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Solarix

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dark/WP

i have a dark melee/willpower scrapper, leveling pretty quickly. she is as of right now level 16 (i will move the asterisk according to her lvl), and i love the dark melee controllery aspects.

this is her current build, and what i plan to get:
1 - smite/high pain tolerance
2 - shadow maul
4 - mind over body
6 - touch of fear
8 - siphon life
10- indomitable will
12- air superiority
14- fly
16- rise to the challenge
18- dark consumption
20- quick recovery*
22- teleport foe
24- teleport
26- soul drain
28- heightened senses
30- team teleport
32- midnight grasp
35- resurgence
38- strength of will?
41- focused accuracy
44- laser beam eyes
47- energy torrent
48- recall friend

a few notes: this toon's concept is absorbing other people's powers, like rogue from x-men. she permanently absorbed Liberty Belle (another character of mine)'s strength and resistance, Night-Owl's flight ability, and will accidentally duplicate Arya's ability to create teleportation portals.

basically, i am looking for some advice on slotting dark melee and willpower, and if the powers i chose from the sets are good, and whether or not i should plan on getting strength of will.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/06/08 18:13

bold-lightning

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RE: dark/WP

I'd say you could skip resurgence for Hasten, will get your good attacks and Soul Drain back up quicker, and drop Energy Torrent for Conserve power for longer battles against tough AVs. Possibly work in Aid Self somewhere too, just as an emergency heal that doesn't need a target like Siphon Life.

Virtue:
*Titan of Granite: lvl 50 Tanker*
*Neo Nebula: lvl 50 Controller*
*Cilux: lvl 50 Scrapper*
SpecOp Wolfsbane: lvl 24 Scrapper
Astraeus': lvl 42 Scrapper
Griffan: lvl 45 Defender
Justice:
*Xenokrates: lvl 50 Brute*
*Kuramaru: lvl 50 MM*
Wolf Fury: lvl 38 Brute
Bullitz Krieg: lvl 40 MM
Towering Shadow: lvl 38 Bane Soldier
Guardian:
*Titaness of Fire: lvl 50 Tank*
Shikimori: lvl 41 Controller
Gun-Power: lvl 29 Blaster
Zanpakuto: lvl 45 Scrapper

01/06/08 19:30

Sturmwolf

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RE: dark/WP

I think Aid Self is for squishies to improve their chance to survive, but a scrapper should have enough good powers to pick without wasting a power on Aid Other, just to get Aid Self.

Why do you want 2 travelpowers?

And you should really go for Conserve Power.
Foc. Acc is pretty End heavy and i see no need for Energy Torrent.
I even skipped that one with my blaster.-.-

I'm listening to real music.
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Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)

01/06/08 20:07

Solarix

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RE: dark/WP

well, im having no end problems as it is, and even with the eventual addition of two more toggles, dark consumption and quick recovery will probably take care of my endurance. also, i would rather have the added accuracy when i need it, for as long as i wanted instead of conserve power with its minute and a half of end discount for its 1000s (almost 17 mins) recharge.

as for energy torrent, youre probably right and i bet i wont end up taking it if this toon gets that high. teleport is just a playstyle choice, i personally love the pool. team teleport im still not 100% sure on whether i will get it or not, but it is helpful for rounding up people if a fight goes badly or if they are dead.

also, what are the pros/cons of the self-rez powers like resurgence? i have heard a lot of different things about them, and it seems pretty evenly split as far as love it/hate it. the extra buff makes it more tempting, but there is the temp rez that comes from a safeguard that could work almost as well (save for the hour recharge).

My DeviantART
City of Heroes
Global Name: @Lethal Dose
Virtue
Lady Arya - lvl 50!! D3 defender(main)
Luna Moonlink - lvl 27 Peacebringer
Ethereal Phoenix - lvling Fire/Kin Controller
Aurelei - lvl 28 Warshade
Amazing Alice - lvl 21 Dark/WP Scrapper
SpecOps Wink - lvl 36 claws/regen scrapper
Imamu - lvl 24 sonic/ice blaster
Phoenix Android - lvling Psy/Fire Blaster
SpecOps Psion - lvling Psy/Mental Blaster
SpecOps Aether - lvling Dark/Energy Tanker
Arya Android - lvl 21 Robots/Dark Mastermind
and various others...
Freedom
La Psypathe - lvl 34 FF/Psy Defender
True Psight - lvl 28 illusions/empathy controller
Tru Element - lvling Ice/Thermal Controller

Plus, I play Guild Wars.

01/06/08 21:29

bold-lightning

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RE: dark/WP

Well, here is what I'll say on a self rez.

