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hat-of-doom

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The PvP and PvE divide.

PvP was originally meant to act as the end-game for PvE’rs and competitive players a like. This can be seen from the way some of the prophecies missions were structured, for instance the mission Thirsty River was clearly based around some of the older Heroes Ascent elimination maps. So how and why has this divide grown so rapidly since the games release and is there any way of fixing it?

One of the more commonly blamed reasons is that skills are balanced round PvP. This at face-value seems all well and good for PvP’ers, however many PvE players think they are being ignored and many think their builds get unnecessarily ‘nerfed’ due to PvP. This creates bitterness towards PvP from PvE, discouraging many PvP’ers from ever breaking in to high-end PvP (mainly GvG).

ANET has now decided to split certain key skills between PvP and PvE, thus trying to lower the PvE backlash against PvP skill updates as well as allow them to attempt to balance the PvP versions properly. What needs to be addressed now is how the PvE versions will be updated; if there is no direction from PvP updating them, will we be just left with a bunch of overpowered skills allowing PvE’ers to do what they want with them without fearing any PvP ‘nerfs’?

However, the PvE’ers who get passed said bitterness and are still interested in getting in to high-end PvP are often hit by another wall – rank discrimination and elitism. Although these are more commonly found in Heroes Ascent, many GvG guilds still require rank – be it hero, gladiator or champion – most still want them. New PvP’ers often find it hard to join HA groups due to that the majority of them require rank, and the ones that don’t are usually fame-farming groups playing builds like spiritway. New PvP’ers are then forced in to either playing fame-farming builds which don’t really develop any player skill, wait very long times in the hope of an unranked non fame farming team or not play at all. How ever elitism is slightly different; this is the common idea that all PvP’ers think they are great and look down on any new PvP’ers and PvE’ers. Both of these act as deterrents thus furthering the divide.

I’m aware that I’m probably stating the obvious for some while leaving out other key facts for the rest of you, but I’m more interested in your view-points on this subject. All members and staff are free to state their opinions, but be aware that some people may not agree with them and debating in this thread is perfectly allowed (flaming however isn’t.)

05/11/08 06:50

pOintstiveise

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

Edited by Wyat

~Bye bye

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

I swear, SOMEONE IS HOAXING MY POSTS TO MAKE MY GRAMMAR LOOK BAD!

05/11/08 06:55

Deathaxe

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

Why can't you shut up about Ursan? Just go with it.

05/11/08 07:08

Corruplt Intrept

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

I haven't posted in awhile.

Yes, there is a divide, like it or not, and it has been increasing in size since guildwars was released.

I've played in the past, and even when it was prophesies only, people started using rank as a discriminant.

There's nothing wrong with that however, in the past. Your rank really reflected how much experience you have, not how much fame you've farmed.

Well, lets just say now, that "rank" is little more than a commodity that can be achieved through practiced grilling, or in game language, farming quite a sad degradation for such a nice title name, "hero".

PvP will never be as linked to PvE as we would like it. The fact that monster skills exist in PvE is proof, as well as the "harrowing factor", so to speak, as it gives monsters that "edge" over us. Other than additional skills, players suffer from level handicap. In other words, in PvE, there is no level playing field. But that's fine really, PvE is all about meeting challenges.

Many, many players deem PvE as "unskilled" play, without the "ursanway" phenomena, this has already been occurring, sad fact really, since PvE is supposed to be more skill oriented, much like PvP. I'd like to think that Anet wanted the PvE experience to be as challenging as the PvP experience.

However, there is a dilemma here.Where's the co-ordination in PvE that exists so vividly in PvP? PvE is likened to a bunch of human-fools and sometimes, i do agree with that. PvE would never come close to PvP, however you like it, as there is no filters such as "rank" or "title".

One is not known for his potential, but for his friend's fame. That is very true in Guildwars, as of the factions expansion. By the time factions came out, guilds were already noticed. People from the guilds were already noticed. As an ex-pver myself, i found it extremely hard to get into the pvp scene, mostly due to the fact that i can't be bothered after failing too much, thanks to the lack of referrals, titles, etc..

People now are careful. they want to see the "passport" which is, the "title", before they even consider you. Even if you want to fame-farm, fame farmers have a ranker discriminant. Thats how bad and un-rad it is for PvE-ers to get into the PvP scene.

