GameAmp: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

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everdream

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Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

yea, yea, yea, lets just get straight to the fact that i know Ursan Blessing is used in a lot of farms, so on, groups, it's highly powerful... blah blah blah, very good in almost any group...

lets stop there that i recognize the abilities of Ursan Blessing and the skills associated with Ursan Builds.

k,

from a player-skill point of view, reliance on this build will (not might) make lesser players depend on it for being any sort of use to a group. stacking a player up with seemingly over powered skills so that they kill things faster does not make them a good player. there is no tact in running ursan skills, it makes players use less strategic placement and more 'lets just run in and start attacking and being static while doing so, only moving to go on to another target!'

i try my hardest to avoid using skills in my builds that are from any of the track titles, let alone an entire bar revolving around a PvE only skill that doesn't exist anywhere else in the game.

most PvE players are already sub-par in the way they play the game, what better way to aid them in becoming more skillful by creating this build! LOL,... NOT!

upon it's enevitable nerfing, these players that hinge their 'PvE Success' on this build will just go back to their usual cookie-cutters i'm sure and will remain unimpressive and, well, just plain sucking.

if the skills can't be used in all parts / aspects of the game, they shouldn't really be in the game.

maybe it's Anet feeling sorry for the masses of crap players disapointed in sucking at PvE, who knows.

i wouldn't have anything against Ursan if it was just for a select few 'special' quests/missions, but not all of PvE.

/endrant.

04/17/08 18:43

Rogue

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

But it DOES make bad players useful.

EDIT: I haven't unlocked it yet. I'm bad.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

IGN: Rogue Mysst. Guest me for GvG.

04/17/08 18:59

Ataxia

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

On the other hand, it helps some classes that people dismissed because they CAN'T run the cookie cutters, like DoA for example, when it came out only war/ele/necro/monk groups would go, the other 6 classes were high and dry, with ursan, any class can run it and be useful to a group. Besides, theres a difference between the avg. ursan player, and a GOOD ursan player. The difference can be seen in time groups take to beat things like FoW hm, a pug can take MUCH longer then a guild/alliance group sometimes up to an hour.

04/17/08 19:00

Guard of Tyria

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

Obviously people will be better at using certain things than other people...

To be honest, I think Ursan was just added as a "hey, lets just chuck something ridiculously powerful in the game to try to stop these idiots complaining when we nerf skills for pvp" method. It failed.

04/17/08 19:04

Chrisworld

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

I think Ursan is a great skill. Given to tanks, using a zealous weapon, its practically endless duration, and it deals good damage. But players do use it alot and enough to start degrading the history to ToA getting into UW and FoW, ive never done a full UW or FoW run anough to have experience behind it but im hearing how Ursan has just ruined the fun in gettings teams for those elite areas. I hate when new stuff, ruins old stuff I absoultely hate it.

That is all.

~Chris

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04/17/08 19:04

HackingHippie89

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

Pro Mesmer of Questionable Tactics [Hax]

04/17/08 19:06

Ataxia

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

Beating dust of the dead horses bone when you think about it...
EotN has been out how long? and they haven't nerfed it yet.

04/17/08 19:08

Guard of Tyria

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

This too. But obviously its different if an admin starts the topic...

04/17/08 19:08

Chrisworld

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

Exactly what i thought, and after the 3rd or 4th i don't even know what number this one is i just remain calm and post the same bland boring statement over and over of how i agree with it being good but ruining PvE in a way that players now RELY on it. lol..

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04/17/08 19:08

Chrisworld

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

This too. But obviously its different if an admin starts the topic...

Yeah, but he plays the game just like us, hes not a guildwars admin, just like us, haha if he was a guildwars GM that agreed on ursan making pve going down hill, i would not know how to react.

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04/17/08 19:10

everdream

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

But it DOES make bad players useful.

yes, i know, mentioned that in the above. LOL.

as for Ataxia, yea, i can understand some of what you said in regards to getting DoA groups as a bear as opposed to actually knowing how to play your profession...