Yes it is nice to have one if there is a team wipe or something gets very mad at you (eg: an AV) and kills you before you blink. But outside of those situations, would you want a power you have only for those few moments when an awaken and break free do the same thing? Or would you rather have a more useful power that would more likely be used more often and PREVENT the need for a wakie/self rez?

Also, Team Teleport, no, just no. Maybe on something like a MM where you wanna regroup the pets, but on a Human team, I just find it irritating to be standing, then Poof, I've been teleported and hovering for a moment. But as far as having Flight and Teleport I can see, at least as far as if you need to run, and you have a web grenade or the like active on you.

01/06/08 23:07

BigChill

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RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

i have a dark melee/willpower scrapper, leveling pretty quickly. she is as of right now level 14 (i will move the asterisk according to her lvl), and i love the dark melee controllery aspects.

this is her current build, and what i plan to get:
1 - smite/high pain tolerance
2 - shadow maul
4 - mind over body
6 - touch of fear
8 - siphon life
10- indomitable will
12- air superiority
14- fly*
16- rise to the challenge
18- dark consumption
20- quick recovery
22- teleport foe
24- teleport
26- soul drain
28- heightened senses
30- team teleport
32- midnight grasp
35- resurgence
38- strength of will?
41- focused accuracy
44- laser beam eyes
47- energy torrent
48- recall friend

a few notes: this toon's concept is absorbing other people's powers, like rogue from x-men. she permanently absorbed Liberty Belle (another character of mine)'s strength and resistance, Night-Owl's flight ability, and will accidentally duplicate Arya's ability to create teleportation portals.

basically, i am looking for some advice on slotting dark melee and willpower, and if the powers i chose from the sets are good, and whether or not i should plan on getting strength of will.

What a fun concept, it does sound like Rogue, but this'll play alot like my buddy's DM/Regen scrapper: tons of fun and littel worry.

Slot-wise, it depends alot on how you are going to optimize your DM/travels. I'd revccomend not doing anything with the travels, the only reason to do anything would be for PvP, and I don't see this set do that well unfortuantely.

#1 High Pain Tolerance
Basic +Max Health and res porotection
I'd say 6-slot it if possible, 3 res 3 heal, it'll allow you to stay alive a very long time with the health. If you need the slots elsewhere, 3 slotted res should do fine, just hang around tanks, and your health drain should keep you up just fine.

#2 Mind ofer Body
Toggle smash/lethal + psi res
Basic 4 slots, one end 3 res will keep you verry happy.

You skipped your Fast Healing, its no bigie with DM, you'll counter that nicely with your health drains.

#3 Indomitable Will
Arguable one of the best mez protections in the game. The only loophole is slow and end drains. Oh, and don't forget the psi def!
Basic 4 slots, one end, 3 def will keep psi off your back quite well.

#4 Rise to the Challenge
PbAoE taunt, local -Acc, and +regen per opponent
Nice addition, the combination in the set will do fine as a scrapper. The expected suggestion is 6 slots to be safe, 3 -acc, 3 regen (or one of the related IO sets + the other bonus). For your setup I'd personally suggest only 3 or 4 slots, just go for the - acc and end redux, you 'should' be fine with DM for your health, I don't know though, this is a rather unique suggetion.

#5 Quick Recovery
Got End?
3 slot End mod. Period.

#6 Heightened Senses
Def to most of your weakness +perception
You'll want this at least 4 slotted, one end,3 def.

#7 Resurgance
Self rez
It can only be slotted for end redux/mod and recharge. Good trick to get back into the fight when you need to, and as a scrapper with this build you've got some weaknesses that'll need a compensation: this. 3 slotted for recharge should be fine, if you want, add more for more end, but you shouldn't need it.

#8 Strenght of Will
nice +res all, +res status, and +end recovery
This is going to be usefull, end recovery during this should be enough that you won't need to worry, and you get a good bonus till your end dives when this wears off. I will be assuming that it may be uesed in really bad situations, depending how frequent you may need this will determine how you want to slot it. 3 slot for res at first, then later, if you find you need it, add 3 for recharge. You shouldn't need to, its recharge is faster than other teir 9 'oh crap' buttons.

Now for your DM + Epic, I knwo you didn't ask, but here's my input:

Skipped Shadow Punch for more damage

#1 Smite
Moderate dmg,- acc
Good starter, 'eventually' 'if possible' 4-5 slot will do wonders, mix acc/dmg or an IO set. You chose DM, and I bet you know why I say it'll do wonders ;)

#2 Shadow Maul
Cone, high DoT, -acc
Awesome mix, I bet you already know how to use it, target the guy 'behind' others, the cone will hit several foes at once. Another 'eventually' 'if possible' 4-5 slots, again mix acc/dmg.