How do we stop this? Get a guild? If most have failed to notice, most pvp guilds are either elitist, which isn't bad really, except for the fact they want to see "experience". or they really, really, have zero experience. Which then, is the question, If a PvE high end wants to go PvP high end, who is there to turn to for teachings?

Perhaps some r0 have more logical thinking and gaming skills to outplay a r8. we'll never know, because he lacks the rank.

Regards,
Corruplt Intrept

Guest me for GvG's
IGN: Baine Bloodfinger

05/11/08 07:10

Corruplt Intrept

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

Someone's post got deleted....

Stating that ursan is a discriminant is not discussing. it's stereotyping.

I'm not emo, anyhow.

Mrrrrph,
Corruplt Intrept

Guest me for GvG's
IGN: Baine Bloodfinger

05/11/08 07:18

stanzhao1

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

For me this is a horrible horrible update.

They have made pve and pvp even further apart now. and now they dont have to look at pve skills anymore. If they dont even want to nerf ursan, why the hell would they nerf skills that are weaker than that already? why would they buff skills? they have no reason too.

just seems to me like theyre making pve players brainless. if there are never any skill updates everyone can just run 2-3 diff builds and thats it. no need to change. no need to buy more than 20 skills through all 3 campaigns. because with no nerfs or buffs, you need to go pvx, find the best build and use it. and it will always stay the best build.

i honestly cant see why they would ever buff or nerf any pve skils. i mean, why would they? to stop gimmick builds for over farming stuff? if they wont touch ursan what hope is there of them looking at any other skills. what exactly is overpowered in pve?

this is just an excuse to make pve players think for themselves less.

any discussion pve players had on nerfs and buffs with skills, gone. any new builds being used because skills were nerfed and others were buffed, gone. new ways to farm because a skill was changed that works in sync with another, gone.

the game will become stale, people will get bored, will buy gw2, a-net laughs at everyone while they sit in chairs made from stacks of money.

....nice....

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

05/11/08 07:44

Corruplt Intrept

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

When A-Net said they would make PvE skills unlinked to PvP skills, i'm sure they didn't mean "lets stop touching PvE" but they wanted to open up an avenue so that PvP could be more fast-paced or less powered, without influencing the pace and strength of PvE

Regards,
Corruplt Intrept

Guest me for GvG's
IGN: Baine Bloodfinger

05/11/08 07:48

Wyat_hawke

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

Personally, I think it will be very interesting to see if they are going to have an attempt at balancing PvE. That would make for some interesting ideas.

PvE doesn't need the same "balance" as PvP does, you can actually have overpowered stuff there without hurting the game. Because the end outcome of PvE is to have fun. You don't play GW because you think it's cool that everything is balanced, you play it because it gives you a sense of achievement and satisfaction.

So they could theoretically go 2 ways on it. They could either buff some of the skills from the underused professions (like mesmer and ritualist) to the insane levels to promote them back into groups, perhaps even nerf some currently overpowered stuff (though I hardly think such a thing would go down well with the rest of the community), or they could nerf ursan and leave the PvE arena as it is. I'm not arguing whetever Ursan is good or bad for the game, but I'm saying that if they would want a "final" balance on PvE, Ursan would most likely have to go.

It would be a sad thing if they didn't do anything at all to PvE, I mean, there are quite literally hundreds of skills there that could've been buffed to promote some degree of skillful play again. But the line would go on just exactly how many overpowered skills we should maintain. If you get too many, the game doesn't get fun anymore (clearing UW in 40 mins because of 8 big red buttons of dooom on each bar can't be fun in the long run), and if you have too few you end up with everyone running the same gimmick (like Ursan now). There must be a line of how many skills to receive this overpowered status, that doesn't break the game. Each profession I would argue which is not part of the "holy trinity", should get skills to promote them back into groups.

I'd certainly argue that skills that could be worth buffing would be Smiting Prayers, Tactics, Water Magic, Restoration Magic, Spawning Power (it needs to actually HAVE A FUNCTION WORTH TAKING!), and the like would deserve a buff :)

In addition, skills that promote using your secondary again is on my wishlist. The secondaries aren't used much at all these days, since speccing into 3 attributes only is the only thing that will cut it. Monks run full bars with prot and heals, warriors just train with nothing apart from a conjure every now and then, and there is in general not much incentive to spec into cross-attributes. The only real bar that tries to do so is the MB, and everyone who've played that bar will agree that it is great fun, and that it takes some degree of skill (compared to the standard nuker) to work.

hybrids should be promoted, N/Rt MM's are a fine example of something that could be reworked :)

for the PvP part, I am surprised that they have stated that they will balance skills slowly and monitor them over a long time before doing new ones or adjusting them. If anything, now that this is setting into effect, they should really try out a major overhaul, I see no reason not to. But of course, most of these nerfs could've been fixed if they just bothered to look at the VoD issue with NPC's balling up, we wouldn't have to nerf Splinter Weapon and almost every other AoE then.