LOL, sry this has been discussed too in R&R that every profession has/can have a purpose in any HM party in any area in the PvE realm using Normal skills.

and i understand that Ursan saves time... things that lack skill save time... look at my latest Rt Solo guide, it's so easy a complete idiot can do it and it's fast because it's so easy. being easy doesn't make it good for player skill though, playing my Rt Solo Black Curtain for 3 million Exp will NOT make you a good ritualist, the same way as playing Ursan Blessing all the time will NOT make you a good *insert profession*.

=)

QUOTE

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

none that have really explained why it's bad from a player-skill point of view, just that it's rank overpowered, nothing about dynamics.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information.
Winston Churchill

04/17/08 19:12

Guard of Tyria

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

This too. But obviously its different if an admin starts the topic...

Yeah, but he plays the game just like us, hes not a guildwars admin, just like us, haha if he was a guildwars GM that agreed on ursan making pve going down hill, i would not know how to react.

If you could hear through my computer screen, you would've just heard the loudest facepalm ever.

04/17/08 19:12

Chrisworld

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

This too. But obviously its different if an admin starts the topic...

Yeah, but he plays the game just like us, hes not a guildwars admin, just like us, haha if he was a guildwars GM that agreed on ursan making pve going down hill, i would not know how to react.

If you could hear through my computer screen, you would've just heard the loudest facepalm ever.

/explain, pl0x?

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04/17/08 19:15

Guard of Tyria

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

havent there already been 4-5 posts about this EXACT thing?

beating a dead horse tbh

This too. But obviously its different if an admin starts the topic...

Yeah, but he plays the game just like us, hes not a guildwars admin, just like us, haha if he was a guildwars GM that agreed on ursan making pve going down hill, i would not know how to react.

If you could hear through my computer screen, you would've just heard the loudest facepalm ever.

/explain, pl0x?

I quite clearly know that he is not a GM. You quite clearly did not understand my other post at all.

04/17/08 19:18

smokebam_07

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

i think ursan makes farming fun like take for example if some 1 was doing DoA you could never find a chill group that wouldnt get mad/rage quit if you screwed up, or wouldnt accept you because you didnt have a mic or r10 LB. now with ursan you can go in there and actually have fun with it instead of being an uptight db....just what i think about ursan.

04/17/08 20:52

DBloodstone

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

Ursan is good for some areas but it can be overcome by knockdowns and some interrupts. I have been easily killed by having my healer mauled by even a single monster when in some areas and by hammers or interrupts in others.

With no healing abilities, it is more of a drawback than a power play. Even if you totem out in time, the decrease in HP will kill you in a fight.

I can beat areas I couldn't before but you can't solo with it unless you are really good. I'm not.

I'll stick to regular skills for that with my warrior. Ursan has really just made me lazy as you said above. I've moved back to the standard setup for my guy because I like to fight not just stand there.

04/17/08 21:53

Cocky Rocky

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

PvE was already extremely easy you could spam barrage and win just about any hard mode area which takes no more skill than ursan. Ursan doesnt affect skill in anyway since almost every player had some kind of build where you spam a few skills with out much thought and move on to the next mob.

04/17/08 21:57

everdream

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

almost every player had some kind of build where you spam a few skills with out much thought and move on to the next mob.

i know that, particularly in Normal Mode, pretty much anything goes, but when you are in Hard Mode and in areas where it takes actual profession skill to overcome the area and then that is abolished by a PvE only, title track skill... that is just plain unbalanced and stupid...

my whole point here is Ursan Blessing / other title track skills are effective at killing foes, etc... but it doesn't make you a more skilled player by running these type of skills as they aren't 'complete game' skills, they are PvE skills and only skills dedicated to members of the game that have Nightfall or Eye of the North,

therefor, making them unbalanced to those PvE players that just have say, Prophesies and Factions...

guildwars is supposed to be based on balance throughout all of it's campaign's and expansion, but these 'special' skills clearly favor those who have bought Nightfall and Eye of the North.

and they clearly favor PvE players over PvP, that or A-Net realized that PvP is actually based on real player skill to be good at it and not just a 'build' or 'special skill', so they never gave PvPer's these 'special' skills or access to them...

either way, it still makes bad players worse because they get a misconception of how the game should actually be played.

it's unnatural for a cute little mesmer to turn into a bear and start mauling things up close, same goes with a ranger, it just defeats the purpose of professions and skills related to those professions.

