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Demon Slaya of God

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Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

kk well mwpeck "told" me to start this thread so not to send another thread totally off topic so:

I've always been intrigued in how armor works... all i figured out by myself is the more armor you have, the less that very big and mean ugly thing your fighting hurts you.

But then I started thinking of how Ursan effects and connects with armor (due to mwpeck's post in This Thread), but here's where it gets interesting (as interesting as a thread can get). What about energy? I know this has nothing to do with armor and barely ursan, but it all comes together in this one question...

When thinking about all these factors, what does the community think would be the best proffesion to Ursan with?

07/07/08 20:39

Chrisworld

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

When thinking about all these factors, what does the community think would be the best proffesion to Ursan with?

Sigh, Warrior. They absorb physical damage like its no body's business and A Zealous Weapon makes you never run out of ursan power!

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07/07/08 20:42

Calypso_FtW

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

N/W with tacts shield and armor insignias, soulreaping = infinite enrgy

(i don't have a pve necro ok, but that's what i would do i think)

07/07/08 20:49

mwpeck

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

Before you read this take note that I do not have EotN therefore I have never used Ursans blessing. That being said I think it comes down to:

Take less damage or stay in ursans blessing longer between fights.

A warrior will take less damage than all others in a general sense, and an elementalist will be able to stay in ursan the longest without combat, whereas a necro will be able to last longer in-combat without fighting. All the other classes sort of fall between those because armor and energy values fluctuate based on class. That being said, finding a happy medium to fit your play style would technically be the "best" profession to ursan with.

For me, I like not dying so I would likely chose warrior, someone else I'm sure likes staying in ursan between fights, not killing a mob, losing ursan than re-using it between fights.

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

07/07/08 20:49

Muhgal Bowman

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

Paragon

They have better armor than most and better energy management than warriors.

07/07/08 20:51

mwpeck

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

Paragon

They have better armor than most and better energy management than warriors.

True, 10 more energy and only 20 less armor as their insignia would almost never be active in ursan (ok ok, 10 less armor if they use a core insignia).

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

07/07/08 20:55

HackingHippie89

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

Paragon is by far better than warrior when it comes to ursan issues

the shouts and such can be kept up indefinately with a smart team(hard to find) and easiest to spec into a command/motivation shield

07/07/08 21:17

mwpeck

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

That depends, would the paragon be the one using ursan, or would the paragon be someone staying out of ursan?

If they are staying out of ursan, their shouts only help any other paragon members if they are tanking w/ ursan. If they are staying in ursan than GL keeping those shouts up.

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

07/07/08 21:20

Vicky the merchant

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

i think hippie means like echos and such that renew with the ursan shout-
the only thing i can add about ursan is dont use the totem of man, ever-
instead switch to a low energy weapon set to end ursan, when you switch back to your zealous set you get instant energy.

07/07/08 22:18

mwpeck

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

i think hippie means like echos and such that renew with the ursan shout-

Right.....somehow missed "Allies in earshot deal +5...15 damage per attacks." when I first read it.....thought it only affected enemies therefore wouldnt effect paragon echoes.

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

07/07/08 22:24

everdream

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

i play ursan (yes, holy crap i did get that skill finally and do find it useful) as a monk.

i play as a monk Ursan for 3 big reasons.

1. i was able to Norn Point farm with groups paying me for service to monk for them regardless of my norn title track level. = win.

2. i'm max in that title and as a caster i worry far less about running out of energy...

3. this is the biggest reason... when you have a healer rage quit, go AFK or lose connection, i still serve a dual purpose and serve it very well, albeit, no elites healing or protection but still enough to keep a team going instead of all just needing to quit or slowing it down to a crawl, which also sucks.

so, i'd disagree with a warrior UB vs. my monk UB, heck, a group can lose a warrior UB and not have it effect their success...

groups most of the time cannot lose a healer and have it just be replaced. but with a Monk UB you can ;) i just fill the alternate role by being stacked with monk spells in case that happens... and it does. then you're really just down a melee char, which like i said before isn't a "party-crasher"

;) there's my explaination for a Monk UB and it's overal superiority over a warrior UB...

