the same thing, but you can't fight.
Another thing about stealthy-ness. When you attack, you're automatically lowered to Stealth level protection, meaning the enemy can see you up close. Since you're a blaster wanting to snipe enemies from far away, this shouldn't be too much of a problem unless the target has some +Perception.
As mentioned above, Flight and Super Speed slow down a few seconds after you attack with it on. However, if you attack and then turn on your travel I believe it will go full speed. Swift with some Flight speed enhances and Fly 3 slotted with Flight speed can be pretty fast actually. Super Speed is great for speed but it has no vertical capabilites so you might wanna take another one of the travel powers like SJ or TP. SJ and TP have no slow down after you attack so you might want to consider those for PvPing.
Phew, that was a lot of typing. Hope that helps you out some! :)
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| 01/03/08 18:09 |
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Solarix
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superspeed is great with stealth to make invisibility, but only in pve. you need something else to help you in pvp.
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| 01/03/08 18:24 |
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Tango-Bravo
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| QUOTE | | superspeed is great with stealth to make invisibility, but only in pve. you need something else to help you in pvp. |
1) Like SJ? I've been using the jump pack to aid my travel with SS. If I can get away with the SS/invis route to get me to a vantage point un-seen im golden.
2) Any added stealth with SJ like SS? Have been enjoying the ability to stand right next to mobs plus spraying metal with Hasten.
3) Bloody/Sirens most don't have a +perc correct? Unless Tactics.
4) Is there a base stealth bonus with SS/SJ by themselves excluding the use of concealment powers?
5) I know the Leadership pool grants little for a Blaster. Is the +perc in Tactics worth picking it up if I have a conservative enough build? I really need to post my build, I suppose, before thats known.
6) I know you take on whatever max lvl Bloody/Sirens etc. upon entering. But if you are above 25 and are taken down to 25 (like Bloody Bay) do you lose the use of your +25 abilities?
Sorry for so many questions. Thanks a heap for all the help!
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 01/05/08 02:19 |
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pyro master
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| QUOTE | | 1) Like SJ? I've been using the jump pack to aid my travel with SS. If I can get away with the SS/invis route to get me to a vantage point un-seen im golden. |
no, sj does not offer any added stealth as far as i know of
| QUOTE | | 2) Any added stealth with SJ like SS? Have been enjoying the ability to stand right next to mobs plus spraying metal with Hasten. |
again, no stealth at all is added from sj
| QUOTE | | 3) Bloody/Sirens most don't have a +perc correct? Unless Tactics. |
for the most part in bb, that is correct, but there will be a decent amount of players in sirens with +perc
| QUOTE | | 4) Is there a base stealth bonus with SS/SJ by themselves excluding the use of concealment powers? |
in ss, yes, it is basically stealth in pve, not sure in pvp. but it works a lot less when you are standing still, so moving around with it will add to the stealth effect
| QUOTE | | 5) I know the Leadership pool grants little for a Blaster. Is the +perc in Tactics worth picking it up if I have a conservative enough build? I really need to post my build, I suppose, before thats known. |
if you plan on focusing in pvp, i would say it is highly reccamended you have some form of +perc, and tactics is well worth it
| QUOTE | | 6) I know you take on whatever max lvl Bloody/Sirens etc. upon entering. But if you are above 25 and are taken down to 25 (like Bloody Bay) do you lose the use of your +25 abilities? |
yes, you lose the abilities you obtained from lvl 26 and up in bb, and 31 and up when in sirens
| QUOTE | | Sorry for so many questions. Thanks a heap for all the help! |
no problem, thats what the site is for
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| 01/05/08 11:17 |
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Houston
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| QUOTE | | 1) How effective is invisibility? Pros, cons and what to expect. |
Invisibility is not necessarily helpful or useful at all in PvP. You can be seen by Villains with Perception and there is no possible way to fighting back unless toggled out of Invisibility.
| QUOTE | | 2) Opinions on flight vs. SS as a blaster looking to snipe. (Don't forget stealth active) Looking for some info on the stealth pool in pvp. |
I would have to Recommend Flight & Hover. Being in Melee range with a Stalker or brute would not be the brightest Idea. The Sky is your main defense aswell as your range.
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| 01/06/08 04:53 |
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Tango-Bravo
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| QUOTE | | nvisibility is not necessarily helpful or useful at all in PvP. You can be seen by Villains with Perception and there is no possible way to fighting back unless toggled out of Invisibility. |
Went to pvp for the first time even though I am a 20 month vet. I spent just over 3 hours of prime time in Bloody Bay. The trip has almost spoiled my taste for pvp regardless of being the first time. It is exactly as I assumed it would be. Although I felt confidant in my build, I cannot get over how ridiculous the stealth system fairs. Especially against stalkers. I feel like my character is now near worthless as he was built soley for pvp. Invisibility/Tactics, and i even kept SS just to try everything I could to measure up. So I get shot by spines-placated-ganked till I couldn't take it any longer. So I decided to hang out in front of the Hero base next to a +perc drone stacked onto my Tactics and run a lil test. MAYBE 3 minutes later another spiner pops (by pops I mean at his own will) just to my right. Same ole' song and dance. Heroes don't seem to have a counter for this. Does stealth stack onto Devices by chance? But devices would be a whole nother build and NOT be as sweet as blasting folks for 300+!