#3 Touch of Fear
mele, fear
Not sure how well it works, butmy budd has used it quite well. I will assume 3-4 slot max of acc/fear will do fine.

#4 Siphon Life
mele, moderate dmg, -acc, + health
Another 'eventually' 6 slot, acc + heal + rech. Yep, 3 acc, 2 heal and a rech, or an IO set and this will keep you alive for a verylong time.

Skipped confront. Anyone can guess why, and I agree.

#5 Dark Consumption
PbAoE moderate dmg, +end
And ppl may wonder whey you skipped stamina... 6 slot it as soon as possible, but focus onyour other defences first. a good combination of acc + rech + end will be plenty.

#6 Soul Drain
PbAoE minor dmg, + dmg + acc
This is why you'll be fine most of the time. 'eventually' 6 slot it, acc rech. I know you can slot for dmg, and you may want to eventually, but with it hitting more, it boosts more, and you want the recharge.

#7 Midnight Grasp
mele, supirior dmg, immobolize, -acc
Awesome addition, its no hold, but it hurts. I'd say 6 slotted for acc and dmg.

#8 Focused Accuracy
+ acc + perception
It'll add well so your PbAoEs and cone dmg will hit well, may even want to slot them for dmg if this goes off fast enough. Add 6 slots, rech and tohit.

#9 Laser Beam Eyes
ranged, moderate dmg, -def
Godd starter to a tough fight for the -def. I'd say 3-4 slots, acc and maybe a -def.

#10 Energy Torrent
Ranged cone, minor dmg, knockback
really can't do much with this, its dmg isn't that great IMO, but 3-4 (maybe 6) for acc and dmg and this will ad quite well.

The travels i'd say leave alone. You'll want the slots elsewhere. But you could fidge a bit around to play with teleport or fly if you want to. The only reason I didn'tsuggest on Air Superiority is that its usefull, but the knockup doens't allways happen, good for minoins/leiutenants, but most bosses have a res to it. If you want, 2-3 slots for acc so it hits would be good.

Well, that's my lenghty input. I love the concept build, and i bet it'llbe fun. I hope my thoughts help somewhat.

Big Chill is a conscranker: he conrols a mob so they do nothing, scraps a target till they can't stand, and tanks what's left till the job's done.

Dive in, have fun, and think about it later.

01/07/08 00:54

Solarix

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RE: dark/WP

wow! very informative. thanks for the info, BagChill!

01/07/08 17:40

pyro master

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RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

CP has a 10 min rech unslotted, at 600s. so it will be about 5 mins with slots, and if you decide to add hasten, it will be on even more. so you could have it up about 1/4 of the time if you wanted

01/07/08 19:05

Warron Peace

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RE: dark/WP

One quick note on High Pain Threshold. DO NOT SLOT IT FOR RESISTANCE!

Not for a tanker. Not for a scrapper. Nor a stalker or a brute. It gives crappy resistances! Investing in enhancing those resistances is a major waste of slots! You wanna enhance HPT? Slot it with 3 heals to give yourself an additional 10% HP. You'll get an over all better protection from that. Thats all it needs! Use those slots elsewhere, for end redux, or recharge redux, or extra accuracy! I don't care where you put the slots, just do not slot HPT for resistance! You are literally wasting slots!

Sorry, the numbers maniac got loose. He's right, though. HPTs resistance is not worth enhancing.

W.P.

my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.

01/07/08 20:16

BigChill

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Joined: 10/26/2007
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RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

Srry about this W.P. but I gotta say your wrong. Its along the same lines of me taking Manuvers with Ice Armor adn surviving better than adding damage with Assault. It adds up in an unexpected way that actually works better. One of Willpower's downsides is its 'average' overall standing. To best maximise its use, you need every ounce of whatever you can get, in the best combination of whats availible to work at its peak. Her choice of powers leads me to suggest getting resistance in HPT, because of the usefullness of DM to recover health, you need to then cover whats left. More health that gets drained faster is no good here. So no, adding 10% health in her situation will not help. She does not have a high level of resistance or health recovery, or did u miss she's not getting Fitness? To best maximize her survivability with this style adding resistance would better suit her to back up her damage and DM drains to keep her alive. So I'll still say resistance would be best.

Oh, and your welcome, I hope it does help you out, or at least get you going in the right direction.

Big Chill is a conscranker: he conrols a mob so they do nothing, scraps a target till they can't stand, and tanks what's left till the job's done.

