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Rockshock
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We all know the pros and cons of speccing in Fire or frost, but what are the pros and cons of specialising in Arcane?
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| 03/02/08 09:44 |
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cswella
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Arcane Missiles doesn't get interrupted.
Easier on your mana, increased mana, Clearcasting, 30% mana regen while casting.
Allows for more versatility using both fire and frost interchangeably. You're basically an all around mage.
Not many people have resistance to Arcane, so there's less chance of finding an enemy who resists you.
Threat Reduction by 40% by Arcane Spells. Fire and Frost has 10%.
Little more Self-survival skills: increased armor, reduced damage from physical, more resistances, mana shield buff, Blink cost reduction.
Buffs Damage of Fire, Frost, and Arcane; instead of specializing.
CONS:
Less damage than Fire.
Less Crowd Control (cc) than Frost.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 03/02/08 11:01 |
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Xaviak
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Cswella covered up quite a few pros and cons. ^^
Unfortunately, I can't be much of help since I haven't played mage that much. :S
Welcome to the WoW forums though. ^^
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 03/02/08 11:40 |
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Mitch
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correction on the dmg part...its always better dps then frost, however its ALSO better then fire until you obtain real gear. if your looking from a raid perspective go arcane untill u get most/all t4(preferably full pve epics) then go fire and you'll gain a dps boost.
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| 03/02/08 17:19 |
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Thundarpants
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Another bonus to going with Arcane is the ability to do well without much hit rating gems and gear right off the bat. The Arcane spec is a great beginner spec for raiding with entry level gear. Fire specs need hit just like my Destruction spec'd Warlock.
For a caster, a miss is worse than low DPS stats. It really kills your overall output when you see that "RESIST" after a nice juicy wind up.
There are two different varieties. The Arcane/Frost and the Arcane/Fire. Our guildies are all using the Arcane/Frost so I do not have an example for you to use.
This is a tried and proven Arcane/Ice spec that a friend of mine uses if you need to know where to start:
Nosgnehc
As with any spec, there are effective applications of it as well. You have to know how to "lay that pipe".
Another awesome boon is that Curse of Shadow also increases Arcane damage. When you run with Warlocks they won't have to be conflicted about putting up Curse of Elements to aid overall Raid DPS. Granted, we still have Fire Mages with very well developed gear. And there are usually enough Warlocks to curse as needed. But in 5 mans(especially heroics) a Warlock and an Arcane Mage are working together to generate some sick DPS and make the runs go smoother.
Even though Fire does generate more DPS. It's not tons more. And with no need to gem slot heavy with +Spell Hit you can concentrate on solid DPS, Crit gems and enchants. You will always be able to generate raid quality DPS and be a little different in the process.
Arcane has sort of taken the back burner to Fire and Frost for a long time. With the damage numbers I'm seeing on poorly geared Arcane Mages I have no idea why. They can dish it out big time. And be out of the cookie cutter Fire and Frost guys.
Probably not the best for PvP.
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| 03/03/08 10:08 |
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meumesmo
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The problem with arcane is the heavy mana use, if not used right it can drain your mana pool in no time. Slow in PvE is just horrible and it costs way too much mana it's a shame for a 41 point talent, arcane blast in the other hand is very nice but it can really drain your mana pool. Arcane Missile is awesome too, but the heavy mana makes it "use it properly" or in other words better used with clearcasting. Now with 2 pieces of Tier 5 Arcane becomes really viable for serious raiding and to top the damage meter.
To sum it all up like TP said arcane is there more to compliment the other trees, it's sad to say but it's the truth.
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| 03/03/08 12:31 |
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Thundarpants
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Not really what I said.
Yes it is a little bit of a mana hog...... But not unmanagably. Not any worse than my Destruction spec'd Warlock. And I wouldn't consider it only a booster for the other two. It is good in it's own right.
Most Mages sit on their Mana Emeralds where my bud eats em like skittles. I've never seen him out of mana any more than a Fire Mage. It simply takes a little more thought and effort in mana management with this spec.
Also keep in mind that without the need for +hit rating gems you could put more effort into improving the MP5 stats. But they weren't all that concerned about that attribute either.
Now in the upper end content. The hard core Mage specialists I know do go back to Fire or Ice. But you would not need to if you liked the spec as a whole. There is something about the way he did the Arcane/Ice spec I posted that improves his mana conservation. The reason they are not using the Arcane/Fire version is because of the loss of that particular talent. But that's where I get a bit fuzzy on the spec. Lemme throw it out on my forums and see if they can elaborate.
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| 03/03/08 13:05 |
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meumesmo
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What is your friend's main nuke? AB, AM or Frostbolt?
Edit: Everyone has their playstyles, preferences and opinions. In my opinion I would never recommend that Arcane Build, I say Arcane and not Arc/Frost simply because frost is not really doing anything there. If he's raiding he's probably experienced enough to know that he's is nowhere near hit rating capped with frost and he probably doesn't even use frostbolt because he knows it would be a total waste of a big "resist", elemental precision would be a must there for frost to be viable for raiding or just stack a lot more hit rating.
Another thing, PoM is almost of no use, frostbolt casts in 2.5 seconds with imp frost, PoM for frostbolt is a waste it saves you no time at all and has no after effect, like a pyroblast.
In my opinion Arcane is viable if you invest a little on fire and/or has the gear to back it up. That is the sum of my view on arcane.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 03/03/08 14:11 |
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Thundarpants
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From what I've seen he's almost always channeling Arcane Missles. He only uses the occasional Frost Bolt as a filler while he's waiting on some sort of cool down. But other than raid bosses, nothing lives long enough for him to do that.