sure a war can take more damage and is easier on the healing team, technically,

however, there seems to be a giant overflow of stupid warrior ursans that i've healed before that use absolutely no tactics in how they operate Ursan (i know it sounds crazy that there might actually be good and bad ursans, but alas, there is, and most of them are warriors, assuming they're invincible and they do way worse in terms of taking damage.)

remember, i farmed my title "slayer of all" healing ursans and doing dozens and dozens of PUG groups, warriors and dervishes by far, by far, needed the most healing and were running out of being 'the bear' the fastest.

i need to admit, the best ursans i saw were Necromancers as it was just constant GO TIME for them... rarely saw them in down time like a warrior or dervish ursan and when they were it was usually purposeful to cast WoB or BR to keep the overal group going strong.

yep.

i don't discount the warrior profession's advantages in terms of damage reduction and battlefield survivability, i just find my Monk to be more useful running ursan overal.

edit: and being a bigger asset to a team's success... that and i just love my monk ;)

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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07/07/08 23:03

mriswith

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

Lol; as for casters theres insigs that raise AI if really needed; so warriors arent necessary to saok damage. When i used ursan i had tormentors insignia's on my necromancer. Only thing you have to watch out for is holy damage. since that's hardly anywhere in the game in multitude that it could kill you its a great armor booster. Add a -2 50% rpd and you're done =)

Profession doesnt really matter if:
- you have no sup runes; HP is of importance and since you do not use your atts anyway; its pointless in using it
- runes of vitae to boost your health even more
- zealous mod on your melee weapon if energymanagement is a problem; or use a +15e -1er mod.

As necro i brought a skilltemplate to be usefull out of ursan as well =) eeg: BR, AoZ, SoP to function as battery for the monks when they ran low.

As for armorrating and ursan; doesnt really tip the scale; you wont notice it that much on an HP between 700 and 800.

necromancer all the way

07/08/08 01:27

Cocky Rocky

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

use arcane mimicry if you really want to be both ursan and monk although that is a terrible idea anyway. you come out of ursan with 0 energy and if the group can manage with 7 ursans then theres no reason for you to go monk and if they can't manage without two monks its a terrible idea to go ursan. If you're really expecting someone to quit use heroes an 8 man heroway is still going to be better than 7 man ursanway, assuming you know what you're doing.

Paragons are probably all around best with essentially infinite energy and high armor. They also have echos that can be maintained if shouts are used properly

Warriors have a lot of armor so in terms of just being in combat they're the best, but are the worst at staying up if there is an extended break between fights.

Necros and eles can basically both go forever making them still a good choice

Rangers sins and dervs have decent armor and dervs and sins have some additional energy management making them a decent choice.

Mes, Monks, and Rits are the worst classes for ursan with no real advantages over the other primary proffesions.

I never ursan anyway but its pretty much common sense as to which are the best with it.

07/08/08 03:12

RazoMoto

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

Necromancer or Elementalist at first sight,

I play Ursan on my necromancer (R9) and i like it, i started using it about 2 weeks ago, cause topics like this here made me curious.

I've encountered other ursan's, mostly warriors, although they are good damage absorbers, they really dont have alot of energy and atleast 9 out of the 10 I met really, really don't have any energy management, they run out of energy within a minute, whereas I can just keep playing.
Coupled with a Minion Master Ursan Necro's can just keep it up indefinitely, Soul Reaping really shines out during those moments.

Elementalists also are nice, especially with alot of points in Energy Storage, i personally have not yet seen a single ele being Ursan, so only in theory this applies for me.

That said, with runes, a Zealous weapon to use in combat, alot of things can change, even with said paragon skills, we'll see what tricks reveal themselves as the topic continues, i haven't played more then an hour on a paragon, so i can't really help with the shouts or echo's.

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07/08/08 06:13

johny bravo

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

IMO

Warriors are better in areas with really high damage as the extra armor takes pressure off the monks

Necros are the best if you want to keep pushing as they never have any down time. I could do the whole Fow clear without ever dropping our of Ursan.

I play a N/P speced in SR, Motovation, and command. If I am in a team that understands what they are doing I run a few echos that can be maintained using ursan roar also.

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07/08/08 08:14

johny bravo

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

Edited - Double Post

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

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07/08/08 08:14

CorruptNinja

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

Works well with a paragon too, with leadership and the +1 energy for each ally affected by the shout or whatever it is.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

07/08/08 09:23

Zoaka Ewon

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

When thinking about all these factors, what does the community think would be the best proffesion to Ursan with?

