GameAmp: Performance or Concept

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Dalilean

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/21/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

Performance or Concept

I got into CoH because I am a comics fan. I love well writen characters with a thought out concept. Characters who are defined, where you can see the concept in the image, the powers, the story, the evolution. After some time playing, I noticed just how much number crunching and game efficiency is used over concept and story. How you HAVE to define a transport power at 14, how animation length is more important than animation look. When someone talks about their toon, they throw the "built analisis" spread sheet! Not a mention on why they chose this power or that set, other than numbers. Their is nothing wrong with that, if that is your thing.

Me, I prefer concept and story. Maybe it's my RPG days, but every aspect must coicide. Choosing Super Jump because it's the most eficient travel power is not for me. Hell, maybe he does not even have travel power. Not everyone in comic world has super speed. For some, super speed is their ONLY power. The theme, the concept must go into every aspect.

and you?

02/25/08 19:15

lani

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 521
Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 28 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

Way in your camp here.

Roughly put, the mechanical game is to me secondary to the 'real game' the stories told through the game, by either the developers, the community or both.
And I pick Super Jump because it's Fun not because it's efficient. :-)
When a toon of mine has wings, she'll take flight though.

On the other hand, I believe the primary function of any game is to have fun, so I'm not a 'background nazi' either. I'd just as happily make a toon because I think something will work in a fun way and try it out. On such a toon, concept takes a backseat.

MMORPG (Roleplaying): Mostly Men Online Role-Playing Girls
MMORPG (Acheivement): Miserable Malcontents Online Rehashing Past Glories
MMORPG (PvP): Macho Men Obviously Really Prefer Griefing
MMORPG (itemization): Misers May Obfuscate Recently Purchased Gold
MMORPG (Social): Virtual Worlds with Virtual Wealth and achievements, but with Real People with Real Feelings.

02/25/08 19:31

Darkdragon405

Posts: 0
Joined: 10/21/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

I prefer giving myself a little leg room so that my build is strong enough so that I can grab a (relatively) crappy power (like Flurry for my kitty blaster FelineShot...probably ^_^)

Edit: erm...I prolly shoulda read the posts first. To attempt to relate a little better, that same toon is getting ss+sj, when I usually get my blaster's flight (it fits my playstyle better) but i'm breaking the mold for the kitty concept =]

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

You'll see me on the Gameamp global channel as "Shadow Blaze 405"

Triumph:
Duos lvl 15 DM/Regen Scrapper
Light Fang lvl 32 NRG^2 Blaster
Duos Blades lvl 10 DB/Regen Scrapper

I'll add more once I get off my PSP ^_^

02/25/08 20:05

Falcon15

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Posts: 6
Joined: 09/02/2005
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RE: Performance or Concept

Not to sound like a Brady but...concept, concept, concept. I build a background first, even just a vague outline or idea, nd flesh it out either as I am building my character or fully flesh their background out after I start playing the character. Some have novella length backgrounds like Enath or just short one to two paragraph backgrounds like Furon, Kthun, or Goblynn. I really love the creative process of taking powers that everyone could (potentially) have and making them unique to my character through concept. I even restrict some power selections (such as not selecting Temperature Protection for Furon, my fire tank, as his elemental nature makes him vulnerable to cold).

I always check other people's backgrounds out and praise those worthy of having put at least a little effort into the creation process.

"The most skillful sword never leaves it's sheath" - Japanese Proverb
No matter how powerful and mighty you are, a bullet between the eyes will seriously screw up your day.

YIM: tarient

02/25/08 20:26

thejeni

Posts: 26
Joined: 08/12/2004
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

I personally have always gone w/ what I consider fun to play. For me I tend to come up w/ a concept after I create a character and try to stick w/ that concept, but it has gotta be fun. I've never been one of those number crunchers in any game I've played. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being powerful, but I don't consider sitting down and figuring out all the math to be fun.

I also tend to not read up on any powers or what not before leveling a character. With my main in CoH I learned about the powers that were available as they became open for me to choose them and decided at that time. I never plan ahead, I pick what I think will be the most enjoyable at the time and give it a whirl...