Dive in, have fun, and think about it later.

01/08/08 00:41

lani

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RE: dark/WP

Woohoo! Very nice explanations all round :-)

One thing to add:

It looks like Warren's and Big Ice's dispute is mostly about which school of thought is correct:

- Victory means taking down the foe as quick as possible.
- Victory means being still standing after your foe croaks.

The former leads to faster and shorter combat but you do need more healing backup or have good Health Insurance.
The latter leads to less time wasted traveling back from Hospital or AutoDoc but the battles last a bit longer.

Neither one is really better than the other, it's personal play-style.

MMORPG (Roleplaying): Mostly Men Online Role-Playing Girls
MMORPG (Acheivement): Miserable Malcontents Online Rehashing Past Glories
MMORPG (PvP): Macho Men Obviously Really Prefer Griefing
MMORPG (itemization): Misers May Obfuscate Recently Purchased Gold
MMORPG (Social): Virtual Worlds with Virtual Wealth and achievements, but with Real People with Real Feelings.

01/08/08 05:47

BigChill

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RE: dark/WP

True, either will work. I just beleive less time in the dirt leads to more foes being taken down. So I think for this concept set that style will be better. But if I'm not too far off on my count, so long as she doesn't swap too many powers around, she can have it both ways. She ought to be able to have 6 slotts on those cores, and at least 4-5 on everything else, excluding travels (which there are alot of) leading to a rather heavy and fun build.

Big Chill is a conscranker: he conrols a mob so they do nothing, scraps a target till they can't stand, and tanks what's left till the job's done.

Dive in, have fun, and think about it later.

01/08/08 10:39

Warron Peace

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RE: dark/WP

I can't begin to explain the aggravation. Ya wanna know what 10% more HP is? It is *literally* 10% more resistance to ALL damage. When you slot HPT with resists you get 3.3% more resistance. 3.3%. Thats all. Slot it with three heals, and you get the equivalent of 9.9% more resistance. Three times as much protection from the same amount of slots. Which gets the better return value? Of course you could six slot it and get the extra HP and the extra Resistance. But if you give me a build, I *guarantee* you I can find a much better place to put those 3 slots that'll get you a better return value for them. Higher DPS, better endurance management, something more valuable than 3.3% resistance. Please, leave the number crunching to those who do it right.

W.P.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.

01/08/08 13:10

BigChill

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RE: dark/WP

She's building a scrapper not a tank W.P. 10% health will drain alot faster than you claim. Adding 10% health will 'maybe' allow extra hits to be taken, adding resists to 'all' the hits landing will result in far more damage being prevented, thus, being able to take more hits. I have no clue where you get your numbers, but they don't work like your expecting.

Want me to clarify this abit more? You know that 'useless' auto resist Permafrost on Ice armor? I added that and ya know what that resist did to cold and fire attacks compared to the health in Horarost? I'm left wondering im plenty of situations why I took that again. In fact, I'm gonna hafta redo my Arctic Ice guide because of it, Permafrost should be taken and slotted far sooner.

Resisting tamage as it is being delivered results in the healing being able to cover it better thus allowing more to be taken. That 'minor' resist being buffed results in allowing DM drains and the heling in the set to cover it better. Or are you skipping the fact that she isn't choosing 2 auto health regeneration powers? Without the resist, she simply will not be able to recover the damage she's taking. To best maximise on Willpower's split abilities in the unique choice, adding resists will better help her cover her health in the long run.

So no, in her situation adding health will not help if it is alone, she needs the resists in it.

Big Chill is a conscranker: he conrols a mob so they do nothing, scraps a target till they can't stand, and tanks what's left till the job's done.

Dive in, have fun, and think about it later.

01/08/08 13:28

Aurrius

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RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

I agree with Warron here. He's completely right.

You might want to check on my guide on the Dual Blades/Willpower Scrapper for the Willpower part. As far as I'm aware, it's the first (complete) DB/WP guide there is... that is, on GameAmp and the European boards!

