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HackingHippie89

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Universal Health Care

I've been looking at the Dem/Rep canidates for awhile and the one that stands out most at the moment seems to be Barack Obama. I've read on his website he is for Universal Health Care. My question is to any of you from Canada or France or any other nation with Universal Health Care is simple. Does it work? Are the taxes generated from it too high? And how are somewhat minor injuries treated(such as torn ligaments in a knee) as for how fast you can get in to see a doctor.

01/29/08 12:33

TheBeano

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RE: Universal Health Care

I'm a Canadian who pays taxes and has lived here all my life. Health Care is a given up here... I go in for a cold, flu, sprained ankle, it costs me nothing. As far as how this appears on our taxes, I have nothing to compare to. I think we pay about 18% of our yearly earnings in taxes (don't quote me on that), which seems reasonable to me. Extras, like ambulance rides, extended stays in the hospital, and really expensive preion drugs are not usually covered by the universal health care system. But, if you've got a good job with good employer health benefits, they you're set. I pay nothing for most common preion drugs, extra stays at the hospital are covered for me. Even Dental is almost entirely paid by my employer. It's a good deal...

01/29/08 12:51

lani

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RE: Universal Health Care

It works. The boat rocks, but it sails.

The main difference between Universal Health Care and the current US system is everyone contributes to capacity and those with less capacity benefit from the surplus of those with more capacity. It also includes a mentality of that gets you helped first, pay the bills later. So no almost killing yourself running two jobs, saving up for months for that Operation, but pay of the debt for same Operation after you got it and are in good health. Another way to see it as compulsory Health Insurance, which is how it works in the Netherlands. There are strong socialist / humanist in the UH system.

Mind you, in recent years our insurance companies turned money-grabbing over the backsof their insuree's. Reducing quality and quantity of available services in packages (if you need medicine A, but B is cheaper they get to overrule the Doctor's advice now) and do tons of other cost-saving / profit making schemes (like wild speculating and investing in unhealthy things like Tabacco, but hey so did our local anti-smoking foundatinon). Somehow, our monthly fees to the insurance agencies has gone up.

So the system is far from perfect, but I for one would not want to live in a country that doesn't have it. The principle is rock solid imo. But I'm part-socialist to begin with, looking at the global good of the community. Hardcore liberalists will say it's unwanted government intervention.
I don't mind that part of my taxes goes to services I do not / will not / may not parttake of. There's bound to be free government stuff I make more use of than others.

Oh and, Dutch taxes start at 40% But we pay a lot less for services you pay seperately for in the US. It's a trade off and 'works' depending on what your definition of 'working' is. The US has the highest rate of people living below the poverty-line of all Western countries. Distribution of Wealth tends to be less extreme in those countries with social systems like Ubiversal Health and such. That also means fewer stinkingly rich people. Personally I prefer good odds on being above that poverty-line than still-poor odds of getting filthily rich. But again, I'm no capitalist as you may have guessed.

Sorry, long post. UH is a good system, but how it's implemented is important and it will benefit the poor more than the rich.

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01/29/08 13:00

Xaviak

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

I'm pretty sure that if the Netherlands got it, Finland also has a universal health care(?) And if it's the same system as here, it rocks. I don't have to fear that I get kicked out of a hospital just 'cos I don't have an insurance.

So, I second most of the stuff he said. ^^ (I Guess?)

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01/29/08 13:22

HackingHippie89

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RE: Universal Health Care

ty and +cred to the both of you

01/29/08 13:34

Xaviak

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RE: Universal Health Care

What did that Clinton say about health care in her campaign? The struggle between Clinton and Obama has been alot in the news here.

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01/29/08 13:43

RevBudGreen

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RE: Universal Health Care

I am an American who has looked how how UHC works in other countries and I am all for it here. But, my opinion on certain things is why I will never vote for a democrat. I am more of a Independent then I am anything else. Neither right or left. Just somewhere down the middle.