Siggy created by DeathFetish.

02/25/08 21:57

Phedre_D

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 396
Joined: 05/09/2005
Credibility: 23 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

Concept almost all the way for me. Even before I pick a powerset I have a name and a background in mind. The few times I want to play a specific powerset I first think up a character that sort of fit with the general idea of the set. Basically a character without character is no character to me.

And as they progress I pick their powers as they come available. No planning ahead, and definitely no number crunching. My characters are almost living virtual beings, not robots. If I would plan ahead the journey would become a grind. And the journey is the only thing that matters to me. Once they reach 50 I am done playing with them. I think my level 50 characters have played maybe 2 hours over the last year.

02/26/08 03:32

Donovan Wolf

Posts: 2
Joined: 03/03/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

for me it's pure concept,

I collected comics and played ol table top rpg games since I was 12. . .im 35 now if that says something.

I love coming up with an idea and then working it our on mids hero designer to ensure the concept doesnt fall on it's face and is strong enough to stand on it's own.

Quite a few ppl scoffed at me back when I first started this game with an invul/axe tank. axe is notoriously slow on it's animation and it's end heavy so alot of ppl tend to avoid it for other melee power sets. To me however, I loved the idea of a midevil warrior that won the gods favor and now weilds an enchanted axe of might, but ended up in the present, thus he fights evil while trying to find a way back home.

And dont get me started at how many ppl ranted when I made a peacebringer. "if you like to blap that much why dont you just make a fire/energy blaster?" Once again I loved the idea of the build and it's potential. To me the idea of a werewolf who merged with a kheldian was too much for me to resist. Now my Silver puppy is my ultimate gate crasher. I love bringing this charcater out, he is easily recignizable by other people and can even stand on it's own in recluses victory. (I managed to fight a brute to a standstill, and the gold farmers in there think i'm the devil hehehe :) )

Triumph server
Big Puppy-lvl 50 super strength/energy aura brute
Silver Puppy-Lvl 50 Peacebringer
Gargoyle Icestorm-Lvl 50 ice/storm controller
Nether Puppy-lvl 28 Warshade
Candella Midnight- lvl 34 ill/kin controller
Captain F Bomb-lvl 35 dark/elect defender
Porcupine X-lvl 32 spine/willpower scrapper
Various others. . .altoholic maximus
Virtue
Donovan Wolf-lvl 50 Invul/axe Tank
Knights of overkill Forever!

02/26/08 03:50

dougnukem

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/21/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

There is no right answer really, other than it boils down to what is fun for you. Concept is more fun for one person, whereas, effective builds are better for others.

Me, I tried concept, and hated it. I try to get a blend of both honestly, but I won't take away effectiveness for a little concept, just not my thing. :)

Official Global Heroics Boozer
Lifetime Member of the National Potstirrer Inc.
*I am an AoE addict! *

02/26/08 08:17

Sturmwolf

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Joined: 02/09/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

I always try to get both.
But to be honest, if the performance is to bad, I delete the toon.

I'm listening to real music.
Real Rock, real Gothic, real Rap, real Soul, real Funk...etc

(If you feel insulted by any of my posts.
Remember first, that I'm not writing in my native language.
You might missjudge me.)

02/26/08 09:12

Aurrius

Posts: 31
Joined: 06/11/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

Concept > Performance is one way to go.

I prefer Concept + Performance though.

@Aurrius | Paragon Knights | Ultimate Darkness | Union

QUOTE

His name was Hearthbourne
Plays City of Heroes till the break of dawn
He likes his Scrappers
But will not settle for those Blappers
But when he gets out Thundercharge
Those PvP'ers die in the large

- @Artic-fire

My guides:
Broadsword/Regeneration Scrapper
Claws/Regeneration Scrapper
Energy Melee/Electric Armour Brute
Dual Blades/Willpower Scrapper

02/26/08 09:13

Lightfoot27

Posts: 1
Joined: 01/16/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

Way back when I started, it was all about concept. It didn't even occur to me until pvp came around that people were so build concious. As the years passed though... I wanted to be able to keep up with everyone else, and just really enjoy my role in a team.