@Aurrius | Paragon Knights | Ultimate Darkness | Union

QUOTE

His name was Hearthbourne
Plays City of Heroes till the break of dawn
He likes his Scrappers
But will not settle for those Blappers
But when he gets out Thundercharge
Those PvP'ers die in the large

- @Artic-fire

My guides:
Broadsword/Regeneration Scrapper
Claws/Regeneration Scrapper
Energy Melee/Electric Armour Brute
Dual Blades/Willpower Scrapper

01/08/08 13:40

Warron Peace

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RE: dark/WP

Look at damage as a percentage of you HP bar being taken away. Not big red numbers that take away your HP. If damage is a percentage of your HP bar being taken away, there are two ways to make that percentage lower. One is to reduce the numbers, the other is to increase the size of the HP bar. If I have 800 HP and an attack does 200 damage, I've lost 25% of my HP bar. If I have 1000 HP and take 200 damage, I've lost 20% of my HP bar. Adding in 25% more HP results in less damage taken over all! More HP is the exact same thing as damage resistance in the long run. Therefore, find the slotting for HPT that gives a higher percentage of overall damage resistance! 9.9% more HP resistance, or 3.3% (numbers for a scrapper, in case you don't understand that) damage resistance. THREE TIMES AS MUCH PROTECTION SLOTTING FOR HP FIRST!

God, like I said, leave the numbers game to those who know how to play it properly!

W.P.

my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.

01/08/08 13:47

pyro master

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RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

i would have to say that i agree with warron more on the topic, but i would make room to six slot the power either way you look at it. and also, i think your getting a little too upset over the posts WP. it seems as though your yelling and getting overly frustrated on the post

01/08/08 15:14

BigChill

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RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

Your asked for it. Your right, leave the numbers game to those who know how to play it porperly, which IMO is not you. Numbers mean squat if you fail to apply them properly with the related powerset and playstyles.

Lets see, taking that much damage, without the regen to cover it means that there is even less health availible to continue taking that much damage.

You are forgetting that this settup does not have the recovery for that kind of damage. Or the resistance for that kind of damage, or any added defense other than what's listed. In order to make use of whats available, and to maximise survival based upon the apparent playstyle, she needs the resistance more than the health.

Her only way to gain HP is by RttC and DM drain, not with the backup of 2 auto heals. That cannot recover that kind of damage fast enough before she gets hit agian. RttC is only good for mobs, DM drains can help with the aid of a target that it hits.

If you then reduce the number of whats being dished out, it allows for the given regeneration to recover the health that is lost at a better rate thus leaving more health to continue taking damage.

Now I am assuming that that 3.3% is added to the 5% base resistance here (or that 3.3% is not making any sense at all) meaning that there is an 8.3 inherit resistance to what's taken. Your idea of 10% should mean that HPT starts off with 10% (otherwise your numbers ar jumping outta this air). Now how do you get 200 hp? 800+20%=960, as opposed to only 10% being 880. So I am also assuming your 200 is using a boss's heavy hit there, EB, maybe, so something really rare, but how will you deal with the little stuff? Allot of minions may add up to 200 dmg for this theory, but how many? multiply that 3.3% res per opponent, per hit and it will kill that 200 theory down fast. That 200 will look alot closer to 100. Add in the meager regen from RttC and DM drains for that boss and neither will last well there. Even for mobs it will not help that 200 on yours much, but that 100 with res is barely noticed.

When you start throwing numbers arround make sure you either put them in context of the situation or playstyle cause the argument as-is doens't hold well. Put the nubers in context with the set and the given playsyle with the powers availible. Otherwise all your suggesting is something that simply will not help.

One last thing before I forget, have you counted up my slots yet? there's room to spare, my suggestions leave this power with both as the reccomended, and there is plenty to go around, or is 5 slotted attacks not worth it? Come on W.P. don't get on my nerves here, I gave plenty of room for either, and resistance would work out better for what she'll probably see when she's soloing, in a team its all moot point.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Big Chill is a conscranker: he conrols a mob so they do nothing, scraps a target till they can't stand, and tanks what's left till the job's done.

Dive in, have fun, and think about it later.

01/08/08 15:23

lani

GameAmp Staff
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Credibility: 28 pts

RE: dark/WP

Ok, now that we got the boring math out of the way, what is your scrapper going to wear?

keep an eye on the priorities here!
A dispute over a measely 2-5% difference isn't nearly as important as looking HOT while pummeling the villains. :-D

01/08/08 15:40

Solarix

Posts: 33
Joined: 08/13/2006
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RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

*sigh* a forum poster after my own heart. I will post a screenie of my ripoff costume at some point, i think i did pretty well.

PS - i know the fact that i almost have only female characters (i dont like the costume parts on guys for the most part...), i am actually male....i didnt take offense, just wanted to point that out...

PPS - sorry to cause so much craziness!

Edit: um, i ran the numbers, i would rather slot my other shields than get such a miniscule amount of enhanced res or +hp form 3-slotting either or both, because its based on percentages, the added bonuses would be almost negligible. sorry to burst the argument, PLEASE DON'T YELL AT ME!