Sigh, Warrior. They absorb physical damage like its no body's business and A Zealous Weapon makes you never run out of ursan power!

I have to agree with this. A warrior using a zealous weapon can keep Ursan up for an entire run. I have done several DoA runs where I have maintained Ursan on my warrior for the full 2 1/2 hour run. The only reason it would go down is if people want to take a break.

That being said, why bother going necro or paragon for the energy gain? You can already maintain Ursan on a warrior so you don't need to sacrifice the armor.

In the end it just comes down to what your main is. Ursan is powerful and easy to use so you don't need a 'best' profession for it.

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07/08/08 09:33

DarkNshY

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

Ursanway HA dist 1 international now! (joke)

Ontopic,

text

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07/08/08 10:17

Bubbada Muse

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

i agree with ED that the dual purpose that a caster can utilize can be a pretty good reason to use a caster ursan. i have done runs where i was ursan on my ele but i also bring glyph of sac, meteor shower, rebirth and other stuff to make a full bar minus an elite. i can if need be run away and ninja almost everyone on the team if things get really bad (which on some teams is more like the rule than the exception). it also comes in handy in areas where more aoe is needed then ursan can dish out. i can use totem, switch to my staff which is set up with high energy and nuke the hell out of important targets that the ursans couldnt get down for whatever reason.

07/08/08 11:55

HackingHippie89

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

When thinking about all these factors, what does the community think would be the best proffesion to Ursan with?

Sigh, Warrior. They absorb physical damage like its no body's business and A Zealous Weapon makes you never run out of ursan power!

How exactly is an 80 armor paragon sacrificing armor when warrior is 80 armor as well

Look at it this way,
W/P
Ursan Blessing, Summon Ruby Djinn, Bladeturn Refrain, "Never Surrender!", Mending Refrain, Sprint, Sunspear Rebirth Signet, Resurrection Signet
12 Command
13 Strength
8 Motivation

80 base armor
16 from shield(st or comm)
20 from ursan(assuming max)
34(vs phys) from bladeturn
10 (vs phys) stalwart insig OR 20(vs ele) from sentinels

160(vs phys) 116(vs any)

P/*
Ursan Blessing, Summon Ruby Djinn, Bladeturn Refrain, Burning Refrain, Mending Refrain, Hasty Refrain, Sunspear Rebirth Signet, Resurrection Signet
14 command
12 leadership
8 motivation

80 base armor
16 from shield
20 from ursan
38(vs phys) from bladeturn
10 from centurions

164(vs phys)
126(vs any)

not only do paragons out-armor warriors in both phys and any dmg(not including shield swaps for different areas, adding +10 more armor) but they also can maintain a 25% speed boost, and cause burning frequently thus putting out a much higer damage output

nuff said, paras win

07/08/08 12:15

mwpeck

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RE: Armor concluding with Energy and Ursan...ALL IN ONE THREAD...ZOMG!

QUOTE

Simple.......Look at it this way, warriors can have:

80 base armor
+20 vs physical (its on ALL warrior armor NO MATTER WHAT)
16 from shield(st or comm)
20 from ursan(assuming max)
34(vs phys) from bladeturn
10 (vs phys) stalwart insig OR 20(vs ele) from sentinels

That gives them 80 + 20 + 16 + 20 BASE armor, 136 BASE

Now, add Bladeturn in like you did.

170 vs Physcial, 180 vs physical if they chose stalwart insignia's.

116 vs elemental, 136 vs elemental if they chose sentinels.

That being said, if a warrior wants they can have 6 more armor vs physical and 10 more armor vs elemental, or 16 more armor vs physical and 10 less armor vs elemental.

Learn warrior armor moar!

Of course this is all based off them using the same skills and what not (bladeturn).

One thing to take note of, warriors ALWAYS have 100 armor vs physical with just their armor (excluding shields/weapon mods).

Simply said, in terms of survival, warr wins, not para.....

EDIT: Final armor totals for warrior:

170 vs physical
136 vs elemental

OR

180 vs physical
116 vs elemental

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

Update in whenever I dont feel lazy.

07/08/08 12:33

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