But it should be pretty obvious to Izzy what he should do in PvP, there's countless pages on the issue just on Guru alone. I'll leave my judgment here until I see the balance myself.

I'm really looking forward to the next update. The idea is good, but it relies heavily on the implementation. It's a make or break thing to introduce.

I'm at least hoping they are going to try and fix the defensive meta we have atm a little bit.

:::EDIT:::

Cleaned up the thread, concentrate on the discussion please.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

05/11/08 07:50

Forumite

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

I doubt im one of the people shocked by it, its this topic that reminds me of it, those petty nerf's before have never bothered me, only on one occasion did i notice a few changes which was the Ritualist channeling stuff, but even that did not bother me as it was still powerful enough, all the fuss about OMFG NO PVE IS LOST and that have come and gone without getting much of my attention nor notice.

Im not bothering my thoughts with this either unless its something Serious, but i can't even begin to fathom what the definition of serious is about this, seeing as in the past even the smallest of seemingly changes have been regarded as wrecking PvE.

That's my point of view, im sure all the farmers, grinders and so on will probably be severely affected in their day to day Virtual Moneymaking bussiness, street merchants and big-time virtual corporate market guilds alike.

05/11/08 08:11

Wyat_hawke

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

Well, that's the whole point isn't it? How far are they willing to take this? They could just leave PvE forever be, or they could try out an major overhaul. Most PvE-ers love buffs (even though it makes fighting monsters harder, pfft), and if they introduced some buffs randomly to underused attribute lines, we could quite possibly have the game blossom again.

On the other hand, if they just leave it, they have wasted a pretty good opportunity to test stuff for GW2

05/11/08 08:19

HackingHippie89

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

see what i dont get, is this is something ALOT of people have been whining and complaining about for awhile, saying "we need pve/pvp seperation" a-net listened, and people still bitch

this just furthers my opinion that the majority of people on this site and GW in general just like to bitch about things for the sake of bitching, be it ursan, recent nerfs/buffs, pvp'ers being too "elite" or this update

05/11/08 08:58

aznese guy

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

this blows hard. I loved the nerfs and buffs just because it made me think about skills to use more and made builds more fun. Also with buffs you could see the full potential of skills rather than having some crappy useless one that anet would never nerf if it was pve only. I liked the suspense of not knowing what skills can be or how they will get changed. no more full potential for skills in pve.

quit gw for good. end of story.

05/11/08 09:03

jaffar_al_kahyet

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

Why can't you shut up about Ursan? Just go with it.

It's funny he hates ursan so much, just look at the build in this old screenshot of his....

>> Clicky <<

Age of Conan: Aeson ~ Battlescar [PvP-En] ~ Cimmerian Barbarian

Guildwars: Tydus of Ascalon ~ Proud Leader of The Preschool Teaparty Massacre [Opal]

05/11/08 09:36

CorruptNinja

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

Why can't you shut up about Ursan? Just go with it.

It's funny he hates ursan so much, just look at the build in this old screenshot of his....

>> Clicky <<

Heh nice.

Anyways back on topic;

I think it's a good thing. I'm hoping to see the 'PvP is better than PvE' and vice versa, attitude go away. Tired of people in towns that come in and call everyone PvE Noobs just because that guy has Bambi...and people that go to Temple of Balth. just to gloat about their PvE Titles and a huge fight starts...

The separation leaves a big opportunity to test skills without directly effecting the other side of GW. I'm sure it's gonna be a nice update.

"People are like slinkies; Basically useless, yet so amusing to watch fall down the stairs."

"No! He would kill you like a small dog. Let your anger be as a monkey in a piñata... hiding amongst the candy... hoping the kids don't break through with the stick!" - Master Tang

05/11/08 09:49

Aeon

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

I'm going to start my post with a history lesson (mike has covered most of it, but it is important you all understand it).