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| 01/06/08 17:22 |
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bytekhan
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | nvisibility is not necessarily helpful or useful at all in PvP. You can be seen by Villains with Perception and there is no possible way to fighting back unless toggled out of Invisibility. |
Went to pvp for the first time even though I am a 20 month vet. I spent just over 3 hours of prime time in Bloody Bay. The trip has almost spoiled my taste for pvp regardless of being the first time. It is exactly as I assumed it would be. Although I felt confidant in my build, I cannot get over how ridiculous the stealth system fairs. Especially against stalkers. I feel like my character is now near worthless as he was built soley for pvp. Invisibility/Tactics, and i even kept SS just to try everything I could to measure up. So I get shot by spines-placated-ganked till I couldn't take it any longer. So I decided to hang out in front of the Hero base next to a +perc drone stacked onto my Tactics and run a lil test. MAYBE 3 minutes later another spiner pops (by pops I mean at his own will) just to my right. Same ole' song and dance. Heroes don't seem to have a counter for this. Does stealth stack onto Devices by chance? But devices would be a whole nother build and NOT be as sweet as blasting folks for 300+! |
I can sympathize with you here. As a eng/eng blaster, my first experience in PvP was similar to yours. Constantly being "ganked" by stalkers. It almost made me want to stop PvPing altogether. However, the more I played, the better my tactics got. The one thing blaster have over most of the other archetypes is range. I still like invisibility in PvP zones even though Stalkers can still see me (they see everything as far as I know). By tossing in flight and constant movement and I don't get hit nearly as much as I did when I first started PvPing.
What's funny is that you'll hear Villains complain about "overpowered" blasters. Stick with PvPing for awhile and you'll definitely get better at it. You'll soon be doing some "ganking" of your own. :)
(Build Up...Uncloak...Snipe...fly in and unload EVERYTHING...recloak...repeat)
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| 01/07/08 10:44 |
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Achaix
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When I have been fighting in PvP, I have noticed that it was easier for me when I used stealth. I was able to fly up behind and use Aim/Rain of Fire/Fire Blast/Fire Breath and by then I would have them down to half HP or less in 3 sec.
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| 01/24/08 21:11 |
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Warron Peace
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Let the PvP addict step in.
SS does not have a stealth effect against other players. It can be used in zones to prevent attacks from NPC mobs, however.
The recommended PvP build for any player is Hasten/Super Speed, Combat Jumping/Super Jump/Acro if you don't have KB prot built in, Swift/Hurdle to open up Stamina, as Health does very little for you and the boosted unsuppressed movement speed is very helpful.
Beyond those power pool "requirements", most players will pick up Stimulant/Aid Self if they don't have a self heal built into their character. This is to reduce downtime in zones after a death, as well as to keep yourself alive. I also use it often during Arena matches after I've gotten a kill, to put myself up at top form for the next fight. Ten seconds of Phase for them is ten seconds for me to get back in fighting shape.
The power pool power, Invisibility does not allow you to affect other players/NPCs. You can still heal your self and activate other buffs, however, so it can be useful to buy yourself some time in between fights. Stealth for heroes is pretty effective in Bloody Bay and Siren's call, because outside of Tactics and built in perception powers, there are no extra perception buffs for villains. Read: Villains do not have an ally castable +perception buff available in either Bloody Bay or Siren's Call levels. This is a major imbalance that places Concealment powers of all types available to heroes, as well as +Stealth IOs in various travel powers, at a disproportionate advantage over villains. Expect this to be potentially changed in the future, as Ex Libris is working with the PvP community on the OBs to help change the imbalances between Factions and various Archetypes.
Any way, stealth powers can be pretty effective to most casual players, as other casual players will likely not have builds maximised for +perception. Face to Face, anything other than invisibility will be seen by opposing players, but having stealth effects can buy you some leeway room on means to sneak up on foes, by being outside their camera angle. I have a stealth IO in my combat jumping, and tend to maneuver myself in arena matches to get in close before popping BU/Aim and launching my alpha strike. It really can work, if you use it right and don't expect too much of it.
As for taking Fly, don't. There is a large abundance (unbalancing, in fact, and may be subject to change in the future) of -fly powers available. Most controller Immob powers have -fly, as does all forms of web grenade. Fly is too slow to keep up with players who have either or both of SS and SJ, and outside of sniping low health opponents, it has no real use in PvP. It is too situational, and too easy for most builds to counter. Certainly most FotM builds will have some form of counter to it.
W.P.
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| 01/25/08 00:06 |
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