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natecraftman
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Ok, I always belived that resistance was better the defense to a point. The damage midagation of res is muc more impressive, or so I thought. I found recently that some foes have more then the hero (tank is my example) max of 90%. Those foes can have 200%! Now, does that mean that they absorbe some damage or soemthing, or that 90% is not really 90%? I.E. I belived that when you took 100 damage, and had 90% res, you only take 10. But if im right (and I hope I'm not) then it whould take 190% to only take 10 from the 100 (in which case you take about 65 with 90% res).
Please tell me I'm wrong.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 01/09/08 23:06 |
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Hemlut
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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Sorry no idea, I just go by feel and quick look at the numbers.
But I think not being hit better than resisting damage. My scrapper, now I have the stamina worked out, only gets hit once or twice per mob unless facing foes a 2 or 3 levels higher and only EB/AV's have me going for the greens and then only when soloing. He's Martial Arts/Reflexes with Super Jump and stealth. Not bragging just pleased :)
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| 01/10/08 03:01 |
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dougnukem
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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Resistance always appears more effective than Defense, mainly due to it's non-stop affect. With Res, you always see it working, whereas Def can go through streaks of hits and misses. I've gone several missions in a row without getting hit once on my SR, and then the next mish, I get hit 4 or 5 times in a row, and each hit really hurts. Res will constantly lower damage taken in, but will be effected by res debuffs like Longbow's sonic grenades.
This guide Arcanaville's Guide for Defense has some great info in it, but I will warn you, it is long and has numbers. (some folks hate numbers) But it does a great job of showing how Defense works, and even compares Res to Def.
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| 01/10/08 07:38 |
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RonJ73
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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| QUOTE | Sorry no idea, I just go by feel and quick look at the numbers.
But I think not being hit better than resisting damage. My scrapper, now I have the stamina worked out, only gets hit once or twice per mob unless facing foes a 2 or 3 levels higher and only EB/AV's have me going for the greens and then only when soloing. He's Martial Arts/Reflexes with Super Jump and stealth. Not bragging just pleased :) |
There's an ongoing debate about the Resistance/Defense thing. In some regards, the Not Being Hit thing is nice, in some regards, the Being Hit But for X% Less is nice.
The main thing is, Resistance is predictable. If I'm a Fire Tank. Say I have 35% resistance to Smash/Lethal damage. I get hit by some Warrior's Mace for 100 Damage. My Damage resistance is going to eat up 35 points of that and 65 points is getting through.
If I'm an Ice Tank and have a 30% defense to Melee attacks. A Warrior swings his mace at me 10 times. 3 of those 10 times, it's going to miss. (if his accuracy is 100%, it's get complicated when you take accuracy, tohit buffs, tohit debuffs, etc etc etc into account)
The problem with resistance is that you then have to worry about secondary effects whereas with defense, you don't so much because you're not getting hit.
It's all very complicated when you get into the numbers game. But very easily simplified by saying "They're both good in their own way".
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| 01/10/08 07:54 |
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natecraftman
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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Ok, i wasn't trying to start a def vs res debate actully. My question was, if a foe has 200% res, is 100% actully only 1/2 damage (I.e. if I have 90% res and foe hits 100, I take 55). I think ron answered my question by accident when he said a warrior swing 100, I have 35% res and thus only take 65. Then the real question is, what does 101% and higher res do? heal?
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| 01/10/08 17:32 |
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RonJ73
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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No. THere are caps on Resistance and Defense. I think the resistance cap is around 90% and the defense cap is around 75%. Don't quote me on that.
Once you go past the cap, all it really does is protect you from debuffs. So say you have 110% resistance (which translates to 90%) if you get debuffed 15%, you'll still have your capped resistance.
(I'm not even remotely sure of the actual numbers, but I know how the concept works)
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| 01/10/08 18:03 |
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Warron Peace
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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Resistance Caps vary by AT and Enemy. There is no such thing as an opponent having 200% resistance, at least not in CoX. Other games have that kind of setup where if a foe has more than 100% resistance to a damage type, they get healed back when hit by that damage. CoX doesn't do that.
