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t00thPIK

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Two Weapon Fighting

Hey ppl... I'm not sure if this is the right area to put this, but ... I'm just curious if we can eventually use two weapon fighting later on in the game? I know that it would probably say somewhere in the manual... but hey, the forum needs the posts right? ;)

I don't see why this isn't possible as Devona uses two weapons in the cinematic guild wars trailer. Anyway I just want to know because if we can use two weapons then that's definately my fighting style ^_^

- PIK

"The Charr are a scourge of evil upon the lands of Ascalon... The Audacitarians shall clense these lands, and all shall be good... Then we shall meet at the tavern for a drink or 50 - HUZZAH!!"

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05/15/05 23:24

Hero_Amun_Ra

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Using 2 swords is definatly a plus for becomming a warrior. It look kewl when you have 2 katana shaped swords in your hand. Maybe you can buy special swords that you can put on the shield spot later in the game.

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05/16/05 04:26

Brutal_Mauler

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

There is no duel wielding weapons in the game. It would be quite cool to see them implement this is later expansions, but as of right now there is no duel wielding.

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05/16/05 10:42

t00thPIK

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Yeah... i thought this was the case. A little dissapointing, especially when Devona uses two swords in the cinematic trailer. Oh well, as Brutal_Mauler said; theres always the expansions ;)

- PIK

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

05/17/05 17:39

Nogame

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

The warrior may be doomed for tankage forever...

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05/18/05 07:21

t00thPIK

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

haha! sad but so very true ;)

- PIK

05/18/05 17:06

Living__god

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

That would be so kewl to kill annoying mobs with two weapons.

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06/08/05 13:28

Swamp_Fox

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

the main problem with duel qielding would be that it would make hammers worthless. a warrior could have a combiniation of swords/axes or 1 hammer, which would would disrupt the balance in the weapon skills. Also duel wielding would make warriors overpowered (even though they already are). it would make solo of the underworld alot easier, which atm im trying to find a way to do so

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06/08/05 13:59

Desdemona

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

QUOTE

Not necessarily. The GW staff would need to find a way to balance out dual wielding, but off the top of my head I can think of several options to do so. As long as the staff goes to the effort to balance out dual wielding with the other attack types it shouldn't have a huge impact in the game.

06/08/05 14:47

Swamp_Fox

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

QUOTE

ok, to even it out they have 2 options.make duel wielding suck (since hammers kinda do). make it an attribute, which would suck most likly since 1 for the weapon skill (maybe 2) and 1 for duel wielding and that would be all points(if you were doing 3 attributes at 10 each). the other way would be to mkae hammers better, but that would make warriors the best class. and then they would have to do alot of work fixing up every class. and i think it isn't that much of an improvement, but we'll see as tiem goes by

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06/08/05 15:11

shadowwraith

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Simple - make the offhand weapon swing at a penalty, or both for that matter. So you're still increasing damage, but not so much as to overpower the other weapons. Hammers don't really suck, they're just not widely used - but they could use some more skills. They swing a little less than 1/2 a second slower than a sword or axe, but do much more damage, and have all the knockdown skills, which are awesome, especially in PvP. Second, tanks will still want to use a single weapon with a shield, where as more offense oriented warriors can elect dual wield or hammer.

Maybe they could even make the attacks slower, so that you're getting two swings in 2 seconds vs. one in 1.33s with a sword/axe or one in 1.75s with a hammer. You could have a lower hit percentage with your offhand weapon even, giving you the potential for more damage than the hammer, but also the potential to do less, but never less than one weapon would.

There's lots of ways they could balance it. I don't really see a need for it other than the "cool" factor. I'd rather see hammers beefed up with more unique skills.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

06/08/05 15:42

Swamp_Fox

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

QUOTE

if you really want to put the hurtin' on as a warrior you'll swing a hammer. It does more damage at once, as well as over time.

not exactly. if you are a warrior elementalist (major damage). you should use air attribute and then you could use

shocking sword hilt
conjure lightning
+shock/gale

-it has a knockdowns at like 5 energy each (one adds 40damage, have done 80 to warriors in pvp with it)

-more damage against other warriors in pvp.(uses them like a lightning rod! {have hit for 40regular and the conjure did an additional 40}

-and it also has the +13damage from conjure lightning.

and as you said swords attack faster then axes, so it would do more damage on a sword.

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06/08/05 15:48

shadowwraith

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Damnit SwampFox, quit insta-posting me! I already edited that part out. :P I was speaking purely in terms of base damage, not including skills. Then, looking over the skills, I realized there's not much there for hammer, so I removed it.