They have some sort of macro or something that they use to know when to start channeling it again. It has a lot to do with how they do that spell.
I think Icy Veins has something to do with it too. *EDIT* Looked at the talent tree. This can't be it.
I have a post up on my guild forums. It'll probably take a day or so to get the responses I'm after.
Really, it was a suprise to a lot of the seasoned players how much damage they did with such crappy gear. And once geared.....It's aggrivating to try and keep up with them on my Lock. But dead stuff in the raids makes everybody happy(just not my damage meters =P).
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 03/03/08 14:34 |
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Thundarpants
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OK, sorry it took so long to get back to Y'all on this. I had to wait on the Mage I knew to return from vacation and we got tied up in guild management crapolla.
There were a couple different styles.
Nos basically runs straight up Arcane Missles only.
Channel Arcane Missles.
Eats a Mana Emerald.
Channel Arcane Missles.
Drinks a mana pot.
Channel Arcane missles.
Eats a Mana Emerald.
Evocation if still running low.
He reports that he never really has any mana problem with Boss fights at or around the 6 minute mark. Which most Karazhan bosses should be down in approximately that ammount of time or less.
The other Arcane Mage in the guild basically does the same thing, accept they mix in an occasional Arcane Blast for mana conservation in their attack routine. But it's mostly channeling Arcane Missles.
The big bonus to these Arcane Mages for early Karazhan raiding is that the spec gives you hit rating so you do not have to concentrate so much into enchants or gems to do so. You can concentrate on Spell damage and Spell crit stats a lot more. And if you wanted to go back to Fire or Ice specs, you can start with this spec and aquire gear with hit rating on it as you go.
Most raiding guilds will also require a certain hit rating on a caster, with Arcane they can allow a lesser geared player to join raid activities sooner.
But it is a huge mana hog, and you had better be able to keep yourself heavily stocked with Mana Pots for any long raid night.
And Icy Veins does stack with the Shaman Heroism, and they are not nerfing that in 2.4. So most of the time the Shamans are coordinating their Heroism timers with the Icy Veins timers for all round uber DPS.
I've watched lesser geared Arcane Mages eat up a DPS chart in a group full of Epic'd out raiders. It's a great way to get your foot in the door as fast as possible for a raiding guild, and then you can go back to Fire or Ice later if that is your preference. The raid leaders and organizers should not have any problems with you respec'ing once you get the +Spell Hit gear needed to make those specs more effective.
One word of warning though. From a career caster's point of view:
You can start applying the DPS steady VERY quickly with this spec and attack routine. So you will also gain aggro potentially faster than the Tank can generate it. You will see Arcane Mages jump up the DPS charts almost imediately, where my Warlock as a curse or DoT to apply before winding up hard hitting Shadow Bolts. That DPS gain comes with threat gain.
I buy some time with that application of DPS to let the Tank gain more aggro. So hold off just a little to let them build enough threat so you can channel to your heart's content, and be very familiar with threat tracking mods like KLH and Omen, and where your Ice Block button is on the action bars!
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 03/20/08 08:36 |
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meumesmo
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Ok, so seeing your last post, it seems that you your friend has to be on top of his mana pool. That's the problem with arcane, AM is simply an awesome skill too bad it costs too much, but do some rotations and hope for clearcasting to pop then "Missile Away" hehe. AM with some nice crits and good gear is about 1k per tick, that's insane.
Anyways, now that Blizz made mana emerald a 3 charge use, I can see it being more viable.
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| 03/20/08 09:39 |
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Thundarpants
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Oh yeah, and one other thing....... They shoot for bigger mana pools than Fire and Frost. I forgot to mention that. Mixing in Intellect enchants over damage sometimes, look for MP5 gear and shoot for gearing pieces that specifically have high Int stats.
In the end they are usually bone dry on mana by the end of the fight, but the boss is dead and their numbers look very sweet on the damage meters. Then its time for a tasty Mana Biskit and some idle chat......lol
Only a few Mages I know do this spec much past good Epic level gearing. Nos is dedicated to it, but the others simply use it to get raid quality DPS together to be able to step into Kara and be effective for the team with minimal 5-man gear blues. Most of them spec back to Fire or Ice once they get their gear in order.
Arcane is basically the "Starter" build for raiding, but not usually the "End Game" spec.
*EDIT* Damnit, I keep forgetting little tid bits of info here!
In a raiding situation the curse the Warlock puts up is also important. Generally you have to choose between Curse of Elements or Curse of Shadow. This is usually dictated by which population is larger; Fire and Frost Mages, or Warlocks and Shadow Priests.
Here is one of the uber benifits of going Arcane for a while........
Curse of Shadow also boosts Arcane damage!
Warlocks will love you for allowing them to put up CoS which really benifits them more. At least until they see you kicking their ass on the DPS meters partially because of their curse! But this will allow the Warlock and the Mage both able to take advantage of the same curse.
In 10 mans it's much harder to get enough Warlocks to do both curses. It's always going to be a good night when both major casting classes are benifiting from the curse.(Not going to add Elemental Shamans to this convo, nothing the Warlock has boosts Nature damage.)
Dropping bosses and trash faster is yet another way of mana conservation for all casting classes. If you can dump heavy DPS and have a Tank that can build threat at the level of your DPS dispensation, then mana issues are reduced greatly.
As an example, we drop both Attuman and Maiden in approx 3 minutes. Moroes, Curator and Shade in approx 4-5 minutes. Sure the Mage is almost out of mana..... but the fight is over.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 03/20/08 09:56 |
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