Speaking of Democrats, last night we ate at KFC. I ended up having the Hillary Clinton Special. Which consisted of 2 small breasts, 2 large thighs, and a left wing. ; )

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01/29/08 13:54

hat-of-doom

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RE: Universal Health Care

Seems to be working pretty well here in the UK as well.

QUOTE

Speaking of Democrats, last night we ate at KFC. I ended up having the Hillary Clinton Special. Which consisted of 2 small breasts, 2 large thighs, and a left wing. ; )

icwutudidthar

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01/29/08 13:58

Xaviak

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

Speaking of Democrats, last night we ate at KFC. I ended up having the Hillary Clinton Special. Which consisted of 2 small breasts, 2 large thighs, and a left wing. ; )

LOL. :P

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01/29/08 13:58

lani

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

What did that Clinton say about health care in her campaign? The struggle between Clinton and Obama has been alot in the news here.

Yup, it's almost as if the Reps don't even count and it's all about those two.

Oh and I'm not 100% sure about Finland. I think you do have Universal Health insurance in place though. I know for sure Sweden has.

01/29/08 14:00

Xaviak

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

What did that Clinton say about health care in her campaign? The struggle between Clinton and Obama has been alot in the news here.

Actually, I haven't heard a single thing about Reps, I don't even know who are their candidates.
Then I'm up to 99% sure we have it too, if Sweden has it. :P

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01/29/08 14:13

RevBudGreen

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

What did that Clinton say about health care in her campaign? The struggle between Clinton and Obama has been alot in the news here.

Actually, I haven't heard a single thing about Reps, I don't even know who are their candidates.
Then I'm up to 99% sure we have it too, if Sweden has it. :P

The major ones are Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney, and John McCain. Guliani is just an after thought now. To be honest I really haven't heard any of them address this issue. UHC seems to be a democrat focused issue. But its a long way to go until election so I am sure it will be addressed somewhere along the lines with the GOP.

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01/29/08 14:23

lani

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

I think Guliani being out of the race is a good thing. Some of his statements last year scared me. I'd not expect UHC being big on the Republicans' agenda. It's rather intense government involvement, something they've never been big on, being mostly conservative liberalists. On the other hand, there's left- and right wing Republicans and Democrats. it's sometimes hard to follow what the differences are for non Americans (possibly some Americans too).

But here in Europe, both local media and CNN:Europe give the Democrat struggle for candidacy about 8 times as much airtime as the Republicans get. I guess a possible black and a possible female make for more interesting "news" than the stodgy old farts on the Rep side. No offense intended to those of Republican persuasion, but this election's Rep-crop is a bit long in the tooth you must admit. :-)

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01/29/08 14:44

diversion900

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RE: Universal Health Care

Universal health care is fine when it works (the companies still have to fork out money in advance, not something they like)
A lot of countries have a system where some of your tax money goes in to health-care, With some left for you to get an insurance, so that the bill will actually be paid.
But you walk into the hospital and get assistance instead of having to fill in 5 forms in duplicate to proof that you have insurrance

But the thing I was going to point out was that "miss" bill Clinton wanted to introduce general health care while he was in the oval office, "Health care for everybody because everybody gets sick", health insurance agencies go no way, then i wont be able to buy that 5th house in the bahama's.
the Idea is sound the application might be a bit harder.

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so why can't he keep up with my honda cup on his bussa

01/29/08 14:54

patrickvp

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RE: Universal Health Care

Good luck finding coverage of actual issues in this campaign though. The vast majority of media coverage has been more obsessed with cartoony personality "clashes" than with actual issues.

01/29/08 15:44

cswella

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

But the thing I was going to point out was that "miss" bill Clinton wanted to introduce general health care while he was in the oval office, "Health care for everybody because everybody gets sick", health insurance agencies go no way, then i wont be able to buy that 5th house in the bahama's.
the Idea is sound the application might be a bit harder.

One of the reasons I won't vote for Hillary Clinton is she used to be a huge advocate for Universal Healthcare, until the insurance companies paid the Clintons to shut up.