I still make certain characters for concept, most of which are fairly solo capable so as to be played without others being down on them, but I also make characters that fit a specific role in a team and build a concept from there.

After all the nerfing, the idea of imbalanced heroes went right out the window (such as no more wolverine level healers or truly almost invulnerable superman-like tankers) which I actually enjoyed. I certainly didn't mind not having the uber set, as the comic book world certainly never had an "everything must be equal" rule. And after that, concept wasn't the draw to me it once was.

BEST TEST ANSWERS EVER!
"Who was responsible for inventing the cotton gin?"
"I'm unable to divulge that information as it may compromise our agents in the field."

"What was the date of Columbus' journey to the americas?"
"I do not believe in linear time, the past and future are one, existence in the temporal sense is illusionary... this question is therefore meaningless and impossible to answer."

-Calvin and Hobbes

02/26/08 09:23

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

In my opinion, the most effective character is one that melds concept and functionality. An extremely functional character is going to get boring without a fun concept to keep you interested. On the other hand, an extremely concept based character that's functionally gimped is also not going to be any fun to play.

So...meld the two. :)

City of Heroes/Villains
Onion - L50 - Katana/Super Reflexes/Body Mastery Scrapper
Scotch Bonnet Girl - L50 - Fire Aura/Fire Melee/Pyre Mastery Tanker
Aurora Australis - L41 - Willpower/Energy Melee Tanker

02/26/08 11:10

pyro master

Posts: 0
Joined: 07/21/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

i usually think of a concept, then go check out powers that are good, and go with the concept. i will say that concept will be fun, but if the toon dies repeditively, its not any fun at all. so i try making concepts that have a good in game strength to them.

02/26/08 12:58

lani

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 521
Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 28 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

QUOTE

So...meld the two. :)

Indeed, those toons where concept and performance are a happily married couple are the toons you end up playing the most imo.
You really can't neglect either, it's more what comes first and what has the focus. CoX is flexible enough to allow enjoyable toons with either starting point.

02/26/08 13:20

Electro

Posts: 7
Joined: 04/07/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

Performance and concept are not necessarily always mutually exclusive. I think it is possible to do both. You can pick performance powers and be creative enough to think of any number of reasons as to why any particular power fits your toon's concept.

When I make a new toon, i usually let concept dictate what general powersets to choose. If I cannot think of a decent reason for a blaster to have both Ice and Energy powers, then I won't make one. However, once I choose a powerset combo, then it is usually performance-driven after that.

02/26/08 13:21

Solarix

Posts: 32
Joined: 08/13/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

I usually go for concept over going just by performance, so most of my builds are sound enough so that they can survive on a team, but have a power or two that many wouldnt normally take. This usually means team teleport or whirwind or something thats fun and concept-y, but is only situational as far as usage.

My DeviantART (the comic is going up, page-by-page about once a day!)
City of Heroes
Global Name: @Lethal Dose
Virtue
Lady Arya - lvl 50!! D3 defender(main)
Luna Moonlink - lvl 27 Peacebringer
Mr Galactic - lvl 20 Fire/Fire Blaster
Ethereal Phoenix - lvling Fire/Kin Controller
Aurelei - lvl 26 Warshade
Zhaan - lvl 18 Storm/Sonic Defender
Amazing Alice - lvl 21 Dark/WP Scrapper
Clara Wink - lvl 28 claws/regen scrapper
Imamu - lvl 24 sonic/ice blaster
and various others...

Freedom
La Psypathe - lvl 34 FF/Psy Defender
True Psight - lvl 28 illusions/empathy controller

Plus, I play Guild Wars.