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/08/08 18:01

Warron Peace

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RE: dark/WP

Lets play the numbers game =D

Hypothetical numbers, of course, cuz it makes the math easier.

Say I have 100 HP. I get hit with an attack that does 10 damage. Now, my HPT is slotted with 3 resist SOs, giving me an additionaly 3.3% resistance. Lets take 10 damage, reduce it by 3.3%, and get a total of 9.67 damage taken. 100-9.67= 90.33 HP left over.

Now lets take it with 3 Heals slotted. I have 9.9% more HP. That gives me a total HP of 109.9. Lets subtract that ten damage from it, to get 99.9 HP left over. Amazing! When we slot for HP, we wind up with more HP left over! YOU GET A BETTER SURVIVABILITY SLOTTING FOR THE HP INCREASE!

You wanna keep playing the numbers game with me? Give some hard numbers to prove me wrong. You CAN'T do it, because I am right! The more HP you have, the more resistant to damage you are! And a power like HPT is better slotted for Heals. Sure, you can slot it for both if you feel like wasting power slots, but if you are wise about your slot usage, you'll stick 3 heal SOs into it and BE DONE WITH IT! Best return for your investment goes to heal slotting, every single time. Goes for tanks, brutes, stalkers, AND SCRAPPERS!

W.P.

my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.

01/08/08 18:57

Solarix

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RE: dark/WP

if that was addressed to me, warron, i completely understand and agree, im just saying that the percentage bonus received from enhancements placed in that power is not enough for me to want to slot it up, at least not right away.

01/08/08 21:30

BigChill

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RE: dark/WP

No bigie bout this, I don't blame you at at all, and srry, glad you didnt take offense.

Now for the joyous numbers game. You want it W.P., here it is:

Assume bases are 500 hp, dmg is 15, and recovery is 5 with a DM drain of 35, boss dmg count is 90, leiutenants is 25.

Basic mob setup: one leutenant, 4 minions.

Tough will be one boss, two lieutenants, 5 minions

Difficult will be 2 bosses, 3 lieutenants, 7 minions
hopefully no one tries this one intentionally

I will not get into Impossible. Its Impossible with any more added into the mix, either option dies on the first round off hits, W.P.'s option lasts for an extra hit or two than mine.

HP bonus base is 10%

Basic resistances are 5 and 10 % (assuming a toggle as well) I will also assume that you are also going to suggest less slots in the toggel till later(and more health for later level), so for you the 10% stays 10% for a while, during this hypothesis

I will not account fof the def, random misses or any other added stuff, the numbers mix gets too muddy.

Your setup: 500*1.2=600hp, resistances are 15% (again assuming your focusing on attacks) again focusing on attacks your heals don't change(unless your doing some form of hybrid where you end up missing) because you are causing more damage, your fights will be shorter than mine.

Basic: 600-21.25-51+5+35=567.75, unless you take your time, no worries here.

Tough: 600-76.5-42.5-63.75+5+35=457.25, bosses attack slower, so the second round doesn't hurt as much, but #3 will, this alternating pattern will mean it will be a close finish, you'll win, but barely.

Difficult: 600-153-63.75-89.25+5+35=115.5, uh, punch #2 will kill you.

Mine is: 500*1.1=550hp, resistance are total 24.8%, DM drains heal for 70. Focusing on attacks means my choice leads to longer fights, but they should be fine with the recovery only needing to las long enough to get the main bosses/lieutenants first leaving the small fry for later.

Basic: 550-18.8-45.12+5+70=561.08, uh, I mean 550.

Tough: 550-67.68-37.6-56.4+5+70=463.32, with the bosses hitting slower, DM drains can cover most of this damage, meaning survival is fairly certain if not guarenteed if that boss is tackeld first.

Difficult: 550-135.36-56.4-78.96+5+70=354.28, ouch, i'll admit, unless you can nail 2 bosses fast, this will lose, but loose less than your offensive options

Now I admit, I did not give you a fair standing with res by basing soley on dmg, if you do slot the toggle with res you will have 21.5% res, so yeah, then it is a meager 3.3% difference, sloting DM drains for a hybrind acc/health/dmg will get around 55, assuming this then:

Basic: 600-19.625-47.1+5+55=593.275, your fine so long as DM drain and attacks doesn't miss too much, with the focused Acc Epic, you shouldn't, but here...

Tough: 600-70.65-39.25-58.875+5+55=491.225, admitedly it looks better than mine, but it depends on that boss, slower attacks, recover some of that health, and you should be fine, otherwise...