Universal Healthcare would be great, except the ones who would have to pay the most taxes(middle-class) wouldn't be able to afford it, and the ones who don't pay the most taxes(stupidly rich people) are afraid they'd have to start paying.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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01/29/08 16:06

Hardstrike

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RE: Universal Health Care

I'd vote for the one that promotes internet. Like in Korea the goverment was like, internet is good. so internet everywhere is better. So Koreans can play MMORPG's almost everywhere (thats why there are so much of em)

:D

01/29/08 16:25

RevBudGreen

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

One of the reasons I won't vote for Hillary Clinton is she used to be a huge advocate for Universal Healthcare, until the insurance companies paid the Clintons to shut up.

When it comes to the Clintons that is only one small reason why not to vote for her. Albeit a good one, there are many many more. Biggest one...they are Born Again Liars, as I like to put it.

QUOTE

Universal Healthcare would be great, except the ones who would have to pay the most taxes(middle-class) wouldn't be able to afford it, and the ones who don't pay the most taxes(stupidly rich people) are afraid they'd have to start paying.

Which could also lead to the debate of the "Flat Tax". Something I have favored for a while now. I believe the number that has been thrown around by it's supporters is 17%. Add in UHC and I would be willing to pay even up to 20-25% depending on how good it is.

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01/29/08 16:48

Jamnog

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RE: Universal Health Care

The National Health Service employs 1.3m people - the third largest workforce in the world after the Chinese Red Army and the Indian Railway. Employee numbers are increasing by 60,000 year-on-year and there is an annual training budget of around £4bn at his disposal.

I'm not right wing and the nhs is fantastic at times.

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/200...ms-head-on.html

http://www.contractoruk.com/money/vat_calculator.html
but we pay
VAT @ 17.5%
national insurance
council tax
road tax
Ernst & Young, the accountants, said the tax burden will be 37.6 per cent of GDP this year, rising to 37.8 per cent next year and 38 per cent in 2010-1.

So well there is allot of tax spread out the more you spend/earn the more you get taxed and it fules the nhs. There are critics of the uk free healthcare but It saved millions of lives and its imo the best in the world and I'm willing to pay for it.

01/29/08 17:27

cswella

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

I would love a flat tax, lol.

If we stop spending tons of money on foreign lands, institute a Flat Tax, cut down on foreign dependence by allowing for 'greener' engines in cars, and spend wisely, I should think we could afford very good healthcare. Though I doubt we could achieve the title 'Best' due to our size as a country.

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01/29/08 20:08

Belshazaarswrath

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RE: Universal Health Care

Wait I thought we weren't suppose to talk politics at game amp...

I Got a part of one of my posts edited because I was angry abotu a tax. Wtf?

01/29/08 20:28

Allanon6666

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

Ok, about huckabee and mccain... they are republicans in name ONLY. most of their political agendas actually coincide w/the dems. the thing that scares me about UH in the US is the fact that almost everything that is ran by the gov is run poorly (the biggest exception is the military, course it worked better before bill came along). And if you want an example of how the gov. runs stuff poorly, just look at the DMV, lol

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01/29/08 21:15

Mordakaida

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RE: Universal Health Care

So far I only see two candidates I even sorta like and that is Obama and Ron Paul the rest are either stupid, bought off or have their head so far up their butt they can't see right from wrong.

Now on to Universal Health Care. I think it be perfect to create this in the us with the option for private insurance as well. Every doctor must practice in the universal health care but can also set up private after meeting a minimal amount of UHC care has been provided.

So you get the people who can't afford coverage to get the care they need and you have people who can afford coverage put money into the system.

Coverage for profit does nothing but hurt the people who truly need the help. We shall see what will happen.

01/29/08 21:42

RevBudGreen

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

Wait I thought we weren't suppose to talk politics at game amp...

I Got a part of one of my posts edited because I was angry abotu a tax. Wtf?

I don't know about that, but this discussion has been kept very civil and mature with no one doging on any one else. So I think as long as it is kept that way there is nothing wrong with it. Plus, this discussion is about Health Care, not which canidate is better, or whose views are right or wrong.

