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Help Plz!!
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I wanna make a stone tank but i wanna know what best compliment it. And what i can do to negate the slow effects?
I need your wisdom fellow heroes
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| 01/26/08 06:55 |
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Deadman54
GameAmp Staff
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First off Welcome to GameAmp! As far as what would be the best choice, I'm sure that Warron Peace will be along soon he's a serious numbers guy and can tell you what would best compliment Stone. My experience is limited to super strength and energy melee combined with invul primary. Ask away we don't bite, well Bigspeer will on occasion, but we try to keep him fed.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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| 01/26/08 08:34 |
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marinex
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The ONLY thing that will negate the slow effects of Stone Armors is teaming with a Kinetic Defender/Controller with Speed Boost, and it still won't allow you to leap. The Best I've seen, as far as work-arounds go, is the combo of Hasten ( to speed up the recharge on your attacks ) and TP as your travel power, allowing you to move about efficiently. The Fitness Pool Powerset is a must making sure to obviously take Swift then Health and Stamina. Seems grim, but that is the price you pay to have Stone's impressive defense.
The obvious choice would seem to be Super Speed but it will be Immediately toggled off the second you activate Granite Armor or Rooted, so kind of a waste, tried that.
There are Invention Enhancement Sets that will help through their "Set" Bonuses, but best to wait till at least 35 to make that kind of Investment as the overall advantages are rather slim till then.
I have heard that Energy Melee and Fire Melee are a much better match to Stone armor than Stone Melee, making you able to take out adversaries at a better clip, have not tried it but the numbers look good.
All I can think of at the moment, hope it helps.
Marine
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| 01/26/08 08:35 |
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pyro master
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well here's a stone fire build i made. i have the slots arranged so that you have exactly capped resistance, so you dont waste any extra slots on those shields. i put in ss as the travel, which most stones dont like, but that was the only way i could keep hasten in there and still have a decent attack chain. so if you want to switch them out for tp, the build will still work fine.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php
Survival: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Stone Skin ResDam-I:50(A)
Level 1: Scorch C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:53(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:39(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:39(50)
Level 2: Earth's Embrace RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(5), RechRdx-I:50(5), Heal-I:50(7), Heal-I:40(45), Heal-I:40(50)
Level 4: Combustion Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:53(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:53(19), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:53(19), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:53(25), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(25), RechRdx-I:50(27)
Level 6: Mud Pots EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(7), EndRdx-I:50(9), Taunt-I:50(9), Taunt-I:50(11), Taunt-I:50(11)
Level 8: Rooted Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(13), Heal-I:50(13)
Level 10: Taunt RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(27), RechRdx-I:50(36), Taunt-I:50(36), Taunt-I:50(37), Taunt-I:50(37)
Level 12: Hasten RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(15), RechRdx-I:50(15)
Level 14: Super Speed Run-I:50(A)
Level 16: Swift Run-I:50(A), Run-I:50(17), Run-I:50(17)
Level 18: Health Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:39(43)
Level 20: Stamina EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 22: Build Up RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(23), RechRdx-I:50(23)
Level 24: Breath of Fire Dmg-I:50(A), Dmg-I:40(36), Dmg-I:50(37), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 26: Boxing Dmg-I:50(A)
Level 28: Tough EndRdx-I:40(A), EndRdx-I:40(29), EndRdx-I:40(29)
Level 30: Fire Sword Circle Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(31), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:53(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(33), RechRdx-I:50(33)
Level 32: Granite Armor ResDam-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:40(33), DefBuff-I:40(34), DefBuff-I:50(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(34)
Level 35: Incinerate C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:39(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:53(46), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:53(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:53(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(48)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:39(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:53(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:53(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:53(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(40)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(42), EndRdx-I:50(42), ToHit-I:50(42), ToHit-I:50(43), ToHit-I:50(43)
Level 44: Conserve Power RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(45), RechRdx-I:50(45)
Level 47: Weave DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(48), DefBuff-I:50(48), LkGmblr-Rchg+:53(50)
Level 49: Minerals LkGmblr-Rchg+:53(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
+6.25% Defense(AoE)
+39% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+37.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
+40.7 (3.38%) HitPoints
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 6.6%)
+20% Regeneration
+6.25% Resistance(Negative)
------------
Set Bonuses:
Crushing Impact
(Scorch)
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 2.2%)
+13.6 (1.13%) HitPoints
+7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Scirocco's Dervish
(Combustion)
+10% Regeneration
+3.13% Resistance(Negative)
+9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+3.13% Defense(AoE)
Scirocco's Dervish
(Fire Sword Circle)
+10% Regeneration
+3.13% Resistance(Negative)
+9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+3.13% Defense(AoE)
Luck of the Gambler
(Granite Armor)
+7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Crushing Impact
(Incinerate)
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 2.2%)
+13.6 (1.13%) HitPoints
+7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Crushing Impact
(Greater Fire Sword)
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 2.2%)
+13.6 (1.13%) HitPoints
+7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Weave)
+7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Minerals)
+7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
| Copy & Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Z|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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| 01/26/08 16:02 |
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DocterPink
Posts: 4
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Sadly, I'm at my dad's and his compy doesn't have Mids so I can't make you a build. But if you're going for Stone Armor, then I might be able to give some helpful input
Stone Skin with 3 Res, Rooted with 3 Heal and 1 End, and Granite with 3 Res, 2 Def and 1 End (IO Sets work great on this power) along with health gives you great Regen along with amazing res and pretty good defense. I would go ahead and leave the Fighting pool out.