At least with other title tracks such as Sunspear, they have special skills like Necrosis that is a pretty nice damaging skill to use, but you need to be a necromancer or necromancer 2ndary to use it... that's not near as bad and unbalanced as... i'm a Mo/Me and i feel like playing a bear today! brawwwrrr!

give me a break. lol!

True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information.
Winston Churchill

04/17/08 22:14

Cocky Rocky

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

almost every player had some kind of build where you spam a few skills with out much thought and move on to the next mob.

I was talking about hard mode normal mode can basically be done with out a build but thats for a different thread.

tntf save yourselves great dwarf weapon finish him and many other skills would have to be nerfed if you want to put even some "Skill" into pve, even a normal b/p team with out pve skills can steam roll HM its really nothing new. Unless you're for some reason running sub par builds on purpose pve takes no skill and ursan isn't making players any worse than they already were.

Honestly who cares if a necro isnt doing what a necro is supposed to do in pve either way it will be easy.

04/17/08 23:10

mason717

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

I'm in a love/hate relationship with UB. :S

04/17/08 23:44

mason717

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

I'm in a love/hate relationship with UB. :S

04/17/08 23:44

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

if the skills can't be used in all parts / aspects of the game, they shouldn't really be in the game.

Wow. I really hope Anet doesn't take this stance for GW2. Because that's EXACTLY what needs to be done. PvE skills SHOULD NOT be affected by updates for PvP play. And there should be PvE-only skills. Too many arguments/rants/cry fests/etc have been started because Anet did not separate PvE and PvP in their updates for GW1. If Anet chooses to keep PvE and PvP skills/updates together for GW2, it will become a crappy game quickly. I can guarantee you that.

And as for Ursan Blessing itself, I /cheer for Anet adding that skill to the game. Allows sucky ass PUGs to actually complete areas. Makes crappy players actually kind of bearable to be around cuz they (should) do half decent with UB.

Before UB, I grew so sick and tired of having to team up with PUGs only to fail an area repeatedly. That's why I now almost always go with H/H or people that I know are good. But when I do need to team up with a PUG to get a certain area done for whatever reason, UB allows me and the PUG to succeed.

And if you don't like UB and think that it should be nerfed or gotten rid it, then shame on you. Be like me, become good enough at PvE that you can H/H stuff or go with guildies/friends that you know are good. Believe me, there are a 1001 alternatives to UB, it's just that most people are too lazy or too busy griping about UB to actually find one of those ways. So shut up and do things your way.

(And as a side note, I AM NOT a UB user. The only time I've ever used UB was to complete two areas in the DoA cuz all I could get at the time were crappy PUGs. So don't accuse me of using it. I'm a player that doesn't use it but is standing up for it.)

04/18/08 00:23

Rogue

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

Yeah, Anet announced that a while ago. PvP will be seperate from PvE.

IGN: Rogue Mysst. Guest me for GvG.

04/18/08 01:10

everdream

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

disagree very much on this one, PvP skills updating differently than PvE skills even though they may be the same skill? that's a WOW! way to be divisive and completely sect the game into either PvP or PvE and making it a big pain in the ass to crossover as you'd definately get used to skills doing certain things in PvE, then going over to PvP and that skills different to a point of noticing? that's stupid imo, this would work vice-versa as well.