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01/29/08 22:07

lani

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

Wait I thought we weren't suppose to talk politics at game amp...

I Got a part of one of my posts edited because I was angry abotu a tax. Wtf?

Yup. You have to remember that all of those \"don\'t discuss this or that\"rules came in effect because people couldn\'t keep those discussions civil. Not out of some kind of deep-rooted belief they should not be discussed here if they can remain civil.
Politics are always iffy and volatile, that\'s why it\'s save to make it a no-no on forums like AMP. But since this thread has so far been along the lines of information- and experience sharing rather than going head to head on issues people feel strongly about it\'s being let pass I believe.

Kudos to everyone involved for keeping things mellow!

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01/29/08 23:27

Xaviak

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

I always thought that UH is better for the middle and lower classes. OR it's because taxes scale based on your earnings here (AFAIK :P), so the difference between classes isn't as huge as in some other parts of the world. I think....Haven't really dug into it. :P

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01/30/08 09:26

johny bravo

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RE: Universal Health Care

Questions as I am not so familiar with healthcare in Europe.

I have heard both good and bad things about UHS abroad, although to be honest I seem to hear more bad then good (as is expected because everyone loves to complain).

So here we go (mainly about England as I hear the most about it there)
1. How long does it take to get appointments: I have heard that it is almost impossible to see dentist in the UHS system and doctors are very hard to come by. I am not talking about emergency room visits but general treatments and care.

2. I have heard that a lot of the doctors/dentists are not part of the UHS system and operate private practices. In addition I have heard that many people go to other countries to get operations. Is this true?

3. What is the quality of the doctors in the UHS system, and your ability to choose/change doctors? Is it like public defenders in our legal system where its a crapshoot, you get who you get?

4. What is actually covered in the UHS system? What comes out of pocket in regards to bills and fees?

Let me stress I am not criticizing but asking about. Feel free to both answer the questions and point out additional benefits of the UHS. I am sure I have more questions but I will leave it for now.

Just some of my views. I think the basic idea of a UHS system is a great idea, much like communism. Unfortunately just like communism a great idea in theory does not always work in reality. My fear is that in a country as large as the US how close to the theory of a UHS would we be able to operate.

In defense of the current health care system ( I am American)we have both my parents and myself are middle class citizens. My dad recently has gone through a lot heart troubles, motorcycle accident and some other issues. Total cost <$1000.00 out of pocket. This issues have required emergency treatments, helicopter flights ambulance trips, extended hospital stays, physical therapy, lots of preions, and continual doctor visits and treatments. These areas all covered and out of pocket expenses are minimal.

I myself have yet to pay any dental or medical bills in my life (I am 32) aside from my monthly deductions for healthcare in my paycheck.

I realize that everyone is not is the same situation but based in what i read above a lot of the stuff my family didn't have to pay for under health care insurance they would have had to in the UHS system. The helicopter medivac was $15K alone I can't imagine paying that.

In regards to U.S Politics, most of the world sees the democratic candidates because many people want to believe George Bush is evil and therefore the republicans must go. To that I have to say what have the Democrats accomplished since they took over the majority vote? Politics are pretty straight forward and if you follow these rules you stand a chance to get elected

1. Advocate change, no plan needed. IN fact a plan is bad because they can rip a plan apart

2. Make the other guy look bad, the nastiness that is smear tactics is common in politics. Take the pressure off you by diverting it to the other guys problems (aside from Obama so far)

3. Stay general you have to try and keep everyone happy. Don't take a stand on anything and be ready to explain your flip flopping back and forth on issues.

4. Most importantly once elected don't make any controversial changes you may not get re-elected.

I am not a good fan of politics or most politicians since most seem to be all talk and no action. On that note I think John McCain may be the best choice not because he is a republican (a very center based one at that) but because out of all the people running now I think he does have good intentions and the guts to try and make some of the changes he is actually talking about.