Back in the beginning, there was only prophecies. People would get stuck at Thunderhead Keep, once through, you had a few missions, no endgame green item (in fact there was no such thing as a green item). Once you got to the desert, the ascension missions replicated the 3 major tombs maptypes - Elimination, King of the Hill, and Relic Running. Once you'd completed these, and killed the Doppelganger (another bottleneck), you came out in the mission area to the glint mission. You also had an adjoining zone: Tomb of the Primeval Kings. Now, people would stumble in, get trounced once, then realise at the start, when they made their character, they could make a PvP one which started in the tombs. They did this, and slowly people started getting better at it, and accumulating fame and rank. Team Arena was connected to Droknar's Forge. The fact that the desert missions replicated the tombs maps, and the major pvp areas were connected to the PvE world was an obvious pointer that PvP was the "end-game" of prophecies. If you didn't get fame and rank here, you had to either get lucky or have a friend in a decent guild. Yes, "elitism" was already beginning to kick in.
After playing tombs, some wanted to try something else. What comes next? GvG.
GvG has always, and will always be the most competitive area. This is where I got lucky. I met a guy who was in some guild, and played with him for a bit and he told his guild leader (also his RL friend) that I was good, and got me into the guild. For most of us, it was our first PvP guild, for some, it was our first PvP experience. It actually did pretty well. The main point I'm making here is that references were important too. The main things that got you into a guild were: Rank, Total Balthazar Faction, References.
Then came the first big mistake: Sorrow's Furnace.
This introduced the new green items and was placed well away from the main outpost line. It was a major distraction and caused all the PvErs to jump with joy at the fact they could get easy perfect items and gave them something to do other than make a new character or PvP.
Next came the second mistake, and the one that turned the divide into a gaping chasm: Guild Wars Factions.
In preparation for this, Tombs of the Primeval Kings was sacked by some PvE monster things, and Tombs was moved into the Battle Isles, under the name Heroes' Ascent. Now the walking into the zone from the glint outpost didn't bring you to PvP anymore. The ones that actually knew about it farmed their fame up, leaving the ones who finally decided to find out what the PvP character did to get firmly left behind. It also introduced The Deep and Urgoz's Warren - 2 big PvE areas that could take hours to complete.

During all of this time, various balances were made to keep the GvG and Tombs/HA builds in check, some of which angered the PvE population (one of the major skill nerfs that caused outrage was "I Will Avenge You!" which got nerfed several times).

The higher rank these people got, the higher the rank they wanted their teammates to have so that they had a better chance of winning. At this point, you would have bambi+ teams, wolf+ teams, and the occasional tiger team. This was because the only way to tell someone's rank was from their emote. By the time nightfall came around, the title system made this system even more rigid.
People would now specify R5+, R8+, R10+ since you could now see exactly what rank someone was.

The PvErs see this, and go, I need rank to play but I can only play if I have rank. Then proceed to ignore the fact they could form their own teams with people they knew, or join fame farm R0 teams.

With people getting the phoenix, the divide had become so great, that the entire system was offputting to a lot of pvers, who just continued to kill their monsters.

The other thing Nightfall introduced was ridiculously overpowered skills: Avatar of Melandru and Grenth, "Incoming!", Defensive Anthem, Light of Deliverance, Searing Flames, Jagged Bones, etc etc etc. Of course, for PvE, this is cool since you get big effects and big numbers. However, for PvP, these big numbers and effects are severely detrimental to the state of the game. This of course brought about crippling nerfs to many of these skills which outraged PvErs more, claiming that ANet hates them and only cares about PvPers even though the GvG scene was the area with the real life prizes. In other words, it is important that it be skill, and not build, that wins the real life stuff.

History lesson over. Now, lets skip ahead to the current situation.

Each update - the nerfs are showered with praise by the PvPers (unless they're very odd nerfs), and cast down into the dirt and condemned by the PvErs (yes, I'm being general, don't cry to me that you personally do different). Since PvE is all about the fun, PvErs want the big splashy numbers and effects, and power creep which has been topped off by Ursan Blessing. PvPers on the other hand want their failures to be based on their mistakes, not the fact that the enemy has a ridiculously strong build. The "you can use it too" argument holds no water whatsoever here. This just makes it into a race to who can press the bomb button first. This is why the majority of skill balances are nerfs rather than buffs.