As far as the defense cap goes, its 95% across the boards. No matter what amount of defense and tohit debuffs are around, there will always be a 5% chance that any attack will hit.
Resistance is more reliable, and easier to cap. Defense can be overridden by tohit buffs, or higher accuracy settings. In the numbers world, resistance wins in smaller values. 10% resistance is better than 5% defense, even though technically they mitigate the same amount of damage. That 5% defense will be far less noticable than 10% resistance. However, as the values get higher, defense begins to win. 40% defense is alot more valuable that 80% resistance, because with 40% defense you'll very rarely be hit, while 80% resistance means you'll get hit, but not as hard. 40% defense can start to really act like a total 95% defense, even though its actually 5% less.
A quick explanation. Every character has a base defense of 50%. An even con minion has a 50% chance to hit you with no defense or tohit buffs/debuffs taken into account. So when you add 25% defense, you make your total defense 75%, meaning that your opponent has a 25% chance to hit you. This is why defense percentages are related to double percentage of resistance. A 25% defense bonus will cut an even con minions chance of hitting you in half, effectively giving you 50% resistance to his damage. 25% defense or 50% resistance, either way you are in theory taking half as much damage.
Another thing to take into account. How much HP you have can make one type of protection more valuable than others. Lower HP characters generally do better to have defense values, because they won't get hit as often, and are more likely not to be hit at all. With more HP, say tanker, brute, and scrapper level HP, resistance becomes more valid, as you have the HP buffer to survive the guaranteed damage you are going to take, no matter how it is lessened.
There's even more theories about cumulating small percentages of defense to provide better protection, such as stacking Weave and Combat Jumping/Hover with Force Fields moderate defense levels to push you into the higher protection range. I won't go into all that, as it gets very complex and I don't want to confuse people. =D
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| 01/10/08 21:11 |
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Malicious_Intent_2001
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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Seriously, it freaks me out that you guys know this much about the game. I'm impressed...But I'm a little disturbed as well. :P
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| 01/11/08 10:26 |
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natecraftman
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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Well, thx, everyone, for the usful info. I was worred for a time that mabye res was actully crap ( as i thought when I tryed an invul tank and died too many times to count).
My most recent car Nateman is willpower/energy and my god... He takes reds and purples alone, and tanks out his ass on teams, I simply can't belive how awesome he is, but was worryed for a time about the nature of res, his very core protection. You have eleveated my worrys, and now I shall go on to smash foes with the power of infinite exploding suns!
End thread.
(unless you really got something to say)
Oh, and wicked picture thing Malicious.
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| 01/11/08 15:51 |
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bigspeer
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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I believe the defense 'soft' cap is just ~45%. Hard cap is like 50-55% I believe. But this was all pre-IO bonuses.
a soft cap refers to what a play can reach on their own with no outside assistance.
hard caps are the max level of buffage no matter how many additional buffs are added once at this level.
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| 01/11/08 15:57 |
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Warron Peace
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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Resistance Caps:
Tanks and Brutes: 90%
Everyone Else: 75%
Defense Caps are the same across the boards, 95%. Its still beneficial to go above and beyond that, to help counter tohit buffs from enemies.
W.P.
my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.
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| 01/11/08 17:53 |
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Solarix
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| RE: How much is it really? |
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| QUOTE | A quick explanation. Every character has a base defense of 50%. An even con minion has a 50% chance to hit you with no defense or tohit buffs/debuffs taken into account. So when you add 25% defense, you make your total defense 75%, meaning that your opponent has a 25% chance to hit you. This is why defense percentages are related to double percentage of resistance. A 25% defense bonus will cut an even con minions chance of hitting you in half, effectively giving you 50% resistance to his damage. 25% defense or 50% resistance, either way you are in theory taking half as much damage.
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thats cool, i didnt know that.
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| 01/11/08 18:10 |
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