Difficult: 600-141.3-58.875-82.425+5+55=377.4, now here I will admit you fare better than mine, but it still is moot point, better or no, you still die. Slower Boss hits and all, you simply cannot deal with the damage, but neither can mine.

Assuming that hybrid of acc/dmg/heal in DM drains as opposed to acc/dmg you will have between 10-20% chance of missing compared to mine. Miss means no heal, means less health, and you die, faster. But prepared, misses should rarely happen with either option. Inspirations play a huge role with Willpower, with its average standings, inspirations push it over the edge and makes it capible of alomost anything. So either way it really doesn't matter, go into the fight prepared, and there should never be any worries.

Now it does boil down to the playstyle and what you choose to face and how. Mine is the safer, your gonna survive most of the time, on average basic-tough stuff, while W.P. is the take down as many as possible as you faceplant but a hybrid can handle the most difficult ones slightly better if you do chose to take them, but will still land you 6ft under either way if you face those odds. Any will work, I just think mine will do better when you don't need to wait for that rez all the time or risk missing on those DM drains to keep you up.

Choose what you want man, all I did was give you input on what I thought would be the most helpful, in truth, your selections will allow a wide variety of combinations, any of which will be succesful in their own way. All I'm doing here is rooting for safety, and for you to have fun with your build.

Big Chill is a conscranker: he conrols a mob so they do nothing, scraps a target till they can't stand, and tanks what's left till the job's done.

Dive in, have fun, and think about it later.

01/09/08 03:48

Warron Peace

Posts: 0
Joined: 06/06/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: dark/WP

OK, first, to play the numbers of resistance vs +hp, you have to make *everything else* constant. We make it one attack, cuz it'll be true for every attack.

Constants:

Base HP: 100
Attacks damage: 10

Other resistances have already been applied, and are null to this experiment. We want the resulting protection from adding 3 resistance SOs to HPT, as opposed to adding 3 Heals to HPT. Regardless of the heal situation (which will be the same in both situations), regardless of the other applicable resistances (which will be applied in both situations).

First, we'll add in the 3.3% extra resistance you get from slotting 3 Resistance SOs into HPT.

HP: 100
Attack damage, after applying the extra resistance: 9.67
Resulting HP after that attack: 90.33

Not bad. It obviously reduced the damage incoming by a bit, so it does help. Now lets see what happens when we slot 3 Heal SOs into HPT, as opposed to 3 Resists.

HP, after HPT's bonus: 109.9
Attack's damage: 10
Resulting HP after the attack: 99.9

Wow! 9.57 more HP by slotting with Heals! Just like I said it would be. Give me any attack (or total damage from multiple attacks) and I'll apply the 3.3% extra resistance to it, and subtract from the HP. Then I'll boost the HP by 9.9% and subtract the full damage from it, and I guarantee I'll have higher HP after that.

Every attack (or set of attacks) reduces your HP bar by a percentage. In the base example, 100 HP reduced by 10 damage is a loss of 10% of your HP bar. We want to lessen that. By applying an extra 3.3% resistance, we wind up reducing the HP bar by 9.67%. By *increasing* the HP bar, that same 10 damage only reduces the HP bar by 9.08%. We take less damage by losing a smaller percentage of our total HP!

I'm not advocating that Dose ignores his other resistances and focuses solely on his Attacks. His toggles provide one function, to either boost his resistance or his defense. They provide the bulk of his protection and should be slotted up as soon as is possible, in my opinion. My problem is with the single power, High Pain Threshold. Will Power is a rather slot heavy set, as is Dark Melee. I'm advising him to focus on slotting HPT with Heal enhancements first and foremost, and only slotting it for resistance if he has the slots to spare, and only after he's put three Heal SO/IO enhancements into it first. For that one power alone, he'll get a much greater return in survivability slotting it for more HP. This has been proven over and over again by many people on the Official Boards. There are a much larger list of number crunchers there, and all it takes is a close look at their math to discover that they are correct.

Getting more HP is always going to increase your survival. Cold Domination for Villain Corruptors has one "heal" power called Frostworks, that not only heals, but gives a HP boost similar to Dull Pain type powers. That is further proof that not only do the players believe more HP is good, but the devs know it to be true. You should never neglect your prime sources of protection, being toggles and other heals. But HPT is a unique power, in that it both boosts your HP and provides Resistance. When it comes to proper slotting for *that one power alone* you have to look at which slotting provides the great protective return. In this case, its slotting for HP.

If HPT gave a 5% boost to HP and 20% resistances, I'd be saying slot it for resistance first. But as it stands *in all forms* you get a better return for slotting for HP first. If you continue to argue against me, I'll go ahead and work up a build complete with appropriate slotting at each level and we can debate from there.