As said before, Hasten is practically a must since Granite slows your recharge. With 3 recharge it should be on most of the time with medium sized periods of non-Hasten.
As for moving around, Teleport does wonders. You don't necesarilly have to use it for travel (My Stone Armor brute uses SS) but moving from mob to mob can be a bit of a pain without either SB or Teleport. So unless you have an active kinetics friend, take up Teleport.
Along with Swift from fitness, there are a couple of IO sets that offer movement increases as a bonus. I know Aegis has one but thats all I can remember. Try and get a few of those in there and that should help with your movement situation. However, Rooted and Granite is terribly slow and it would take a ton of bonuses to get you up to a decent speed.
Besides speed and recharge, granite also lowers your damage. Super Strength's Fury takes care of that nicely but since it looks like you want to go with fire, you could take up Assault from Leadership. I'm not sure on the numbers, but that should help bring your damage back up to what it normally is without granite. Build Up will obviously make you a heavy hitter again but sadly it doesn't last that long. Another reason to get Hasten I suppose. Tactics is a nice little power to have as well. Extra accuracy is always nice to have and, the same with Assault, your team will enjoy it too. But Leadership is just a suggestion
Well, hope that helps out a little with your stone guy. Welcome to GameAmp and happy tanking!
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 01/26/08 17:01 |
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robot mind
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rage helps the dmg when you are in granite so i would go with SS.
wellcome to gameamp!
I'm not a altoholic...no really i only have 1000+ toons...thats not..really...never mind.
Ninja Strike!!!
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| 01/26/08 17:44 |
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Warron Peace
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Love it when Gameamp staff mentions me by name. =D
Ah, Stone Armor. The mighty unkillable monster. Only bad thing about it is while no one can kill it easily, it can't kill back easily, either. Of course, I'm talking about Granite Armor, the *almost* ultimate God Mode power. Then there is Rooted, one of the best Mezz protection toggles in the game, with its sole downfall of *slowness*. How to counter these?
Lets start with Rooted, as you get it first and will pretty much have it on all the time you aren't in Granite Armor. First we'll take a look at its perks, so you don't feel so bad about it. First off, it's a -12.975 mag mezz protection to everything but Confuse and Fear, which aren't very common in Blueside PvE. It's 1000% Repel protection. It has 10 mag Knock protection, against all types of Knocks. It has TP foe protection. You toggle this on, you are meant to not be moved. Unfortunately, this includes moving yourself. -50000% Jumpheight. -90% Runspeed. 10 mag -fly. You don't run fast, you don't jump, and you certainly won't fly. On the plus side, it grants you 100% Regen boost, fully enhanceable. This is pretty strong, compared to Health from Fitness giving only 40%, and Fast Healing from WP/Regen giving 75%. Regen scrappers get +150% regen from their Mezz toggle, but only 100% of it is enhanceable. Stone Armor not only gives you good defense, but a solid means of recovering HP after a hit gets through. Win!
Now about that slow. Outside +runspeed buffs will help counter. For the Stone Armor tank, this means Swift from the Fitness pool. Once 3 slotted with Runspeed SOs, a stone tanker running Rooted and Swift will move just barely slower than base run speed. Literally less than 5 feet/second slower than base run speed. When teaming, this is still too slow, generally, unless you have a patient team who doesn't mind waiting for you to catch up. Of course, you can always toggle off Rooted to run to the next mob, activate it again, and run in slowly. Many Stone tankers (myself included, my only 50 tank is Stone) will take Teleport as a Travel power. Not only do you get the awesome Recall Friend to help your teammates get around, you also get the only travel power that will work as intended with Rooted/Granite active. Simply click the power, point at a location and click, and BOOM! You are now right in the middle of the mob, ready to take the alpha and get and keep the aggro on you, where it belongs. Between 3 slotted Swift and Teleport, and a little patience and practice, you'll find it rather easy to get around when need be.
So that covers the downfalls of Rooted, and partially Granite. Granite armor has the same exact slow as Rooted, and nearly 50% more mezz protection to boot, so when running Granite armor, you generally won't need Rooted running too, unless facing a large number of mezz happy mobs. The other downfalls of Granite Armor are 2: -65% Recharge and -30% damage. The recharge debuff is easily mitigated by taking Hasten from the Speed power pool. You'll actually gain 5% recharge over your normal rate for 2 minutes while Hasten is active and you have Granite on. Now, to counter the -damage. Every Tanker secondary has Build Up in some form or another, but one in particular has the "best" version. This is Super Strength, with its power Rage. Rage lasts for 2 minutes and grants +20% Tohit (fully enhanceable) and +80% damage. This not only counters the -damage from Granite Armor for 2 minutes, it actually gives you 50% more damage than you normally have outside of Granite.