06/08/05 15:55

Swamp_Fox

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

QUOTE

sorry lol, school is out (ended monday) so i really have nothing to do besides sit with gw minimized and wait for someone to post lol. was about to go on and say that you could also do a frenzy/other ahste and then be doing 120+ every 0.9sec or so lol

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06/08/05 15:59

shadowwraith

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Well, you still have to consider that you can do the same thing with a hammer, and therefore still be doing more damage than a sword... Shocking Hammer Haft + Conjure Lightning, ya know?

06/08/05 16:02

Swamp_Fox

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

hmmm they could always make 1h hammers that could be duel wielded that do near the same as a sword/axe. and would still be able to do knockdown.

if they did that i would definatly switch to hammers lol

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06/08/05 16:05

Desdemona

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

My other thought is that instead of tweaking the swing time for the weapons, they could make a new class of weapons to dual wield. If you made them just have lower damage that would even things out as well. Plus I'd be happy to see even more pretty swords (not that I can use them, but let me drool happily).

06/09/05 13:00

shadowwraith

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Well, if you were going to make it somewhat realistic, florentine fighters don't swing dual longswords - that'd be near impossible, especially at the time. A four pound longsword by today's standards is still heavy to swing around for any amount of time... back then they weighed nearly twice as much, if not more. Infact, most "longswords" are really hand-and-a-half swords, more commonly known as bastard swords, and were most often swung with a supporting hand. What we usually see in fantasy games is closer to a "short sword" (which, back then, was just a "sword").

Classic dual wielding was usually a rapier and a dagger-type for the off-hand, of which the latter was used in lieu of a shield but mostly for the same purpose of blocking attacks (or to be exact, parrying). A dagger is much easier to swing around than a heavy shield, and in the times of florentine fighting it was all about finesse rather than brute force.

Speaking of this, it's funny they didn't incorporate anything like daggers into the game - and for that matter, a thief-type class. That's something I'd like to see in the future. There's just nothing like dual-dagger backstabbing someone for 4x damage. :)

06/09/05 14:51

t00thPIK

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Hey ppl, I’m back :P

I haven’t read every post on this page, but I did have time to read the last one and I’m going to comment on the lack of a thief (or rogue as they should really be called) class. First of all I'm just going to say that I was just as disappointed as the next rogue fan when it came to the lack of that class in this game because I’m a huge fan of them myself. In fact every chance I get to be a rogue in a game, I’m there. It’s just my… style. When I first found out about Guild Wars and was checking out the professions for the first time I scrolled through them all looking for a rogue profession before I read ANY of the other classes! Let me tell you that, at the time, I was more than a little disappointed to discover that the only mainstream free-to-play MMO out there didn’t have my favourite class! I play every stealth game worth its salt, eg: Splinter Cell, the Thief games (although Deadly Shadows is the best of the series IMO) and I love them, so I would’ve really LOVED to have a stealth class in the game, at the time I would have anyway. It was only when I learned of the game play style ArenaNet was aiming for that I realised a stealth class wouldn’t work.

I think the main reason this class/profession was left out is due to the fact that the focus of GW is on combat for now, which is basically what the game is about: speedy, fast paced combat. I know all you rogue buffs out there are probably saying "yeah, but that’s what rogues/thieves are all about" i.e. they're dexterous/agile and fast. Well this is true, but you know that if they put a rogue in the game that was just a lower damage, but faster hitting fighter then you'd have the other side of the populous who like the rogue’s stealth abilities feeling left out. Stealth doesn't really fit in with GW's style of play.

When it comes down to it, I couldn't care less either way. I love the stealth side of the rogue and I love the agile fighting style of the rogue. But I can also see how a stealth based class would ultimately fail and get left out in the current game play style of GW. If ArenaNet released an expansion that revolved around an underdark typed setting with lots of dark areas and made a more stealth orientated set of quests then the stealthy rogue would really come into its own.

The daggers however are something that is a big question. The daggers could’ve been used by the Ranger who would suit the speedy, less damage melee combat style perfectly; it would make for a, dare I say it, more Legolas-ish style of class. They’ve already got the elvish influence there with the hairstyles and “cat-like” grace of the Ranger, why not finish the job?

I think ArenaNet should look into more ideas like this as it would be a major improvement to the GW experience and offer an even wider and more diverse range of game play styles for GW fans.

- PIK

Hmm, I really need to update Romans level :P

06/11/05 03:47

Swamp_Fox

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

here are a few reasons they probably didn't make a rogue/thief class

QUOTE

WThere's just nothing like dual-dagger backstabbing someone for 4x damage. :)

-solo: there would be really no way to solo with a rogue or thief using backstab, since the mob would face you all times (unless a henchy group maybe)

-group: the battles end so fast anyway it would be hard to move your rogue behind a mob ot backstab it before it was dead.