W.P.

PS: Sorry Dose for disrupting your thread. Slot HPT when you feel your other toggles and attacks are well set, and please focus on slotting heals in first, especially for that base slot. =D

my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.

01/09/08 12:07

BigChill

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/26/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: dark/WP

...

Okay I'm not answering this blockhead anymore after this.

Just slot for what you need, resist do come in handy, contray to assumed beleif. You'll notice it when the little stuff really falls under the category of little stuf. Heals work plenty, and I would recommend gerring HPT 6 slotted with res/heal eventually to cover your bases, I never said when, and I never said to rush on this one. Youve got plenty or slots and plenty of levels before doing anything with this really affects you. It comes in handy either way, and as a scrapper its moot point cause you should be fine with them falling like flies around your.

Do whatever, just have fun with this.

Big Chill is a conscranker: he conrols a mob so they do nothing, scraps a target till they can't stand, and tanks what's left till the job's done.

Dive in, have fun, and think about it later.

01/09/08 12:28

Aurrius

Posts: 31
Joined: 06/11/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

Okay I'm not answering this blockhead anymore after this.

BigChill, this is the hundredth time I see you doing this. You always get pissed off and aggressive when people disagree with you or discuss what you have said. This is GameAmp, we're supposed to be nice here! Don't call each other names.

@Aurrius | Paragon Knights | Ultimate Darkness | Union

QUOTE

His name was Hearthbourne
Plays City of Heroes till the break of dawn
He likes his Scrappers
But will not settle for those Blappers
But when he gets out Thundercharge
Those PvP'ers die in the large

- @Artic-fire

My guides:
Broadsword/Regeneration Scrapper
Claws/Regeneration Scrapper
Energy Melee/Electric Armour Brute
Dual Blades/Willpower Scrapper

01/09/08 12:39

lani

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 570
Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 28 pts

RE: dark/WP

Ehm, go read through the posts in chronological order. You'll find it's Warren who starts calling names and using SHOUTING to strengthen his position. The fact that Warren's been around AMP doesn't give us the right to treat BigChill to a slap on the wrst for something Warren initiated, in this thread. Slap both or none at all. No playing favorites.

What you got here is two bulls clashing their horns together on obscure math points that don't really matter. But let's be fair and not blame just one of the bulls for it when it's clear there's two going at it. Both of their arguments have merit as far as I can tell and both are to stubborn to see the other's point. Not just one.

So, how about that costume Solarix?

01/09/08 14:27

Solarix

Posts: 33
Joined: 08/13/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: dark/WP

just took the screenie, lani, bout to put it up.

also, one thing that you guys overlooked is that yes, higher hp makes you live longer, but it also makes you harder to heal. the number of hp healed is constant, and if you have a bigger bar, you have a smaller percentage healed. right?

PS - thanks for the vidiotmaps.com suggestion, they are very helpful!

01/09/08 15:25

Warron Peace

Posts: 0
Joined: 06/06/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: dark/WP

Actually, self heals (such as Drain Life from Dark Melee) heal a percentage of your total HP back. So you actually get larger heals from having more HP. Heals from other people are more constant, and it would take more of them to heal you back. At the same time, you'll take less damage overall, meaning you shouldn't need the heals as much. It balances out quite nicely.

As for my aggressiveness, my points have been proven time and time again by players who are more into numbers than even I am. When some new guy comes in and hands me a load of crap, I tend to get offended. When I prove him wrong and he still tosses out crap, I get angry. I have yet to insult him, though, so he literally did sling the first stone that way. If he had bothered to look up the information at the source, like I did, he wouldn't have any grounds on which to argue. He ignored fact in favor of his delusions, and that just ticks me right off. I'm sorry if I've been less polite than I should be, but I hope you understand the position I'm coming from.

And lani, just because the numbers aren't important to you, doesn't mean they aren't important to the game. Once you get past all the pretty looks, the game is all about numbers. Everything is calculated, and the more information you have about the numbers, the greater your chance of success at playing the game. Anyone can play it, but the best players know the numbers behind the flashy effects.

W.P.

my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.

01/09/08 19:19

Solarix

Posts: 33
Joined: 08/13/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: dark/WP

QUOTE

so if i slot HPT for heal, i will also increase the heal from life drain? if i understand this correctly, life drain always heals a certain visible chunk of the hp bar, no matter what the actual numbers behind it are? that is nice if it works that way. i always thought it was just a percentage of your unenhanced hp bar, and was only effected by enhancements.

01/09/08 21:21

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