02/26/08 15:28

Darkest Medicine

Posts: 0
Joined: 04/01/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

I gotta say I love the whole concept thing. Just like my main toon Darkest Medicine, he started out looking monstrous. He was evil, and wanted to be good again. As he leveled up, he got more human like and now he looks like he does in my pic. I got a robot that takes a black and white view on baddies, and what is "honorable". My main villian is a mastermind mutant that can bring the dead back to life. He wanted to be a hero but was shunned and now is angry and has revived his hero friends as his puppets. I don't do a ton of roleplaying, but I got the binds that say things that fit the specific toon. My SG is concept crazy and we love to compete on biographies and making our look fit our powers. That way it keeps us really in the game. I understand the whole wanting a strong build, but for me I gotta have a toon I feel is fun. Lord knows I've deleted a bunch that I didn't "feel" good playing. But that's just me.

02/26/08 17:16

lani

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 521
Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 28 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

QUOTE

Kinda the opposite of my Char Dreaming then, who becomes more demonic over time. I love to use the Costume slots to denote stages in the toon's development. That's really the next step from conceptualizing your character. Letting it grow and develop. That's RP that is :-)

02/26/08 18:31

Warron Peace

Posts: 0
Joined: 06/06/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

Well, I'm basically a performance kinda guy, who lets his characters develop personalities within my mind while they develop. My Spine/Regen is kinda a maniac, going crazy and killing everything in sight. My Fire/Kin is cocky and always in a rush, because he's my fastest killing toon and also the most powerful in most situations, as he can generally annihilate any large spawn he faces. My Stone/SS is proud, very proud. He's survived against impossible odds to come out successfully, and is the only toon I have that has managed to solo an actual AV class enemy (Envoy of Shadows, at level 37 and with no IOs).

My main that I'm working on the most right now is my Kat/SR. I picked the sets for performance ability, wanting to see just how tough a scrapper I could make. Originally when I was making her she was a Mutant, but when I got into designing her costume, I came up with a concept behind her that is more Science based, so I went back and gave her the more accurate Origin. So now she is Hebi Senshi (which means roughly Snake Soldier), a deadly assasin using her Bio-Organic symbiotic body suit to help her survive against all odds, while giving her distinct advantages over her opponents, allowing her to get in incredible hits when least expected (conceptual Critical Hits, scrapper inherent ability).

That's how I took a high performance build and turned it into an incredibly fun concept. The performance keeps me going playing her, but people very often comment on her costume and Biography. =D

Whatever is fun for you, thats what you should do. As long as you are able to help your team, or solo at will, and have fun doing so, then take whatever powers you want and laugh off any criticisms.

W.P.

02/26/08 20:31

Hemlut

Posts: 0
Joined: 06/18/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

I start with a name/consept which gives AT and power type. From there I go with powers to fit but the consept may drift with play but I don't respect (but for that one time when I choose a power after a bottle of wine to many).
Saying that if you want to power play/number crunch at least do a line to your background, please. I find it odd that toons in the higher levels, which means hours of play, without any background. Yes, I look at background stories while waiting for people to turn up. Helps pass the time and can make the wait worthwhile.

02/27/08 01:22

Mech beta

Posts: 0
Joined: 02/17/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

I always try to stick more with concept > number data. It makes a toon more fun, and when a toon is more fun, you get more out of it. Sometimes the powers just so happen to be omg l33t, but I don't know that when I make the character. Sure I'll use Mid's to wip up a build when I wanna make a new toon, but I'm doing that to flesh out the character more.
Example:
With my scrapper, BS/WP, I took disembowl at 26, (great animation yum yum =D) From there I altered his appearance and story line to say he buffed himself up while training to allow him to swing his sword so hard.

I thought it works, sometimes you just have to combine the two.

City of Heroes
Burnt Scar 50 Fire/Devices/Fire blaster - Triumph
Goblino 33 Broadsword/Willpower Scrapper - Triumph
City of Villains
Mech Beta 50 Robotics/FF Mastermind - Triumph
Demon Juggernaut 20 Energy/Invul Brute - Virtue
Brawl: R.O.B!
**Post ends here**

02/27/08 06:08

Phase_of_Echoes

GameAmp Staff
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Joined: 05/03/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

All my toons are based on concept or I would never leave the character creation screen. I spend an insane amount of time thinking about names,power selections,orgin,archetype long before I wonder how many mobs I can take on, or how fast will I level this toon.