The introduction of the ZChest, and now the Z title, shows that ANet is trying to get people PvPing again, even if it is just to get the keys to get that emote or some item. There are still stepping stones into PvP from PvE: Random Arena, Alliance Battle and Hero Battle. These will at least get you some experience in what sort of things are useful in PvP.

Finally, right now, if you want a shot at learning GvG, there is in fact an elevator straight into it. The Team Love iniative has given people an opportunity to play with more experienced players, and learn about something they could never get into otherwise. If you want to learn more about it, go to www.teamlove.us and be thankful for the boost into something that the PvPers earnt the hard way, and are now giving you the opportunity to experience.

Feel free to pm me ingame if you have any Qs about what I say or about game mechanics, or just wanna talk random crap :p

Guild Wars
Main IGNs: Megido Hax / X Megido X - Seventy Two Hour [ban]

http://www.playrequiem.com

IGN: Megido, Lintra server

05/11/08 10:09

CorruptNinja

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

Yea, it's true that most PvE'rs are bothered by Nerfs. But to be honest, the ONLY one that frustrated me and slightly confused me was the 2nd Nerf for 'Watch Yourself!'. I didnt mind the recharge, but now it ends after 3 attacks :/ Im not sure the Z- Title was to encourage more PvP, because alot of people will just Farm their money and buy keys. Weird they added it so late though, especially after ive spent over 500k on Z-Keys -.-

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

05/11/08 10:19

Forumite

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

You cannot possibly understand the level that Anet works on. You could compare them to Einstein, Newton, Edison and Bill Gates. Scientists are baffled when they attempt to diagnose the Staff. At this very moment they all hear tiny ultrasonic noises that your neurotypical brains cannot begin to fathom. Miniscule points of light that your inferior senses couldn't start to comprehend are driving them insane. Your neurotipicalosity begins to bore their higher functioning brains. They can feel their meltdown level's increasing with every passing second. If you do not leave the internet, They will start focusing their Nerf Updates on you immediatly. Your Client may not be able to withstand the Update.

You better start Running.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

05/11/08 10:36

Crossbow

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

I second this. No matter wht A-net does, people will find something wrong with it.

05/11/08 10:42

The Guardian of Amp

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

Because the end outcome of PvE is to have fun.

For the first time EVER, I actually agree with almost everything you said Wyat. With one exception, the whole point of GW (PvP or PvE) is to have fun. Even right there you broke them into seperation. I do not know to many people that go to win halls or high ranking Guilds that say...."I have to go do some work now, we have a guild battle to win", or something to that extent. Whole point of the game is that, to have fun. No seperarion needed. Other than that right on.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

05/11/08 11:08

Aeon

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

For the first time EVER, I actually agree with almost everything you said. With one exception, the whole point of GW (PvP or PvE) is to have fun. Even right there you broke them into seperation. I do not know to many people that go to win halls or high ranking Guilds that say...."I have to go do some work now, we have a guild battle to win", or something to that extent. Whole point of the game is that, to have fun. No speration needed. Other than that right on.

Actually, that's not quite true. From what I heard, War Machine, amongst others have left GW for WoW because of "better prizes". You will find that there are a lot of people who only played for the prizes they could win. Note the guild name Best Before [apr] - the significance of that tag is this: April was the last monthly with real life prizes.

05/11/08 11:12

The Guardian of Amp

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

I must specify to a "T" exactly what I mean, check!:) That is such a small number of what is left. What do you think the percent of people that left due to that fact? So for the most part the higher percent of people do it for fun. Would I be correct in assuming that?

05/11/08 11:15

Aeon

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

Yes, I would assume the same. I was just pointing out the fact that there is actually a significant number that just played for prizes.

05/11/08 11:18

The Guardian of Amp

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

Point taken=)

05/11/08 11:19

Chrisworld

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

GUYS. Listen please. They changed the skills to have a PvP side and PvE side. Theres still going to be people playing happily in PvE and people playing in PvP in both. It's not the end of the game, not the end of the world. Wait for the update to advance more to show the change between both sides of the game before you guys keep making more and more assumptions on how much the game is going to suck.