My advice for a tanker secondary for Stone Armor is to take Super Strength as you secondary, as I did. My best friends first 50 was Stone/SS, and between his experiences and what I read on the boards, I made that my choice for a decent "Scranker" build that still has damage abilities inside Granite Armor. By using both Hasten and Rage with Granite Armor, you'll have a total of 20% Base Defense to all but psi, 50% Base Resistance to all but psi, -21.6 magnitude mezz protection to all but confuse and fear, 5% recharge bonus, +20% fully enhanceable Tohit, and 50% damage bonus, for a duration of 2 minutes. Nifty stuff. Allows you a true God Mode for 2 minutes time, especially once you have Granite and Rage enhanced. If it takes longer than 2 minutes to kill, chances are you have a team to do the damage for you. =D
So my suggestion is Stone/Super Strength. Hope you like the build, I loved it all the way to 50 and beyond.
W.P.
my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.
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| 01/26/08 21:25 |
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robot mind
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yeah warron knows his stuff.
follow warron's advise and you will be on your way to a happer tanking life!
I'm not a altoholic...no really i only have 1000+ toons...thats not..really...never mind.
Ninja Strike!!!
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| 01/27/08 10:31 |
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Sturmwolf
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Good thing about Warrons post is, he doesn't start calling out for Buffs (SB) to make up for the drawbacks.
;o)
I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc
(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)
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| 01/27/08 11:08 |
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marinex
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Despite the suggestion that it should all be done in build, Speed boost is a Granite Armor tanks best buddy. Regardless of the Tweaks that both Warron and I described, you will be SLOW,(default run speed in the higher levels is SLOW) and movement while in Granite AND Rooted will be VERY Slow, It's the price you pay and there is NO complete Fix. TP allows you to move easily from Mob to Mob, but if you Knock a Villian out of Melee you either have to TP again to get him or run (six million dollar man style) to get back in Melee. It is just something you have to accept if you choose to play this set. I have a 41 Stone/Axe and have all the tweaks we've discussed and he still CRAWLS compared to my 50 Inv/SS.
The Original Poster asked if there is a way to NEGATE the slow, no there is not, but you can make it tolerable and functional through Pool Powers and slotting.
The only real cure is Speed Boost, which is always, when I'm playing Livingston, greeted with a big Thank You. When I solo him, mostly in Stone Armor, he does fine, but it is nice when Teaming to be able to RUN from crowd to crowd with both Granite and Rooted running.
The Devs did this to maintain Parity between the sets, otherwise all you would see are Stoners, and I think they did fine. Still one of my Favorite toons to play, with or without SB.
Marine
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| 01/27/08 12:44 |
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Warron Peace
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Actually Marine, it used to be worse. Unyeilding from Invuln used to be called Unyeilding Stance, and allowed you *NO* movement at all while it was active. The only way around that was using Teleport. Rooted used to do the same thing, forced you to be rooted in one spot. Between the two powersets, arguably the strongest sets, the birth of Tele-Tanking was born.
Later on, (not sure of which issue) they changed the powers to allow movement. Unyeilding Stance was renamed Unyeilding and set to function as it does today, while Rooted remained Rooted, but changed from -100% runspeed to -90% runspeed. Stone Armor remained slower because of the fact that not only did you get phenominal mezz protection from Rooted, you could also get up to 299% regen rate (this was before ED, when you could 6 slot it for Heal enhancements and feel no penalty). Rooted is the strongest mezz shield in the game because of the fact that it boosts your regen. The only thing comparable to it is Regen's Integration power, which has a stronger base regen value, but weaker magnitude mezz protection.
W.P.
my current project: Spine/Will farmer, Quillpower, on Virtue.
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| 01/27/08 15:06 |
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BlackVoltage
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Any one got any build tips for stone/stone?
wanna be able to take damage in RWZ raids and GMs
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| 01/27/08 16:39 |
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marinex
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Aah Warron, how I remember Unyeilding Stance. I have my 36 months Vet rewards coming soon. Marine was into his early 20s when that was changed. Sad to see what happened if you hit U.S. accidently while flying, lol.
Also remember that Phantom Army used to produce (randomly) 2-5 Decoys, that could get artsy sometimes, glad they just set it at 3 so you didn't have to wonder whether you'd be begging for your life or not when you launched them.
Went through the lower levels with a ton of toons when debt started at Level 5, glad they changed that, otherwise I would never have heard the term "Atlas Express" in the sewers and Hollows.
Most of the changes, except ED (till they brought in crafted enhancements) have been beneficial and have improved the game overall.
Marine
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| 01/27/08 20:38 |
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Help Plz!!
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Thanks guys your awesome im going to make 2 tanks a stone/fire and stone/ss. Because i have never tried fire and i love rage. So i guess i will have to be patient with this powerset.
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| 01/28/08 02:01 |
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robot mind
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good for you!
yeah both is a good way to go and maybe you will like one more then the other.
I'm not a altoholic...no really i only have 1000+ toons...thats not..really...never mind.
Ninja Strike!!!
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| 01/28/08 12:39 |
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