If I can write a story to it I will keep it. Granted I have some toons that I have not written a bio for, I will eventually.

02/27/08 06:57

Perceptor II

Posts: 0
Joined: 01/25/2008
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

The best characters are concepts that work in game. Abana is my favorite character to play both because she's my most fully developed character conceptually (it'd take a while to fully explain her) and because she's my most powerful character relative to level. The only drawback is that it's hard to come up with a way to explain how a woman of living stone has one of the travel powers. Then again, she can jog around and use the tram just fine, and a tanker whose powers are all focused on fighting ability isn't such a bad idea.

I'm an incurable altoholic, but most recently I've played as these characters:

Abana (hero, Champion), lvl 36 mag tanker, stone/stone/fit
The Ballplayer Reverend (hero, Champion), lvl 14 nat tanker will/mace
Shrathala (hero, Triumph), lvl 12 mag scrapper, dual/dark
Fat Kat (villain, Pinnacle), lvl 10 mut brute strength/will
Souleymane (hero, Champion), lvl 14 mag defender, dark/psy
Saffron Bow (hero, Triumph), lvl 5 nat blaster, arch/dev

02/27/08 11:09

Str0ker

Posts: 0
Joined: 07/31/2006
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

I'm loving this topic. Me and my friend that play together all the time are always fighting about this. I can't play a character with no concept for very long, I need a little background. Like an actor I need to know what my motivation is, with out it I just can't get behind a toon 100%. He however is 95% numbers and always has something to say about my builds. (Even though I can beat him in PvP 75% of the time)

http://www.secretworldchronicle.com/bookone.php

02/27/08 13:19

RonJ73

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 2
Joined: 01/10/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

My Willpower/Energy tank, I based off of the ingame heroine Aurora Borealis. Aurora Borealis is an Energy Blaster (basically) with Psi talents. So I created Aurora Australis. She's got similar powers, but has focused her energies into melee attacks (Energy Melee) and her Psi abilities are defensive in nature (Willpower).

So, conceptually sound and functionally sound.

02/27/08 16:46

lani

GameAmp Staff
Posts: 521
Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 28 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

QUOTE

My Spine/Regen is kinda a maniac, going crazy and killing everything in sight.

I think that's called method acting, isn't it? ;-P

02/27/08 16:48

BNC-5S

Posts: 3
Joined: 07/21/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

When I create a toon, it's more of which comes first, concept then story, or story then concept. I never built a toon specifically to maximize numbers.

My first toon, BNC-5S, was created from a concept. I wanted to create a robot that shoot lasers. The closet AT to that was an energy/devices blaster. As I played him, a story started to form and wasn't written down until he was level 30. Once that story was written, I felt the urge to expand on it and created toons just for that purpose. Before I knew it, I maxed out my toons slots on Pinnacle with a story that spans 9 heroes and 3 villians :) I discovered through writing those stories that the game is deeper and I am more attached to my characters as a result.

I've loaded all 12 stories onto Gameamp, so check them out if any one of you guys are interested :)

02/27/08 19:27

jfire90

Posts: 3
Joined: 06/30/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

hehe, i hate to go against wat u guys are goin for...but i have no concept at all in my characters ^_^; i go with powers that i think will be good. I also only act like myself, and hvae no rp at all. To me this is still fun, but im not into the story thing

02/27/08 20:05

Perceptor II

Posts: 0
Joined: 01/25/2008
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

QUOTE

Which is fine. When you get down to it, the point of the game is to have fun. Whether that's accomplished through maximizing in-game effectiveness or creating a character whose backstory would take up a six-issue miniseries is up to personal preference.

02/27/08 20:12

robot mind

Posts: 1
Joined: 05/03/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: Performance or Concept

yep.

me i like numbers with a bit of backround.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

I'm not a altoholic...no really i only have 1000+ toons...thats not..really...never mind.

Ninja Strike!!!

02/27/08 20:14

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