~Chris

Gameamp Guides [AMP]

05/11/08 11:40

Bubbada Muse

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

The introduction of the ZChest, and now the Z title, shows that ANet is trying to get people PvPing again, even if it is just to get the keys to get that emote or some item. There are still stepping stones into PvP from PvE: Random Arena, Alliance Battle and Hero Battle. These will at least get you some experience in what sort of things are useful in PvP.

i think you are forgetting about one big maybe not so huge speed bump for pve players to get into pvp aeon. anet made it so new accounts needed to get a 10 win streak in ra, then ta to reach ha. this i think is a huge reason why pve people dont pvp. they just dont have access to ha. this may not be such a big problem now that you can buy the pvp unlock but i still think it puts alot of pvers off because it can be hard to get a 10 win streak in ta if you are not experienced.

05/11/08 13:04

mwpeck

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RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

I havnt been playing much GW at all lately, but did I miss something? From what has been said it sounds like they are splitting at least some skills into a pvp/pve version? Awesome stuff. Back when I actively played, I thought this is where they were really messing up the game. Theres so many un-used skills in PvE because they had to nerf them so PvP was fair play. Cant wait to see what they do with this, and in all honesty it doesnt seem that complicated. They already have pve-only skills that get disabled when in PvP, which means they already have a means of detecting pvp vs pve. All they need to do is add a new version of a spell and say when in pve use versionA, when in pvp use versionB. Granted its a lot more work to have to balance skills seperately for pvp and pve, I think in a game like GW where skill is required not overpowered items/i.win.buttons, you almost have to seperate the skills out. Otherwise its like using a pvp-based character (designed strictly to fight other people) for pve, which in my experience with WoW and other games (like D2) does not usually work as effectively.


Characters: • Crimson The Fierce • Combustible Crimson • Crimson Denied • Crimson The Sniper • Crimson The Healer • Crimson The Reaper

05/11/08 16:14

Belshazaarswrath

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/29/2005
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

I think the mentality that they will never touch PVE again is pretty silly. I mean this whole update REALLY panders to both parties. If anet only cared about pvpers then they wouldn't do this they would just nerf everything in PvE and make it unplayable in general. Did they do that? No. I am fairly certain that the people at Anet know that PvE will get stale if they NEVER do anything to it. So I think that in the future anet will still buff and nerf things in PvE. Just not the same way they do for PvP. Really I see this as anet looking at both parts of the game as equal and needing their own unique modifications.

Also I think the attitude that Anet will never mess with PvE again because PvP is separate is rather arrogant. That basically implies that "Oh well your form of the game isn't as great in Anets eyes as mine so it's just gonna die now." Which is obviously quite ridiculous. If anet didn't care about PvE they never would have made it. Period end of story.

05/11/08 16:29

RevBudGreen

Posts: 19
Joined: 08/12/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

Personally I think the pve vs pvp topics are old and repetitious. What gets me is they always seem to be pvp'ers criticizing the pve aspect of the game. Its never pve'ers doing it at the pvp aspect. This game will never be "balanced" in a way that make everyone happy. And no single person's idea's are ever going to be implemented. There will always be some parts of the game that some hate and others love.

So...my opinion, just enjoy the game for what it is...A GAME!!!

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Well I wish I had a nickel, For every time I fell and blamed somebody else
I'd give a ton of money to the ones I’ve hurt, And I’d still be sittin' pretty well

I've spent years losin' touch of what's right and what's real Caught up in these missions of my own
And you're tellin' me you think I’ve done so damn well While we're sittin' here a thousand miles from home

There's a hole in your wisdom, a hole in your sky
Two holes in your head where the light's supposed to get by

05/11/08 17:40

Aeon

Posts: 0
Joined: 04/23/2008
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

Ignore. I forgot that explaining stuff makes you elitist which is apparently a bad thing...

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

05/11/08 17:48

RevBudGreen

Posts: 19
Joined: 08/12/2007
Credibility: 0 pts

RE: The PvP and PvE divide.

QUOTE

Personally I think the pve vs pvp topics are old and repetitious. What gets me is they always seem to be pvp'ers criticizing the pve aspect of the game. Its never pve'ers doing it at the pvp aspect.

That's because the PvPer argument basing it off of actual facts like not nerfing ursan already, monsters being scrip-ted, etc etc holds a lot more water than "PvP is bad because they are all elitists" which is pretty much the only thing that can be said.

If you're a pvp'er then why do you even give a s*** about the pve aspect? The pve side is for people that just want to have fun. So quit worrying about it and stick to what you do. Your statement sounded very elitist. Personally, I see no "elitist" in any part of pvp. If you want my honest opinion about it...well...I'll keep it to my self. But I would be more then happy to send it to you in a PM.

05/11/08 17:52

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