QUOTE

And as for Ursan Blessing itself, I /cheer for Anet adding that skill to the game. Allows sucky ass PUGs to actually complete areas. Makes crappy players actually kind of bearable to be around cuz they (should) do half decent with UB.

k, you basically just restated one of my initial points, except i don't cheer for the crappy player that plays an overpowered buid as it's brainless and takes no skill.

normal mode is for sub-par/lazy players, hard mode is for good players that want a challenge, really simple, if you can't handle HM as a regular profession you likely shouldn't be playing in it. i don't think HM was designed to be a cake-walk, it was designed to 'challenge' existing players... not much challenge in an R10 Ursan, sure it's easy, makes the game really, really boring!

QUOTE

And if you don't like UB and think that it should be nerfed or gotten rid it, then shame on you. Be like me, become good enough at PvE that you can H/H stuff or go with guildies/friends that you know are good. Believe me, there are a 1001 alternatives to UB, it's just that most people are too lazy or too busy griping about UB to actually find one of those ways. So shut up and do things your way.

shame on me then... LOL, be like you? no thanks, haha. i'd much rather be me and my chars vs. yours. hehe.

i'm aware of the alternatives to UB as i play those alternatives, and i'm not too lazy or griping about UB to find a way to battle in HM. lol.

i'm actually a real player that plays a profession/role, not a PvE Perk build... that's just pathetic, if you can't see how unbalanced it is compared to the whole 'profession' theme of the rest of the game, then you wouldn't realize how crappy things like this actually do make the game.

i know Ursan Blessing's been posted on quite a bit, but i want to focus mostly on the balance of this skill/build vs. standard professions and why it's bad for GW and why things like this shouldn't be prevalent in GW2.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information.
Winston Churchill

04/18/08 01:17

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

People really need to lay off UB. Anet put it there for us to use as we see fit. End of story. Just cuz you don't like the way people are using it, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed into oblivion. And IMO, if you are taking a game so seriously that you start to get so in-depth that you soon lose yourself in the fantasy world, then wow. And don't say you aren't, because you are. Your post is pretty much a passionate statement about how UB is ruining your "world". It's a game for crying out loud! Play it your way and move on. There are a hell of a lot more important things in life then a freaking so called overpowered PvE skill in a video game. Play the game for what it is. A GAME! Have fun doing it your way and don't worry about how others play. I don't let the Uber's affect me. I just ignore them and keep right on enjoying the game. It's really not that hard. Seriously.

04/18/08 01:47

everdream

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

It's a game for crying out loud! Play it your way and move on.

OMG, the Cliche Carebear line, i knew it was coming.

this is a forum passionate towards gaming..., if everyone abided by 'it's just a game' this would be the most boring thing on earth asides from running an Ursan build... LOL, thanks!

True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information.
Winston Churchill

04/18/08 01:52

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

OMG, the Cliche Carebear line, i knew it was coming.

OMG, another topic whining about UB. I knew it was coming.

QUOTE

this is a forum passionate towards gaming..., if everyone abided by 'it's just a game' this would be the most boring thing on earth asides from running an Ursan build... LOL, thanks!

Only thing boring around here are the posts about how UB sucks. Only reason I responded to this one with my opinion is becase I'm getting tired of people bringing this topic back up. *wah wah wah* UB! *boohoo* Ruins my game! *cries*

04/18/08 01:58

everdream

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

you don't really read things do you? UB isn't ruining my personal in game experiance, i never said it did or was or ever will.

so, grab your 'Cat in the Hat' book or 'Dick, Jane, and Sally' with extra big font and learn how to read a thread before posting in it.