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01/30/08 10:10

RevBudGreen

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RE: Universal Health Care

It will be interesting to see what comes about once it is down to 2 canidates. UHC will come out because it is a focus point of the democrats and will undoubtably be brought up in debates. As will other topics that the republicans have focused on. It should be a very interesting presidential election.

2 main facts are obvious though in this election.

Bush has failed. I say this having been an early supporter of his, but I am disappointed by what has come of his presidency. But I don't hold his failures against the current batch of Republican prospects.

The democrats took over the House and the Senate with promises of this and that, none of which has come through.

So I think the American public, myself included, have a very bitter taste in our mouth over both parties right now. In my opinion, the election will come down to who the people believe is the most trustworthy, and who will get things done and done right.

Without a doubt UHC will be a major topic. McCain, who i believe will get the Republic nomination had better be ready with some sort of plan for it. I think it is something that the majority of us want. It could even be the deciding factor. You just never know.

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01/30/08 10:36

Jamnog

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RE: Universal Health Care

So here we go (mainly about England as I hear the most about it there)
1. How long does it take to get appointments: I have heard that it is almost impossible to see dentist in the UHS system and doctors are very hard to come by. I am not talking about emergency room visits but general treatments and care.

A. Dentists are hard to find and have long waiting lists sometimes and certain operations have a long witing list. personally I have never had to wait to see a doctor normally same day if its minor. transplants are the main problem i think.. im not expert on the more advanced stuff tho

2. I have heard that a lot of the doctors/dentists are not part of the UHS system and operate private practices. In addition I have heard that many people go to other countries to get operations. Is this true?

Yes for many rare or cosmetic stuff.
its a matter of choice in many instances however bupa is a private health company that operates allong side the nhs. has shorter waiting lists.

3. What is the quality of the doctors in the UHS system, and your ability to choose/change doctors? Is it like public defenders in our legal system where its a crapshoot, you get who you get?

I have no idea about public defenders you can all ways ask for a second opinion but its random who specifically you get initially.

4. What is actually covered in the UHS system? What comes out of pocket in regards to bills and fees?

easyer to ask what's not covered. breast augmentation for 11 yo is not available, cancer treatment is.

Let me stress I am not criticizing but asking about. Feel free to both answer the questions and point out additional benefits of the UHS. I am sure I have more questions but I will leave it for now.

nhs I think is different from a uhs thats being put forward.
if your going to have a system thats funded entirely by tax and one system across the whole of America. that would be immense and give government control over the way hospitals are run.

knowing little of the american health system as it stands i cant say it would be better or worse. Im just pretty happy with the fact that I got some ear drops same days as my ear infection.

the trouble with putting anything into gov hands is that it will be used as political tool as it is here. This could possibly have adverse effects.

01/30/08 11:14

clegane816

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RE: Universal Health Care

QUOTE

Good luck finding coverage of actual issues in this campaign though. The vast majority of media coverage has been more obsessed with cartoony personality "clashes" than with actual issues.

sad thing is that it's been that way for a loooonnngg time.
It's almost impossible to figure out exactly what a candidate stands for, but you can find pages of dirt on what their opponents have done wrong. Bill Clinton was elected president without ever stating what he stood for. Whatever was the hot topic of the hour, he just said that was a serious issue and needed to be looked into and changed for the good of the country without saying what was actually bad or what he wanted to do about the issue in question.

and, my opinion about why the dem race is getting all the attention is due to the last 6 years, Bush(and all republicans) are the root of all evil in the world. I would not be surprised if the news came on and said Bush is the reason people get flat tires.

edit: universal health care would be a great thing, if only we could get some sort of control from the government. Too long in the US, healthcare has almost no oversight into their policies. the whole referral system is nothing but a kickback payoff system. you go to doctor A and pay your $20 copay fee, he gives you a referral to doctor B and charges your insurance $80 for the visit to doctor A where he doesn't do anything but give you a name and phone number. Doctor B chan charge your insurance double because he is a "specialist" and this is a referral. Doctor B pays doctor A for sending you to him.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

01/30/08 11:23

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