-loot: i would logically think that a rogue/thief would steal.
they would need to find a way to incorperate that into the looting system (Which could be a group detour)

-duel wielding daggers: if you were duel wielding a light fast weapon, they would obviosly have elementalist as secondary for a conjure spell. they would need to make it so that you cant backstab with elemental damage (claim not stealthy) since it would disrupt class balance

but other then that i think its a great idea, they need more classes, esspecially melee

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06/11/05 05:34

Soni

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Back to the two - weapon thing, wouldnt it be easier to not change the speed of the attack, but mabey have a big miss chance with the left hand weapon and a miss chance with the right hand, not as big as left hand but bigger than normal. This seems more realistic than being slower, i imagine that you could swing two swords just as fast as one and a shield but it would be harder to hit for many reasons. e.g. haveing to make sure the other sword doesnt hit yourself

oh, and rouge could be a spesificly two-weapon useinf class with a two weapon skill that increces damage/reduces accuracy penalty. all the other classes would have to deal with the missing :p

Possible rouge skills: 2 weapon fighting, steal, agility (increses dodge rate/hit rate and so on) and mabey something that makes more things appear when you search wreckages

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

06/12/05 04:17

Desdemona

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

QUOTE

...i imagine that you could swing two swords just as fast as one and a shield but it would be harder to hit for many reasons....

Not for any duration of time, swords are heavy. Whether or not it would be harder to hit the enemy than with a single sword depends on how efficient you are with your sword use. Unless you slow down your swings so that the two swords work together to hit every time you'll just be swinging at the air, wasting energy, and leaving yourself open to counter attack.

Rogues/thieves tend to be problematic in MMO's as far as I can tell. Any kind of ability that increases item drops (either in rarity, quantity, etc) tends to unbalance the game in a hurry. Sneaking around in the shadows has no place in the current game (although it would be a fun expansion, I agree). Backstabbing wouldn't be such an amazing thing in this game either, I suspect it would look a lot like the warrior skills (although I'd have to look at them more closely to tell for sure).

06/13/05 13:27

Leia_Rynaes

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

Well in most RPGs (including the limited MMOs that support it) - dual weapon fighting is usually compensated with certain things - like REALLY high attacks with two weapons take all your energy/adrenaline, and you can only only perform them while having two weappns of the same type.
Also only certain types of weapons are fully "usable" for certain classes - glaives for heavy warriors, daggers for rangers, clubs for etc etc etc
Also having two weapons - they are usually lighter and do not do as much damage, but attack slightly faster, so you would usually have to "level up" a certain skill to weild them, or are only able to to weild them after a certain level...
That could be interesting?

07/11/05 20:43

Swamp_Fox

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

as i mentioned earlier. 2 weapon fighting would be too good even if you made the weaponds deal 0 damage. if u had 2 weapons and used this

Conjure Lightning
Lose all enchantments. For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a lightning weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 1-13 lightning damage.

it would be 26 damage without anything in a skill lol. and it deals more to wars, as lighting rods.

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07/11/05 21:52

Peter_Whatshername

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

2 weapon fighting....they had that in everquest...everyone did it. funnt to see little wood elves runnign around duel weilding 2 giagantic axes twice their size....

someone up above mentioned something about fighters using a secondary dagger as a defensive weapon...what if they made a special class of weapons that went in the shield slot and had shield like armour (not as much) but occassionaly hit for some damage.

anyway, on another note...swords are heavy...i can barley swing mine around at all for any given length of time, and thats just 1 sword...2 is crazy...almost killed myself

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07/11/05 23:08

Sonju

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

ooooo how about thisd istead of 2 weapons a staff life weapon with an axe head sword head or hammer at the end of each slower atck but attacks ttwice with skills but of coursse you'd need to make this weapon uber rare and have it only in regular and not allow attachments ^_^ that would be better than 2 weapons

07/16/05 19:51

Leia_Rynaes

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

As I said above - using a glaive or a poleaxe would be a nice two handed weapon, IMO better than dual weilding and is still only working like a hammer except bigger, it would have to have longer range though, maybe slightly longer than a sword but not so much that you cant get attacked while using it as everyone would exploit that...

07/24/05 16:42

Swamp_Fox

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

QUOTE

maybe slightly longer than a sword but not so much that you cant get attacked while using it as everyone would exploit that...

hmm you could always ahve it longer, but be more of an assist weapon. like you wouldn't get hit with area physical attacks like cyclone axe (hits area around user) you would have to use a direct attack for the wielder of a longer weapon

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07/24/05 16:51

Audreanii_Alkazan

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Re: Two Weapon Fighting

World of Warcraft has duel wielding. but it's stupid and cartoony and all for losers.

07/25/05 21:02

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