True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information.
Winston Churchill

04/18/08 02:07

Zephyr_Storm

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

QUOTE

After watching a lot of group requests lately i must say... Does all this "ZOMG NERF PLZ KTHXBYE" has anything to do with the fact that you can only get groups now if you are r8 or higher? I am pretty sure it's more of a "i am only r5 and i don't want to grind" problem than a "overpowered skill" matter. The thing is, PvP skill balance screwed a lot of the PvE balance of players v/s mobs, and skills as these are needed now to compensate. I doubt that Anet plans to nerf Ursan in the short term, at least no until they stop their "PvP-GvG balance".--Fighterdoken

QUOTE

This skill allows certain professions the opportunity to get into areas where player prejudiced would normally prevent them from finding a party. Yes it is a boring and uninteresting way to play, but you get groups demanding you take certain skill bars in all elite areas. Ever tried to get in a Slaver's Exile group as an Ele without taking Savannah Heat, Meteor shower and arcane echo? The cookie-cutter tank/nuke/heal style of play is just as dumb and boring as using Ursans, at least now it is obvious which players just want to get the content done, and which value a bit more creativity and imagination in their selection of skills. I hope all those players complaining about Ursans designed their own novel skill bars staying clear of the cliche skills/builds, and regularly invite Paragons, Mesmers and Assassins to join them in the hardest areas of the game. Jbuk

QUOTE

My point was that nerfing a skill into oblivion just because it promotes cookie-cutter play is pointless, since players will just fall back on the next cookie-cutter build and demand everyone uses that in order to get into a party (please note that my arguments refer to the formation of pick-up groups, obviously good active guilds have no need whatsoever for Ursans). At least with Ursan's Blessing all players (regardless of profession) can participate, other cookie-cutter teams are very specific in what professions they will accept. I don't use Ursan's Blessing, I don't like Ursan's Blessing. But my primary character is an elementalist so I can generally get on tank-nuke-heal teams (or whatever is the going trend). Other professions don't have that luxury. People with guilds and friends who can put together a well thought out and organised team (with interesting variations in professions and skills) can just ignore Ursans - no one is forcing them to use it. Casual players who can't call upon reliable teammates who want to visit the harder areas need to form PUGs, and due to the juvenile or elistist attitude of many players this normally means using a cookie-cutter build unavailable to the 'unpopular' professions. I don't like this fact, but the average PUG will kick you immediately if you don't ping a build they like (i.e. is standard googled build). Yes, paragons, assassins, mesmers and non cookie-cutter builds can be (and are) very effective, but you don't stand much chance of explaining that to the average PUG. Ursans provides a way for such professions to get on a PUG, and thus see some nice content they wouldn't get to experience otherwise. Admittedly Ursans is overused, but that is probably better than returning to the days of strong profession discrimination. Jbuk

Yes, I know it's a double post. I meant for it to be.

04/18/08 02:11

mriswith

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RE: Ursan Blessing, makes bad players worse!

There are always 2 sides of the story. At least the way i look at it:

1) UB was a skill created due to many people asking for possibilities to let not commonly used professions (like mesmer) do areas that were only acceseable by cookiebuilds (DoA for instance); UB did that: everyone can enter an high-end area without considering what proff (now they look at LB and Norn ranks lol; backfire ftw)

2) UB makes people think they are invincible... 60AL? meh UB boosts it; too bad you still notice 20AL difference between a warrior and a necro. Insignias too boost your AL? why? i need energy (as if you wwill stop fighting for longer then 1 min).

3) Going afk is easier: you just put your cat on the keyboard and make it run circles. With a bit of luck it will hit the 1,2,3 keys quickly enough for people to not notice the difference.

4) People with not much time on their hands can now also do high-end stuff. FoW used to be close to 3 hours with a balanced team. Now it takes about an hour to do everything. That high-end rewards are now pretty worthless due to that; i take for granted. As long as people do not start to complain that the GW economy is wasted due to their own overfarming i couldnt care less.

5) We are back to the 'monks have endless energy' state in the game. While most players realised after proph that monks have a pool as well; nowadays people seem to think that UB for some reason makes monks use less energy... And who are blamed again? Meh; reason i only monk for guildteams.

Ah well; UB or balanced; i play for fun; i like to keep my heart healty and my head off l33tspeak.

QUOTE

There is more than a verbal tie between the words common, community, and communication.... Try the experiment of communicating, with fullness and accuracy, some experience to another, especially if it be somewhat complicated, and you will find your own attitude toward your experience changing

04/18/08 02:18

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